North Melbourne v West Coast.. who will be better in 2024?

[Shueygod]

Backline- eagles
Midfield- Roos
Forwardline- Roos
Roos will be better unless the defence is incapable which it shouldn’t

Forward line Roos

 

[the big lebowski]

Forward line Roos

Allen
Darling* old
Cripps* old
Ryan - serious hammies back to back
Reid
Maric
Not sure who I’m missing

vs

Larkey
Zuhaar
Curtis (should have kicked 5 in a qrt against your mob)
Ford
George
Dursma
Sheezel
Thomas*
Stephenson (would have been your equal second highest goal kicker last year as he was ours)
Comben* if not only because I refuse to write CCJ

Edit- plus Simpkin will probably rotate forward more this year. Could easily kick 20-25 goals.

 

[stallon]

Allen
Darling* old
Cripps* old
Ryan - serious hammies back to back
Reid
Maric
Not sure who I’m missing

vs

Larkey
Zuhaar
Curtis (should have kicked 5 in a qrt against your mob)
Ford
George
Dursma
Sheezel
Thomas*
Stephenson (would have been your equal second highest goal kicker last year as he was ours)
Comben* if not only because I refuse to write CCJ

Edit- plus Simpkin will probably rotate forward more this year. Could easily kick 20-25 goals.

Allen = Larkey
Darling = ???(north have nobody here)
Cripps = Zurhaar
Ryan = Thomas(both have issues, both are very skilled)
Long = Sheezel (sheezel being overrated as a seagull at HB doesnt mean much if hes playing forward half)
B.Williams(ruck/fwd) > ccj/comben doesnt matter they dont come close
Brockman = whichever is your best small forward, Curtis maybe idk

Old isnt a reason to discount players lmao this thread isnt comparing forward lines in 3 years time, its comparing right now, this year. Darling and Cripps are still here, and theyre not that old.
George and Duursma havent played a game, I dont know why you listed so many North players, you can only bring 7-8 forwards at most into any particular game
Simpkin rotating forward doesnt mean much either, a lot of mids do that. Kelly sits forward when having a rest sometimes too but we dont count him as a forward. Very optimistic to think Simpkin will go 20+ goals. If he plays as an actual forward, he is replacing one of the other guys you listed

 

[the big lebowski]

Allen = Larkey
Darling = ???(north have nobody here)
Cripps = Zurhaar
Ryan = Thomas(both have issues, both are very skilled)
Long = Sheezel (sheezel being overrated as a seagull at HB doesnt mean much if hes playing forward half)
B.Williams(ruck/fwd) > ccj/comben doesnt matter they dont come close
Brockman = whichever is your best small forward, Curtis maybe idk

Old isnt a reason to discount players lmao this thread isnt comparing forward lines in 3 years time, its comparing right now, this year. Darling and Cripps are still here, and theyre not that old.
George and Duursma havent played a game, I dont know why you listed so many North players, you can only bring 7-8 forwards at most into any particular game
Simpkin rotating forward doesnt mean much either, a lot of mids do that. Kelly sits forward when having a rest sometimes too but we dont count him as a forward. Very optimistic to think Simpkin will go 20+ goals. If he plays as an actual forward, he is replacing one of the other guys you listed

Nah

Like every point you make seems wrong other than north not having a darling type yet. But as I said he’s almost 32.

Larkey is an all Aust, you can’t just say Allen is his equal.

Zuhaar has kicked way more goals than Cripps over the last 3 years and he’s 25. Cripps turns 32 also. Zuhaar has probably kicked more than darling over the last 3 years as well. That’s a better comparison. Cripps can = Stephenson who kicked more than Cripps this year anyway and he’s only 24.

And maybe you forgot round 1, but comben was vastly superior to Williams who from memory got towled up in the ruck by Greenwood. While comben earned plaudits from commentators all day.

Speaking of that day. I think Paul Curtis kicked 2.2. In the return game he kicked 4.1 in the second qrt. Not sure what he did the other 3. West coasts leading goal assist player in 2023 was Tim Kelly with 20. Paul Curtis had 19. West coasts next best was 11 for long. Beating both Kelly and Curtis for assists per game was zuhaar, who had about 65% more goal assists than = Cripps

So. So far north has the better big key forward, 2 of the best best 3 goals assist players (and by along way).

Now let’s look at draft capital

North have used

Pick 3 - sheezel

Pick 4 - Dursma

Brayden George

Those 3 kicked insane amounts of goals in the u18’s as difference making forwards. I’ll agree Reid is that despite raw numbers saying otherwise. But how much does he play forward?

Brayden George vs Maric. Look anyone could be better. But based on their draft years George went at 20 with an acl. Maric didn’t get drafted. They are different levels in the talent department.

Noah long vs Eddie ford is a statistical strong win for Elvis. Granted there is a 2 year age difference.

So basically I think we can agree that

Larkey beats Allen
Zuhaar beats darling
Stephenson beats cripps
Curtis beats Brockman
Ford beats long
George beats Maric
Dursma beats Reid (as a forward)
Sheezel beats whoever
Comben beats Williams
Thomas v Ryan comparison only brings pain.

Impartials?

Tell me which of the above is wrong

Thank you and good night

 

[gungho]

West coast have good older guys, north don't.
Overall strength when healthy is eagles by a fair margin


They lose in other parts of the ground though

Your older guys were good a few years ago. Gaff, Shuey, Nic Nat, McGovern, hurn darling sheed ect

 

[Shueygod]

Nah

Like every point you make seems wrong other than north not having a darling type yet. But as I said he’s almost 32.

Larkey is an all Aust, you can’t just say Allen is his equal.

Zuhaar has kicked way more goals than Cripps over the last 3 years and he’s 25. Cripps turns 32 also. Zuhaar has probably kicked more than darling over the last 3 years as well. That’s a better comparison. Cripps can = Stephenson who kicked more than Cripps this year anyway and he’s only 24.

And maybe you forgot round 1, but comben was vastly superior to Williams who from memory got towled up in the ruck by Greenwood. While comben earned plaudits from commentators all day.

Speaking of that day. I think Paul Curtis kicked 2.2. In the return game he kicked 4.1 in the second qrt. Not sure what he did the other 3. West coasts leading goal assist player in 2023 was Tim Kelly with 20. Paul Curtis had 19. West coasts next best was 11 for long. Beating both Kelly and Curtis for assists per game was zuhaar, who had about 65% more goal assists than = Cripps

So. So far north has the better big key forward, 2 of the best best 3 goals assist players (and by along way).

Now let’s look at draft capital

North have used

Pick 3 - sheezel

Pick 4 - Dursma

Brayden George

Those 3 kicked insane amounts of goals in the u18’s as difference making forwards. I’ll agree Reid is that despite raw numbers saying otherwise. But how much does he play forward?

Brayden George vs Maric. Look anyone could be better. But based on their draft years George went at 20 with an acl. Maric didn’t get drafted. They are different levels in the talent department.

Noah long vs Eddie ford is a statistical strong win for Elvis. Granted there is a 2 year age difference.

So basically I think we can agree that

Larkey beats Allen
Zuhaar beats darling
Stephenson beats cripps
Curtis beats Brockman
Ford beats long
George beats Maric
Dursma beats Reid (as a forward)
Sheezel beats whoever
Comben beats Williams
Thomas v Ryan comparison only brings pain.

Impartials?

Tell me which of the above is wrong

Thank you and good night

******* gold.

 

[Shueygod]

Nah

Like every point you make seems wrong other than north not having a darling type yet. But as I said he’s almost 32.

Larkey is an all Aust, you can’t just say Allen is his equal.

Zuhaar has kicked way more goals than Cripps over the last 3 years and he’s 25. Cripps turns 32 also. Zuhaar has probably kicked more than darling over the last 3 years as well. That’s a better comparison. Cripps can = Stephenson who kicked more than Cripps this year anyway and he’s only 24.

And maybe you forgot round 1, but comben was vastly superior to Williams who from memory got towled up in the ruck by Greenwood. While comben earned plaudits from commentators all day.

Speaking of that day. I think Paul Curtis kicked 2.2. In the return game he kicked 4.1 in the second qrt. Not sure what he did the other 3. West coasts leading goal assist player in 2023 was Tim Kelly with 20. Paul Curtis had 19. West coasts next best was 11 for long. Beating both Kelly and Curtis for assists per game was zuhaar, who had about 65% more goal assists than = Cripps

So. So far north has the better big key forward, 2 of the best best 3 goals assist players (and by along way).

Now let’s look at draft capital

North have used

Pick 3 - sheezel

Pick 4 - Dursma

Brayden George

Those 3 kicked insane amounts of goals in the u18’s as difference making forwards. I’ll agree Reid is that despite raw numbers saying otherwise. But how much does he play forward?

Brayden George vs Maric. Look anyone could be better. But based on their draft years George went at 20 with an acl. Maric didn’t get drafted. They are different levels in the talent department.

Noah long vs Eddie ford is a statistical strong win for Elvis. Granted there is a 2 year age difference.

So basically I think we can agree that

Larkey beats Allen
Zuhaar beats darling
Stephenson beats cripps
Curtis beats Brockman
Ford beats long
George beats Maric
Dursma beats Reid (as a forward)
Sheezel beats whoever
Comben beats Williams
Thomas v Ryan comparison only brings pain.

Impartials?

Tell me which of the above is wrong

Thank you and good night

Cripps averaged more goals, disposals and tackles than Stephenson, Brockman more goals, disposals and equal tackles as Curtis.

George hasn’t played while Maric was averaging a goal a game.

Allen bridges the slight goals gap by being better than Larkey at everything else.

I’ll give you Ford over Long for now though I can’t see it continuing.

Comben is barely VFL standard let alone comparing him to Williams, the growth Williams showed last year from r1 to the end of season was extraordinary.

Darling and Zurhaar were statistically very similar although we’ll give it to Zurhaar for the extra disposals.

Actual objective rankings.

Allen = Larkey
Darling < Zurhaar
Cripps > Stephenson
Brockman > Curtis
Long < Ford
Maric > George
Williams > Comben

That’s the likely 7 actually playing forward, not too sure why you’ve listed ten blokes unless you figure playing no backline will be as effective as the potatoes you do have down there.

 

[stallon]

Nah

k

Now let’s look at draft capital

North have used

Pick 3 - sheezel

Pick 4 - Dursma

Brayden George

Those 3 kicked insane amounts of goals in the u18’s as difference making forwards. I’ll agree Reid is that despite raw numbers saying otherwise. But how much does he play forward?

What they did in their draft year doesnt mean anything, they have to play against men now

Larkey is an all Aust, you can’t just say Allen is his equal.

lmao

Larkey beats Allen
Zuhaar beats darling
Stephenson beats cripps
Curtis beats Brockman
Ford beats long
George beats Maric
Dursma beats Reid (as a forward)
Sheezel beats whoever
Comben beats Williams
Thomas v Ryan comparison only brings pain.

 

[the big lebowski]

Cripps averaged more goals, disposals and tackles than Stephenson, Brockman more goals, disposals and equal tackles as Curtis.

George hasn’t played while Maric was averaging a goal a game.

Allen bridges the slight goals gap by being better than Larkey at everything else.

I’ll give you Ford over Long for now though I can’t see it continuing.

Comben is barely VFL standard let alone comparing him to Williams, the growth Williams showed last year from r1 to the end of season was extraordinary.

Darling and Zurhaar were statistically very similar although we’ll give it to Zurhaar for the extra disposals.

Actual objective rankings.

Allen = Larkey
Darling < Zurhaar
Cripps > Stephenson
Brockman > Curtis
Long < Ford
Maric > George
Williams > Comben

That’s the likely 7 actually playing forward, not too sure why you’ve listed ten blokes unless you figure playing no backline will be as effective as the potatoes you do have down there.

Comben averages triple the goals per game that Williams does.

Triple.

Brockman kicked 13 goals last year and set up 10. Curtis 19 and 19. Again. He kicked 6 goals in two games against west coast. He would have set up the second most goals for west coast. You’re not reading correctly.

Nick larkey has kicked 191 to Allen’s 119.

You need to stop

 

[the big lebowski]

As I said let’s let impartials decide between the following for 2024 and for fun, beyond:

Larkey v Allen
Zuhaar v darling
Stephenson v cripps
Curtis v Brockman
Ford v long
George v Maric
Dursma v Reid (as a forward)
Sheezel v ?
Comben v Williams

 

[stallon]

Comben averages triple the goals per game that Williams does.

Triple.

Brockman kicked 13 goals last year and set up 10. Curtis 19 and 19. Again. He kicked 6 goals in two games against west coast. He would have set up the second most goals for west coast. You’re not reading correctly.

Nick larkey has kicked 191 to Allen’s 119.

You need to stop

Williams is a ruck/fwd. Played the year as a ruckman, of course hes not going to have as many goals as a guy who has played pure fwd.
Youd have a very hard time finding a single club who would preder Comben over B.Williams right now.
Only a one eyed North man could say Larkey is better than Allen. Larkey, the sole man down there for North for a few years now, vs Allen who was injured 2022, and was behind one of the best KPFs of all time for the first few years of his career. There is more to a players game than goals kicked, Larkey doesnt do anything other than sit in the square and marks the ball because hes too tall to spoil. Allen at least can contribute in other ways, probably the best all rounder KPF in the comp right now

You need to stop

 

[the big lebowski]

Williams is a ruck/fwd. Played the year as a ruckman, of course hes not going to have as many goals as a guy who has played pure fwd.
Youd have a very hard time finding a single club who would preder Comben over B.Williams right now.
Only a one eyed North man could say Larkey is better than Allen. Larkey, the sole man down there for North for a few years now, vs Allen who was injured 2022, and was behind one of the best KPFs of all time for the first few years of his career. There is more to a players game than goals kicked, Larkey doesnt do anything other than sit in the square and marks the ball because hes too tall to spoil. Allen at least can contribute in other ways, probably the best all rounder KPF in the comp right now

You need to stop

Only a one eyed north fan would say 191 goal larkey is better than 119 goal Oscar Allen?

K

West coast forwards are older and kick less goals.

 

[the big lebowski]

I mean it’s line ball between Xerri and Williams

Tristan Xerri and Bailey Williams AFL Stats Comparison

Tristan Xerri and Bailey Williams AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Factoring in Williams getting done by Hugh Greenwood

1

Hugh Greenwood

Age

32

Ht

190cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

8.1

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

6.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

17.4

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

8.9

5star

CL

5.6

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

7.6

5star

CL

4.4

5star

, Xerri smashing his ankle and missing half the season, and sharing the ruck with goldy these stats don’t look great for Bailey

 

[Shueygod]

Comben averages triple the goals per game that Williams does.

Triple.

Brockman kicked 13 goals last year and set up 10. Curtis 19 and 19. Again. He kicked 6 goals in two games against west coast. He would have set up the second most goals for west coast. You’re not reading correctly.

Nick larkey has kicked 191 to Allen’s 119.

You need to stop

Changing the goalposts depending on the player heavily here.

Mixing it up going by totals or averages for whatever suits your agenda is very disingenuous.

Let’s see who scores more this season

 

[Shueygod]

I mean it’s line ball between Xerri and Williams

Tristan Xerri and Bailey Williams AFL Stats Comparison

Tristan Xerri and Bailey Williams AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Factoring in Williams getting done by Hugh Greenwood, Xerri smashing his ankle and missing half the season, and sharing the ruck with goldy these stats don’t look great for Bailey

Not going for totals for this one?

Have some consistency muppet.

 

[Sphynx]

Wardlaw is the biggest factor here.

It looks likely we will be adding a B&F candidate to the side week in week out compared to last year.

Not only that, he's going to bring absolute manic elite defensive pressure around the ball. Something we have struggled with for 4-5 years.

The average supporter has no idea what they are dealing with here yet and he looks fit and strong in early pre-season games. He's a level above both Ashcroft and Sheezel and I think the AFL world will see that this year.

McKercher likely finishes top 5-10 as well, injury permitting, so that alone will be a massive injection into the side imo, particularly if you factor in LDU not missing 50% of the season either.

No idea what the Weagles will be like, but looking at us in isolation, I do think this is the year we finally start to claw ourselves back up the ladder.

LDU and Wardlaw's fitness will decide how high we go.

 

[Anynameyouwish]

It looks likely we will be adding a B&F candidate to the side week in week out compared to last year.

A North B&F candidate carry’s the same weight as the third new ball in a cricket innings.

 

[bzparkes]

Comben averages triple the goals per game that Williams does.

Triple.

Brockman kicked 13 goals last year and set up 10. Curtis 19 and 19. Again. He kicked 6 goals in two games against west coast. He would have set up the second most goals for west coast. You’re not reading correctly.

Nick larkey has kicked 191 to Allen’s 119.

You need to stop

Comben plays mostly as a forward and not ruck, no?

Being the only tall forward in North's forward line for pretty much his entire career will obviously net Larkey more goals than a bloke who spent a considerable time in defense/ruck and who was also injured for a full year, as well as playing third fiddle to 2 of the club's top 5 goal kickers of all time.

 

[Sphynx]

Comben plays mostly as a forward and not ruck, no?

Being the only tall forward in North's forward line for pretty much his entire career will obviously net Larkey more goals than a bloke who spent a considerable time in defense/ruck and who was also injured for a full year, as well as playing third fiddle to 2 of the club's top 5 goal kickers of all time.

Comben played most of his junior career as a ruck/fwd.

He's played in the ruck a fair bit at VFL level.

 

[Sphynx]

A North B&F candidate carry’s the same weight as the third new ball in a cricket innings.

I think most sides would take LDU, Larkey or Sheezel personally.

 

[HBFlanker]

North will finish higher than the other Perth team as well in my opinion.

 

[rye]

comben might be a challenger for the rarest skill set in the game

dont know any other player who gains reputation week on week whilst being out injured the majority of the time and showing very little at afl level when hes not

 

[Anynameyouwish]

I think most sides would take LDU, Larkey or Sheezel personally.

I agree - I think that proven North top 5 or 6 are pretty good but last years count shows that of the top 10 only Larkey or Sheezel were a realistic chance of winning.

Of the remaining top 10 contenders for the B&F I don’t think Scott, Ziebell, Mackay, Shiels or Simpkin would excite as a top-10 of a side deep into a rebuild and that is without considering whether Thomas is worth it.

So becoming a contender with those guys is not the accolade you think it is.

Maybe declare George has the tools to be a starting inside mid to fill the sizeable hole Cunnington left and George might even have the raw material to be better than Cunnington (who was universally admired)?

At present I think that is a better rub on the kid.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Eagles should easily unless they want to take a dive looking for handouts

 

[the big lebowski]

Changing the goalposts depending on the player heavily here.

Mixing it up going by totals or averages for whatever suits your agenda is very disingenuous.

Let’s see who scores more this season

Let’s. you have around 40 goals to make up.