Opinion Adam Goodes

[ImperialPurple]

LOL! Happens in the U.S., too. When I was a full-time newspaper reporter in a couple of cities, after interviewing people on the phone and then meeting them for the first time in person, more than a few times I saw and heard them tell me this, face-to-face:

"Wow. You don't sound black on the phone."

Maybe, because of their limited exposure to African-Americans, they expected me to sound like these guys:

When in reality, I sound more like this guy:

But even sounding like the last guy, I used to get patronizing compliments, like people telling me, "your diction is excellent." As if by being well-spoken, I was defying their expectations.

There was once a time I'd get upset about incidents like that. Now I laugh, realizing it's not my problem — it's the problem of the people who'd make the statements, because they were so limited in their thinking.

I get where you're coming from. I have been told more than once, "gee, I would never have guessed. You don't look like a lesbian." What is exactly does a lesbian look like?

 

[ydraw]

Lindsay Thomas is a better example than Eddie Betts. Even North Melbourne fans will admit he is eminently boo-able.

 

[samFFC]

Well done Richmond.

 

[malpaso]

What is exactly does a lesbian look like?

I'm waiting on some interesting responses to that one.

 

[ImperialPurple]

I'm waiting on some interesting responses to that one.

Hmmm... I hope not.

"What does an African-American sound like?" is rather a similar type of question to "What does a lesbian look like?" so maybe best left alone ...

 

[malpaso]

Hmmm... I hope not.

"What does an African-American sound like?" is rather a similar type of question to "What does a lesbian look like?" so maybe best left alone ...

I think sounding and looking like are two very different things but I understand the point you were making

 

[Mr Fonebone]

The opinion piece on the Goodes saga is written by an Aboriginal. Worth a read:

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html

 

[ImperialPurple]

I think sounding and looking like are two very different things but I understand the point you were making

No I disagree - it's about prejudice based on stereotypes towards minority groups who have traditionally suffered and been discriminated against by society's 'comfortable' majority. But yeah - I also get you were just having a bit of fun... Have another rainbow

 

[ydraw]

The opinion piece on the Goodes saga is written by an Aboriginal. Worth a read:

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html

Black steam train is one of the few conservative aboriginal writers in Australia. He wrote a lot of stuff about the Andrew Bolt saga e.g: http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/success-we-like-it-white.html

Lucky for him he's not more famous, or he'd be vilified by the left just like Noel Pearson is.

 

[rodney hoo]

The opinion piece on the Goodes saga is written by an Aboriginal. Worth a read:

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html

Yes and every one is entitled to there opinions, it's up to the individual to decide what he or she thinks is correct.

 

[Purple Maverick]

I would like to start by prefacing that I am a proud aboriginal man, and I am absolutely furious at WCE to demonstrate such poor behaviour to bring this issue to the fore yet again and make Adam mentally and emotionally unwell. This is such a complex issue, and the issue of people disliking and booing Adam Goodes has not really been unpacked to its entirety, also Adam has not unpacked his controversial previous behaviour to the public. People do not know why he is actually upset?? It's more than just booing. What defines racism?

The only positive of the situation is that we are having the discussion. Adam has agitated the system, questioned the status quo and its now in the public sphere and now people are hopefully becoming educated on the issue.

Adam is an aboriginal man first and a footballer second. He is a minority and he is now subject to mass bullying. Unfortunately when you are aboriginal and you have been subjected to racism you do continue to question your place in society and your own self worth, that is the heart of the effect of racism. He may have achieved great things, but I know there is an underlying feeling of not being accepted in fitting in wide stream society, as gill said there is that institutionalised racism in the western world by being forced to live the western way. And unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, this mass booing/bullying just reinforces that constant battle of an aboriginal man trying to fit into a western world but also trying to bring to the public the importance of indigenous issues.

 

[StingBitten]

There are many posts of this type, and to single out one by means of reply is purely arbitrary. So I'm not speaking specifically to you here, Moose, but rather you as a representative of an ideological bloc.

It is interesting that the proponents of the racism theory throw words like "groupthink" around without really considering that the word might apply to all aspects of this situation.

Here's an article from the AFL site today:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-29/boo-goodes-and-you-show-you-are-a-bigot-says-chris-scott
Chris Scott isn't alone in this line of thought, but he's a fair example of the type of journalism we're becoming quite used to, and now have begun to accept without thought.

In particular:
""Adam has come out and said it is affecting him and he considers it has a racist element to it. On that basis if you go ahead and boo him from now on you're accepting that people are assuming that you are doing it for reasons based on race," Scott said."

And there it is, really. It doesn't matter what you think. The words you use are being co-opted and taken to further a political agenda. I'm not only being told what I'm thinking, but I'm told I should accept it.
Bit of a double whammy, that.
Now, I hope I'm not the only one who finds that just a tad disturbing. But I'm beginning to think, based purely upon the number of likes this line of "thought" is actually getting, that I may be part of a rather distinct minority.

The most philosophically disturbing aspect of this entire situation, to my mind, is that we are being slowly taught not to be human.

Conform.
We Are Borg.




For me, this thread isn't really about Adam Goodes. He's more, at this point in time, merely a focal point.
Furthermore, (and I'm quite aware that this particular point is unprovable and therefore may well be moot) I never actually consciously considered Adam Goodes as an Aboriginal... until I was forced to.
Racism, as an issue, has many aspects, and not of all of them are immediately observable.

The Adam Goodes issue aside, we're being barraged on a daily basis with this kind of "argument": to whit, Your mind is is longer your own. It is what "we" say it is. Disliking Islam is racist. Speaking your mind on immigration issues is "un-Australian". Actually, pretty much whatever you say about anything at all is Un-Australian, recently.

The point of all of this, of course, is to convey the message that any thoughts not in line with current opinion are, in fact, the hallmark of a lesser mind. You are, in fact, being told in no uncertain terms that if you think like this, you are sub-human.

Observe Clogged, in several posts above. His tactic, when condemning those who attempt to portray Adam Goodes as Sub-human, is to employ exactly the same approach.
"I fink his a flog". A deliberate and calculated attempt to portray all of those who do not confirm to the "booing Adam Goodes is Racist" argument to the intellectually sub-human.

I find it somewhat amusing that, in order to reinforce a point regarding the relegation of a man to the subhuman, he confers that exact status upon those he purports to dislike.

Calculated tactic or unthinking abuse, the result is the same. The segregation and ridicule of divergent opinion, rather than rational opposing argument.

I need a beer.

This is the most insightful post I've read on Bigfooty in a while - and unfortunately I don't have the intellectual capacity to break it down and analyse it deeply. It is interesting that in any debate, the antagonists/protagonists always seem to employ similar tactics and methodology in proving their argument to one another; in politics, in social movements (feminism/men's rights, liberalism/conservatism etc) and the Goodes racism/non-Racism debate. Whilst I lean subjectively to the 'it's racism' category I find myself disillusioned with the all-encompassing arguments from a lot of commentators in this country - 'there are no excuses, no arguments and no 'opinions' that can justify your booing'; great, well now there's no need to retort. A + B = C - you are racist if you do this because of that - we the political world are telling you that, we the social justice movement are telling you that, but more importantly we the AFL are telling you that. If you boo Goodes, you're getting into trouble.

This argument is transcending a debate on race - Australia the nation (or arguably, Australia the white nation) struggled to find symbols, totems and authenticity through our formative years (beyond footy, meat pies and ANZAC mythology) and we are looking at clearer ways of defining ourselves. On the one hand this means attributing or 'lumping' certain thought patterns and behaviours into strict subculture structures (us vs them) - on the other hand a more sinister motive is at hand by organisations like the AFL and the Government to order the sheep into the sheeprun of their choosing. In the future there will be no further debates on booing and racism, it will just become a prosecutable offense. 'Groupthink' as law.

 

[salim malik]

Black steam train is one of the few conservative aboriginal writers in Australia. He wrote a lot of stuff about the Andrew Bolt saga e.g: http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/success-we-like-it-white.html

Lucky for him he's not more famous, or he'd be vilified by the left just like Noel Pearson is.

Whats your problem with the left.You do realise that most of the great wars have been the result of a right wing govt .WWI,WW2,Korea,Vietnam and the middle east.
The right sent our boys to be slaughtered at Gallipoli,the Somme .The disaster that was Vietnam.
Extreme right or left are both as bad as one and other.Unfortunately the moderates in the LNP have been silenced by the extreme right of centre loonie's led by Abbott and his cronies.

 

[Mr Fonebone]

Whats your problem with the left.You do realise that most of the great wars have been the result of a right wing govt .WWI,WW2,Korea,Vietnam and the middle east.
The right sent our boys to be slaughtered at Gallipoli,the Somme .The disaster that was Vietnam.
Extreme right or left are both as bad as one and other.Unfortunately the moderates in the LNP have been silenced by the extreme right of centre loonie's led by Abbott and his cronies.

And the moderates of the Labor Party have been overcome by the lunatics of the far left. It cuts both ways.

 

[holy diver]

Two questionable act's on the field of play.

The public now must remain silent on one but okay to boo the other?

This is a complex issue. I know Adam Goodes is not from WA but speaking locally of Western Australia, how many people aware of the WA Aboriginal Act 1905 and it's lasting impact? Whilst I come from a completely different ethnic background I have had an opportunity to listen to many indigenous people - Noonga, Yamatji, Wongi and from the North West through work.
There has been undeniable historical legislated racism in this state. To explore the issue would take a long time other than to say it is sad chapter in British Colonial/Western Australian history and I don't know enough to detail everything. I don't even want to type the usual cliches regarding this other than to say that hopefully time and everyone taking ownership of the challenges we can move ahead on equal standing as it is something Australia needs to come to terms with.

Now, The continual booing of Goodes is a major problem for the league. Telling people that can't boo will not go down well.
Anyone can understand the booing if it's in context to a particular incident on the field. It's been apart of the game forever.

Adam Goodes has acted like a flog on the field - which is frustrating because he is a champion of the game. The issue now is the booing racially motivated, or because of his behaviour, maybe incidents such as the finger point or war dance or just the pack bully mentality of the crowd? No clear answer.

Anyone booing him due to his race can GAGF and be rightly outed for their behaviour but it is absurd to claim that everyone who has booed him for flog behaviour/staging for free kicks are racist is agenda driven nonsense.

Why did the West Coasters boo him continuously? Was there an actual incident in that game?

 

[salim malik]

And the moderates of the Labor Party have been overcome by the lunatics of the far left. It cuts both ways.

If you had read my post I said extremes of both sides are as bad as one and other.The decisions to involve Aust in our conflicts have been made by right wing governments.

 

[clogged]

Why did the West Coasters boo him continuously? Was there an actual incident in that game?

They booed him from the first possession, which was a kick to Sam Reid in the first quarter. Which they jeered because they thought it was a missed shot at goal. Which it wasn't. It was a pass.

 

[ydraw]

Whats your problem with the left.You do realise that most of the great wars have been the result of a right wing govt .WWI,WW2,Korea,Vietnam and the middle east..

The Vietnam war was started by Kennedy, escalated by LBJ and ended by Nixon.

I think you've forgotten how Whitlam came to power in Australia. He disagreed with Calwell about Vietnam (Calwell favoured withdrawal, Whitlam favoured staying in). It triggered a leadership spill that Whitlam won.

Every single war effort had bipartisan support in Australia. The only point of disagreement was conscription, and fair enough too.

 

[ydraw]

They booed him from the first possession, which was a kick to Sam Reid in the first quarter. Which they jeered because they thought it was a missed shot at goal. Which it wasn't. It was a pass.

Maybe they were jeering the decision to pass it to Sam Reid. Is that the percentage option?

 

[Boppo]

It's pretty obvious my now that the booing of Goodes has turned into a monster with significant racial overtones, no matter what the origin.

If anyone boos Goodes from now on then they are nasty campaigners with a significant racial bigotry and self entitlement ingrained.

 

[holy diver]

They booed him from the first possession, which was a kick to Sam Reid in the first quarter. Which they jeered because they thought it was a missed shot at goal. Which it wasn't. It was a pass.

So he didn't stage/dive/flog act??

 

[holy diver]

It's pretty obvious my now that the booing of Goodes has turned into a monster with significant racial overtones, no matter what the origin.

If anyone boos Goodes from now on then they are nasty c@nts with a significant racial bigotry and self entitlement ingrained.

So if Goodes staged for a free kick or got a cheap shot in he now cannot be booed like any other player from now on?

Booing outright for no reason or racism is shameful bullshit but what your saying may be seen as a double standard.

 

[DudleyDocker]

In 470 post on this thread I have not seen one person swayed by the arguments of either side of the debate.

We could have another thousand and I'm sure all we will see is multiple views of a very vexed question repeated ad naseum - with a bit of personal abuse thrown in for good measure.

Is it time for this thread to be closed or moved to "The Purple Hoard" for those who genuinely want to continue?

 

[clogged]

So he didn't stage/dive/flog act??

Nup. Had done nothing objectionable up until that point.

The only conclusion is that some people went to that game with the intention to boo him. Why?

 

[ydraw]

Why did the West Coasters boo him continuously? Was there an actual incident in that game?

Booing is pretty standard at every West Coast game. The only question is who to boo. On this occasion I guess it wasn't a tough decision since there's already been so much in the media about it.

West Coast crowds have been feral for a fair while now. Teams have commented on it previously this year, even before this incident.

A bit of background in this article: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...oing-adam-goodes/story-fni5faul-1227458311842

In 2011 former Swan Barry Hall also singled out Eagles fans.

“I hate West Coast fans and I’ll put that out there,” Hall said.

“They’re very different ... they’re very passionate, they’re very one-eyed, very brutal,” Hall said.

“Most clubs have got these pockets (of unruly fans) but they’re all like that (at Eagles home games)

When even Barry Hall says you're being uncouth you probably have issues.