Luke Sayers - PWC Scandal

[Taylor]

It's theft on a grand scale but because people who don't wear suits it's all ok.

Some poor sod takes a few hundred from cennos or underpays child support and the state crack down on them

Then we have a bloke line albo parading around pretending he stands for "Labor values".

Everyone accepts corporate theft as "good on em for being smart".

It's a ridiculous culture.

You only need to look at where money is made in things like stock market investment to see that there is a clear distinction between regular people and "sophisticated" people.

And you're not in the club, but it's for YOUR protection that you can't access the sort of returns the people with sufficient existing resources can.

It's literally the power of the state used to keep their access to investment opportunities open so that when it opens for the regular people it's already gone up it's 25% and they sell it to you. You hold the tulips and they move onto the next deal.

 

[Toump Ass]

Everyone accepts corporate theft as "good on em for being smart".

It's so dumb.

Like what the f is wrong with these people? Your mobile telco, energy retailer, phone and laptop manufacturer (who use technology originating from the public sector)... they stash billions into tax havens and give back nothing, yet people crack the shits over a bunch of deros who don't fulfil their job search requirements for $100 a fortnight

 

[kaiserchief13]

Is what he's done illegal or simply unethical?

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Is what he's done illegal or simply unethical?

Potentially both, but definitely the latter.

 

[Taylor]

It's so dumb.

Like what the f is wrong with these people? Your mobile telco, energy retailer, phone and laptop manufacturer (who use technology originating from the public sector)... they stash billions into tax havens and give back nothing, yet people crack the shits over a bunch of deros who don't fulfil their job search requirements for $100 a fortnight

You're comparing a circumstance there where the nation moves backwards financially to one where the nation moves forward but not as forward as it should. That's where the difference would be.

A company employing people who pay their income tax, the sales related taxes etc contribute something - even if there should be more of it.

People get upset when they think they are working infinitely more than someone who lives on a marginally lesser lifestyle.

It's actually part of the keep the poors fighting between ourselves game plan. And we are all poor.

 

[Taylor]

Is what he's done illegal or simply unethical?

Allegations of profiting off information he had signed a non disclosure agreement over.

 

[RightYouAreThen]

Is what he's done illegal or simply unethical?

Illegal. Commonweath Law = AFP = Jail

 

[Warhorse]

You only need to look at where money is made in things like stock market investment to see that there is a clear distinction between regular people and "sophisticated" people.

And you're not in the club, but it's for YOUR protection that you can't access the sort of returns the people with sufficient existing resources can.

It's literally the power of the state used to keep their access to investment opportunities open so that when it opens for the regular people it's already gone up it's 25% and they sell it to you. You hold the tulips and they move onto the next deal.

The general public are just exit liquidity for the rich

 

[Taylor]

The general public are just exit liquidity for the rich

Correct. It's why cryptocurency needed to be centralised and regulated, for your safety. Only the approved criminals should be allowed to make money off that.

 

[moses]

So are PWC getting nicknamed "Privileged White-collar Criminals" or "Piss Weak Campaigners"?

 

[RightYouAreThen]

So are PWC getting nicknamed "Privileged White-collar Criminals" or "Piss Weak Campaigners"?

Proprietary (but) With Conditions

 

[StillAtLarge]

Policies We'll Circumvent

 

[Donakebab]

Just revealed in Senate Estimates that the Reserve bank has underpaid its staff, so of course it hired PwC and paid them over half a million to conduct an audit.

You can't make this s**t up.

 

[Belnakor]

Just revealed in Senate Estimates that the Reserve bank has underpaid its staff, so of course it hired PwC and paid them over half a million to conduct an audit.

You can't make this s**t up.

Getting a third party in to verify underpayments is very standard and should be expected.

• the EBAs are notoriously complex to calculate people's earnings
• you can't police yourself "we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong"
• You can't just give half a mill to random people and hope it all works out.

 

[Belnakor]

Is what he's done illegal or simply unethical?

to be clear thats Collins the PWC Partner not Sayers.

As far as we are aware Sayers was not named in any emails (it would be highly unlikely to include the CEO in those kind of discussions).

You might claim that Sayers "should have known" but its a fairly long bow imo.

Also this isn't a governance failure - this is a classic ethics failure. Collins had signed a personal NDA. He knew he was breaking it. You can have all the governance in the world but if people just ignore it then it doesn't work.

 

[Mofra]

Ok so they lose a big customer, so they lay off low staff/middle management in short term to save $$, do some “governance reviews”, and re-enter big contracts in 3-4 years, especially as all their former partners have a self-interest in PWC succeeding.

No?

It's an industry in which reputation and 'name' is everything.

I think this is more Arthur Anderson than it is NAB/Austrac.

They will effectively be black-billed for the length of the ALP Federal tenure. You don't embarrass a Minister or Department and have it forgotten in a hurry.

 

[Satan]

Getting a third party in to verify underpayments is very standard and should be expected.

• 
  
• you can't police yourself "we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong" Sounds like the AFL

 

[Mofra]

Breaking from Senate Estimates: _Treasury’s internal auditors are … PwC. Of course they are. $985k contract. So a firm embroiled in a governance scandal involving confidential Treasury information is providing advice to Treasury on governance. We are through the looking glass.

I wonder if there are lawyers preparing contact termination clauses as we speak

 

[Belnakor]

It's an industry in which reputation and 'name' is everything.

I think this is more Arthur Anderson than it is NAB/Austrac.

They will effectively be black-billed for the length of the ALP Federal tenure. You don't embarrass a Minister or Department and have it forgotten in a hurry.

i mean when he says a "big customer" last time i checked PWC is like 30-40% government work. They are hugely dominant in that space its their core business. Alot of their partners are government focused, only have government contacts etc. They are basically ****ed they just don't want to admit it yet. They've tried a light sacrifice with standing down some partners but i suspect they will need to put together a more compelling blood sacrifice.

Bad thing for the partners involved is they aren't even employees, the firm partnership can just meet and throw them out of the partnership.

 

[big_e]

last time i checked PWC is like 30-40% government work.

That's quite an extraordinary statement, when you think about it.

I can understand governments buying stuff from outside companies - governments can't make computers, warplanes, photocopiers, etc - but much of what the consulting agencies do is replicating what could be done in-house. Or at the very least, by another department.

The RBA underpayment issue, for instance, could quite easily be done by the federal auditor-general's department.

 

[Satan]

That's quite an extraordinary statement, when you think about it.

I can understand governments buying stuff from outside companies - governments can't make computers, warplanes, photocopiers, etc - but much of what the consulting agencies do is replicating what could be done in-house. Or at the very least, by another department.

The RBA underpayment issue, for instance, could quite easily be done by the federal auditor-general's department.

Who audits the auditors?

 

[Belnakor]

That's quite an extraordinary statement, when you think about it.

I can understand governments buying stuff from outside companies - governments can't make computers, warplanes, photocopiers, etc - but much of what the consulting agencies do is replicating what could be done in-house. Or at the very least, by another department.

The RBA underpayment issue, for instance, could quite easily be done by the federal auditor-general's department.

Its the same world wide tbh. Government have poor quality staff for a variety of reasons. Consulting firms have good staff for a variety of reasons. The solution isn't to just hire more public servants.

i think the feds should be in at PWC right now going through all their books, giving them a thorough examination - but they don't have the balls/abillity/manpower/willpower to do so.

 

[Taylor]

That's quite an extraordinary statement, when you think about it.

I can understand governments buying stuff from outside companies - governments can't make computers, warplanes, photocopiers, etc - but much of what the consulting agencies do is replicating what could be done in-house. Or at the very least, by another department.

The RBA underpayment issue, for instance, could quite easily be done by the federal auditor-general's department.

Consider that if a government agency or department was responsible for something like that there would be a minister in control of it who would be held ultimately responsible for the actions of the department.

... do I need to keep explaining?

This is a way for the work to be done and if it's not done to a standard then the nation is upset together at them instead of it becoming something that the government of they day is blamed for.

 

[RightYouAreThen]

Who audits the auditors?

This is an issue. Unlike many revenue authorities in other countries, ATO do not have criminal investigative powers - hence referral to AFP.

 

[Satan]

This is an issue. Unlike many revenue authorities in other countries, ATO do not have criminal investigative powers - hence referral to AFP.

The afp seems to be in a world of pain based on the lehremann inquiry