Mega Thread The Adam Goodes Megathread - Now with Added Poll!

[momentbymoment]

Even after he did make a stand and accepted AOTY he still wasn't booed to this aggressive extent. Hawks fans booed him in the GF and then round 8. There was nothing hysterical in between.
So clearly these boo's since round 8 has nothing to do with his speech.
Try working out the real reason these boo's are happening.

Well let's look at the consequence of what has happened.

Adam has avoided the media all year and the club has had a policy of not speaking out about the issue (until now). So the booing has 'shut him up'.

Also, no aboriginal player will dare speak up in the future so it has succeeded in silencing the message.

All eyes will now turn to the Geelong Football Club.

 

[Whiskers]

The booing and backlash against him started after the incident with the girl , it is racist . People don't like being supposedly told what to do , I've seen many racist comments on sites too , such as people defending about why they should be allowed to call him an ape . The booing started out as racial it has now grown and become racial and a it thing for mindless idiots to do

No it didn't. That incident was 2013 and he hasn't been booed to this extent for 2 years.
It only reached epic proportions from round 8.
Sure there was normal level boo's before but nothing like it is now.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Just querying what separates Goodes from a Thomas or Lumumba case? Both players belong to racial minorities and both have been polarising in quite different ways - Thomas has often been labelled (and perhaps rightly so?) as a dirty player and Lumumba has done some relatively polarizing things outside of the footballing community (in a similar vein to Goodes' behaviour, socially outspoken and racially progressive) - yet both have, despite their skin colour - escaped the same vicious and sustained 'booing' campaigns that Goodes has faced in recent months. If the footballing community is racist, wouldn't both Thomas and Lumumba have received the same, sustained treatment under a similar pretence - that they aren't being racially abused but are being booed for their 'dirty tactics' or 'campaigner attitude'. I'm not so much trying to defend the people who boo as I am trying to ask an honest question because its the one thing I can't quite reconcile in this debate (its really the only thing that is holding me back from firmly labelling the boos as racist). If someone could provide a legitimate answer I would be very appreciative!

Waleed Aly stated after Goodes did the Aboriginal war dance back in June.

"There is no mystery about this at all," he said. "And it's not as simple as it being about race, it's about something else. It's about the fact that Australia is generally a very tolerant society until its minorities demonstrate that they don't know their place. And at that moment, the minute someone in a minority position acts as though they're not a mere supplicant, then we lose our minds. And we say, 'No, no, you've got to get back in your box here'."

 

[momentbymoment]

His community are not enjoying the privilege of living in a Bondi penthouse

His words are as shallow as A Mundine

I see.
Because he is successful he is not allowed to speak up for his community?

Do you enforce the same standards for Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt and other conservative commentators?

Alan for example is an extremely rich white man who has no qualms telling the aboriginal community what to think.

 

[nickrebellious]

Dirty, staging player that has won a premiership against my team. I'd boo a purple dishwasher if it fit that criteria.

Just needs to stop sooking.

 

[DrEvil_]

Less advanced?

The aboriginal community lived successfully and sustainably on this continent for over 50,000 years. We will be lucky to last this century with the way we are destroying the planets Eco system.

There is an enormous amount of wisdom within the indigenous peoples of the world and western leaders are now seeking out that knowledge. I hope they are more respectful of us than we are of them.

Let's not fantasize about the 'traditional way of life' here. It is filled with violence towards women, tribal warfare, diseases, and harsh living conditions. The indictment on the current government is that things haven't gotten much better, and our PM views these as 'lifestyle choices'. But seeing traditional aboriginal life through rose-colour glasses isn't going to close the gap in indigenous disadvantages.

 

[Whiskers]

Well let's look at the consequence of what has happened.

Adam has avoided the media all year and the club has had a policy of not speaking out about the issue (until now). So the booing has 'shut him up'.

Also, no aboriginal player will dare speak up in the future so it has succeeded in silencing the message.

All eyes will now turn to the Geelong Football Club.

Adam hasn't avoided the media all year. I remember him being asked questions after the Hawks game.
Goodes didn't suggest it was racist, he said he didn't know. Mark Robinson came up with the racist angle (great story) even though that originally wasn't the case.
Now there is an element of race involved in the booing, Goodes has now taken the it's racist to boo me stance.
The perfect storm created by journalists who are now getting their articles read.

And yes if Goodes plays us we will get labelled as racists.
I won't join in the booing, it is OTT but you can't stop a crowd.
Our club will come out of this looking pretty bad, than its St Kilda's turn later on.
I'm dreading it.

 

[DesertRoo]

If footy fans are so racist then why doesn't Bachar Houli, who has publicly spoken about Muslim issues and is a role model in that community, get booed mercilessly?

Um, because a Muslim is not classified as a race.

 

[momentbymoment]

Let's not fantasize about the 'traditional way of life' here. It is filled with violence towards women, tribal warfare, diseases, and harsh living conditions. The indictment on the current government is that things haven't gotten much better, and our PM views these as 'lifestyle choices'. But seeing traditional aboriginal life through rose-colour glasses isn't going to close the gap in indigenous disadvantages.

I used precise words. I said they lived successfully and sustainably. I never said they were perfect.

My point is mainly about sustainability. This is a huge issue for western societies and indigenous wisdom may provide part of the solution.

 

[momentbymoment]

Adam hasn't avoided the media all year. I remember him being asked questions after the Hawks game.
Goodes didn't suggest it was racist, he said he didn't know. Mark Robinson came up with the racist angle (great story) even though that originally wasn't the case.
Now there is an element of race involved in the booing, Goodes has now taken the it's racist to boo me stance.
The perfect storm created by journalists who are now getting their articles read.

And yes if Goodes plays us we will get labelled as racists.
I won't join in the booing, it is OTT but you can't stop a crowd.
Our club will come out of this looking pretty bad, than its St Kilda's turn later on.
I'm dreading it.

I'm not so sure.

From this point on booing AG will be universally classified as racist, so every fan has an opportunity to make a stand.

I think Geelong will stand up and show what a champion club they are.

 

[DesertRoo]

Waleed Aly stated after Goodes did the Aboriginal war dance back in June.

"There is no mystery about this at all," he said. "And it's not as simple as it being about race, it's about something else. It's about the fact that Australia is generally a very tolerant society until its minorities demonstrate that they don't know their place. And at that moment, the minute someone in a minority position acts as though they're not a mere supplicant, then we lose our minds. And we say, 'No, no, you've got to get back in your box here'."

That really doesn't explain why Goodes is booed and Lumumba isn't now does it.

Actually brings up more questions, Lumumba probably has been more outspoken in the Melbourne media.

So why is Goodes routinely booed?

 

[DrEvil_]

I used precise words. I said they lived successfully and sustainably. I never said they were perfect.

My point is mainly about sustainability. This is a huge issue for western societies and indigenous wisdom may provide part of the solution.

How would you define successfully and sustainably? Would you classify living without modern health care to be successful and sustainable?

 

[DrEvil_]

That really doesn't explain why Goodes is booed and Lumumba isn't now does it.

Actually brings up more questions, Lumumba probably has been more outspoken in the Melbourne media.

So why is Goodes routinely booed?

You can't boo The Prince, for he will have the last laugh.

 

[melbournehammer]

Even after he did make a stand and accepted AOTY he still wasn't booed to this aggressive extent. Hawks fans booed him in the GF and then round 8. There was nothing hysterical in between.
So clearly these boo's since round 8 has nothing to do with his speech.
Try working out the real reason these boo's are happening.

I'm bored with this discussion and, in particular the inability of people to deal with facts at their fingertips - but why don't you google jake niall Adam Goodes May 2014 and see how you go

Afterwards feel free to think whatever thoughts you want, but don't let the facts get in the way

 

[momentbymoment]

How would you define successfully and sustainably? Would you classify living without modern health care to be successful and sustainable?

I would define it as living for over 50,000 years as a continuous culture.

For me, living with a healthy relationship to the land is more important than medicine or industry or money. Once the oil runs out and climate change has wreaked it's havoc, modern medicine will play a very limited role in the quality of our lives.

 

[Borderline]

Um, because a Muslim is not classified as a race.

So? Muslims can still be discriminated against can't they?

 

[GoldenSky]

As probably the second-biggest booing-gate in Australian sports history, are we forgetting how Michael Clarke was treated by Australian fans over a lengthy period of time?

Was his race the issue? NO.

Was it because, as every media personality who thinks they are clever (but are really quite dim) says, Australians were "uncomfortable about looking in the mirror and confronting race issues"? NO.

Had he done anything in particular to incite such hostility against him? NO.

Was it, most probably, just down to the general feeling certain members of the public had about him at the time? YES.

Was he being booed, not by rival football club members but entire swathes of the country he played for? YES.

Did the booing dissipate over time? YES.

Will simpletons stop to think about this before further inflaming the situation? Of course not. You're in the wrong business if you have a sane, reasoned argument in the media!
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket...he-leads-australia-to-win-20110130-1a9zf.html
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/11/16/the-revival-of-michael-clarke/

 

[DrEvil_]

I would define it as living for over 50,000 years as a continuous culture.

For me, living with a healthy relationship to the land is more important than medicine or industry or money. Once the oil runs out and climate change has wreaked it's havoc, modern medicine will play a very limited role in the quality of our lives.

Maybe you should go live in a remote community for a while, and then decide what is more important. I'd like to see you walk up to a kid going blind with trachoma and tell him his healthy relation with the land is more important.

 

[nineteen eighty]

That really doesn't explain why Goodes is booed and Lumumba isn't now does it.

Actually brings up more questions, Lumumba probably has been more outspoken in the Melbourne media.

So why is Goodes routinely booed?

I must have missed something as I can't remember when Lumumba has challenged Australians on their history. Or on anything. He's tweeted some rubbish that is somewhat self flagellating but I can't remember him being confronting.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Technologically they were far less advanced, which is why they were conquered so easily.

And save your sanctimonious crap for someone else. The arrivals of the aboriginals in Australia resulted in the extinction of countless amounts of animals in this country.

So in reality, the current rate of extinction of animals per head of population worldwide, is less than the extinction rate of Australian animals when the aboriginals arrived in Australia.

Interesting. Can you point me to some facts / research? Not saying you are wrong. Just that I haven't seen anything on that before and would like to come up to speed on the topic.

 

[DrEvil_]

I must have missed something as I can't remember when Lumumba has challenged Australians on their history. Or on anything. He's tweeted some rubbish that is somewhat self flagellating but I can't remember him being confronting.

Lumumba has challenged Australians on their intelligence, multiple times.

 

[DesertRoo]

So? Muslims can still be discriminated against can't they?

Sorry I was probably being a little pedantic but racism and discriminating against a religious group are kind of separate issues.

 

[melbournehammer]

Maybe you should go live in a remote community for a while, and then decide what is more important.

Honestly this sort of ad hominem gets you and us nowhere. Why is it mutually inconsistent to say that white Australia has brought some positives to Australia for its indigenous community as well as negatives ? That's what Goodes says in his speech for crying out loud.

Indigenous culture was sustainable. Elements of indigenous law were brutal (although while spearing was going on we spent a good deal of time hanging people by the neck until they are dead). Their level of development if by development we mean formal education and scientific progress was limited. But anyone who has studied tribal cultures sociologically knows that tribal communities are also very far advanced over western civilisation on the hierarchy of needs for their local area - ask William Buckley if you doubt me.

But clearly western civilisation, and the population of Europe was such that Australia, along with almost all of the rest of the world was going to be conquered.

I don't really see why there is such a debate here though. Maybe Peter garretts song short memory is just a 1980s hit but it broadly shows the devastation to indigenous peoples all over the world from the Wests civilising ways. And sure before that there were also other cultures that had been devastated (there was a reason that the local tribes surrounding the Aztecs were only too willing to help Cortes).

But again I don't see the big issue - Goodes is legitimately raising the impact on his community of the west and saying it hasn't been a bed of roses for 200 years. Why is that so bloody hard for some people to listen to ?

 

[DesertRoo]

I must have missed something as I can't remember when Lumumba has challenged Australians on their history. Or on anything. He's tweeted some rubbish that is somewhat self flagellating but I can't remember him being confronting.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...nation-every-day/story-fni5f6hd-1226653035604

Probably not the best example in the context of current thread but I can't be arsed searching. as I'm about to crash out.

 

[King Frederick]

I must have missed something as I can't remember when Lumumba has challenged Australians on their history. Or on anything. He's tweeted some rubbish that is somewhat self flagellating but I can't remember him being confronting.

He said there was an epidemic of violence against women in Australia.

He put the boot into Eddie. He said casual racism was pervasive in Australia.

The gay innuendo on a Collingwood poster that he found offensive. Had a hissy fit.

The Seedsman lesbian nickname controversy.

Having a meltdown and taking leave for a few days.

Writing a letter to Obama.

Need I go on?