List Mgmt. Blair Hartley Project - 2014 - 5 list spaces confirmed

[CHIMP MAGNET]

Pav and Sandy aren't on 1m, while I agree NR was close.

Pav & Sandi were both on over a mill in 2012, Pav dropped under last year, Nick just took a 500k pay cut, but was on a mill for years.

 

[_RT_]

Well anyone to be honest. They are "good players" but are replaceable.

Dangerfield is A grade. Absolute.

Would improve our team no end. Your saying opposition look at us and say, gee Jackson and Foley will be hard to match up on? Not at all. Even though Jackson won a best and fairest, don't get blinded by it.

Hardwick loves a battler.

Me, I prefer class.

Cotchin Martin Deledio Rance Riewoldt are all A grade
Ellis Miles Vlastuin all potential A graders.
If we bring in a Dangerfield odd are we lose 1 of them and while you'll no doubt say that we're still better off with getting Dangerfield, we're not when you factor in losing a couple of quality B graders in the process. That is my first point.

The thing with Jackson and Foley is that while clubs don't look at them and say gee they are tough to match up on, but they do know that both are capable of having an impact on the game by getting in and feeding the ball out to Cotchin Martin Deledio & Ellis among others. This is where they become important to our side. If they go and the replacements happened to be Arnot & Helbig do you think we're going to get the same sort of performance as what we currently get? I doubt that we will even with the addition of Dangerfield. That's my second point.

Hardwick might like a battler, but truth be told sides are only as good as their battlers allow them to be. We've had most of the guys I listed as A graders for the whole time Hardwick has been here, it's no coincidence that as the support around them has become better our results have become better(yes, this year sucked but that's a different story and been covered). Like I showed above, we've got plenty of A graders/potential A graders on our list already. What we need to do is continue to surround them with quality support. It doesn't necessarily have to be Higgins and/or Mackay that come in to add that support, it might mean developing those that we've already got or are bringing in at seasons end through the draft. That's my 3rd point

You talk about me being blinded, I think a lot of our supporters are blinded by the results of this year. They see us struggling this year and think we need to go out and recruit a gun player like Dangerfield to become a genuine threat again. Dangerfield doesn't become available until the end of next season. By then we could have Ellis Miles and Vlastuin all stepping up to become A grade talent. We might also have the likes of Lennon & McDonough stepping up and becoming quality B graders. Vickery or Griffiths or McBean might step up and become quality support to Jack. There is plenty of time between now and next year when all these big name FA become available and we might not need to go chasing a big name FA, especially if we get it right with what we already have and adding some cheaper quality support.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Ok I'm going to ask again, how do people expect us to make a play for Dangerfield, likely to cost $800k+, plus sign Cotchin our captain, Rance our number 1 KPD, Ellis & Martin 2 potentially elite long term midfielders and Foley & Jackson 2 long serving quality midfielders?

Fold VFL side and just have 25 on list.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

LMAO @ not getting a gun so we can keep Foley & Jackson. Christ I'd even sacrifice Ellis or Conca as well to get someone like Dangerfield.

I'd seriously give up anyone bar Cotchin & Martin for Jeremy Cameron.

After ONE good year you want to sell the farm?lol

 

[Mr Magic]

Cotchin Martin Deledio Rance Riewoldt are all A grade
Ellis Miles Vlastuin all potential A graders.
If we bring in a Dangerfield odd are we lose 1 of them and while you'll no doubt say that we're still better off with getting Dangerfield, we're not when you factor in losing a couple of quality B graders in the process. That is my first point.

The thing with Jackson and Foley is that while clubs don't look at them and say gee they are tough to match up on, but they do know that both are capable of having an impact on the game by getting in and feeding the ball out to Cotchin Martin Deledio & Ellis among others. This is where they become important to our side. If they go and the replacements happened to be Arnot & Helbig do you think we're going to get the same sort of performance as what we currently get? I doubt that we will even with the addition of Dangerfield. That's my second point.

Hardwick might like a battler, but truth be told sides are only as good as their battlers allow them to be. We've had most of the guys I listed as A graders for the whole time Hardwick has been here, it's no coincidence that as the support around them has become better our results have become better(yes, this year sucked but that's a different story and been covered). Like I showed above, we've got plenty of A graders/potential A graders on our list already. What we need to do is continue to surround them with quality support. It doesn't necessarily have to be Higgins and/or Mackay that come in to add that support, it might mean developing those that we've already got or are bringing in at seasons end through the draft. That's my 3rd point

You talk about me being blinded, I think a lot of our supporters are blinded by the results of this year. They see us struggling this year and think we need to go out and recruit a gun player like Dangerfield to become a genuine threat again. Dangerfield doesn't become available until the end of next season. By then we could have Ellis Miles and Vlastuin all stepping up to become A grade talent. We might also have the likes of Lennon & McDonough stepping up and becoming quality B graders. Vickery or Griffiths or McBean might step up and become quality support to Jack. There is plenty of time between now and next year when all these big name FA become available and we might not need to go chasing a big name FA, especially if we get it right with what we already have and adding some cheaper quality support.

The bold rating of A and potential A is meaningless. Some of those players are worth double others and vice versa!!


What about being blinded by the results of 30+years??? We have not become a genuine threat for 30+ years IMO!!

btw good teams are only as good as the opposition allows, battlers have nothing to do with it!!!

 

[nut]

Why are we discussing Dangerfield?how on earth could we get him?

 

[Mr Magic]

Why are we discussing Dangerfield?how on earth could we get him?

Probably because not many can consume the subject of getting Higgins, if it goes away maybe he will not come!!

 

[nut]

Higgins would be ok If you can get him for free and pay him 400k a year...... anything more than that then it becomes risky IMO..

 

[Mr Magic]

Higgins would be ok If you can get him for free and pay him 400k a year...... anything more than that then it becomes risky IMO..

I would pay 200K for Higgins anything more is too much!! 400K for Higgins harbours wooden spoon desires IMO!

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Foley, Jackson, Higgins Or Dangerfield, Thomas, McDonough.... Superstars at key points are worth every cent compared to solid average players. The kind of planing and onfield work that gets put into top liners has way more impact than 3 average blokes compared to the slightly lesser output of playing a few extra younger guys. Being a supporter isn't the same as being a fanboi.

 

[Mr Magic]

Foley, Jackson, Higgins Or Dangerfield, Thomas, McDonough.... Superstars at key points are worth every cent compared to solid average players. The kind of planing and onfield work that gets put into top liners has way more impact than 3 average blokes compared to the slightly lesser output of playing a few extra younger guys. Being a supporter isn't the same as being a fanboi.

That is a great comparison assuming some may think the groupings are equal.

I am not sure getting Dangerfield to RFC on big coin is necessarily the best option for RFC next year but I will say Dangerfield and Thomas and McDonough would beat Foley, Jackson and Higgins everyday of the week and be far more valuable!!!!

 

[Harmichael]

After ONE good year you want to sell the farm?lol

LMAO - would probably take ONE very good player and a trade of picks to their advantage - hardly "selling the farm" - and if you seriously think Cameron's only going to be a one-year wonder then I'd suggest you're in dire need of a clue.

 

[thetradesman]

LMAO - would probably take ONE very good player and a trade of picks to their advantage - hardly "selling the farm" - and if you seriously think Cameron's only going to be a one-year wonder then I'd suggest you're in dire need of a clue.

How do we know he isn't going to be a one hit wonder?

Big risk to take.

 

[Stylo]

How do we know he isn't going to be a one hit wonder?

Big risk to take.

Watch him play mate. Had a down year, struggling with injury, but he's a dead set gun.

 

[thetradesman]

Watch him play mate. Had a down year, struggling with injury, but he's a dead set gun.

I have watched him play, he has talent but it is still a big risk.

 

[Coxy_]

Wrong on the bold IMO clearly. Apart from the general reasons GWS, like Riccuito said, simply will not be able to have players of the quality and type of Cameron, Patton and Boyd in the team under the cap and capable of winning a premiership!!!

Regarding Dangerfield v Foley and Jackson. Dangerfield is clearly of more value. Frankly i do not think when push comes to shove we will chase Danger and he is a little over valued in some quarters. Having said that, IMO he is worth more than Jackson and Foley, apart from the general assessments because Foley and Jackson can be replaced. More importantly because Jackson and Foley can be replaced they can be nulified or effect kept to a minimum. Danger on the other hand is harder to stop which is important winning and competing giveing you the edge you need to achieve success. How much of an edge is debatable but the edge is there IMO clearly.

Seriously though, what some of these trade discussions indicates to me IMO is some posters, not all, massively overrated some of our players in terms of the wages they should be commanding!!

I will not name names but Dusty for example, IMO, is clearly not over paid, particularly in comparison to the others!!

Why have you quoted me about Dangerfield v Jackson/Foley?

 

[Mr Magic]

Why have you quoted me about Dangerfield v Jackson/Foley?

I didn't think I did. I quoted you about Boyd going/not going from GWS as part of a dual contrary response to save time for me.

 

[Coxy_]

I didn't think I did. I quoted you about Boyd going/not going from GWS as part of a dual contrary response to save time for me.

I didn't post about Boyd...

 

[Mr Magic]

I didn't post about Boyd...

Correct my mistake!!! Sorry

Nah, I think your post was a reply to RT about Dangerfield versus Grunts and you were thinking along the same lines as me.

What I find with my computer is I will start replying to posts and then start another reply and the old reply sticks to the screen in the reply area which is why I included the Boyd one because I would have had to get rid of it to and decided to kill 2 birds with one stone via one post.

The bolded part of your post was actually a RT post you replied to but instead of wiping your post and chasing down RT's older post I just bolded the wording RT stated which you replied to in your post to save time and heartache for me.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Very much against picking up Shaun Higgins. How about we develop one of our own small/mid sized forwards for once, instead of picking up everyone the scraps from other teams? And I mean scraps:

- Knights
- Maric
- Petterd
- Banfield
- Aaron Edwards

I think all of the above were picked up in the last 3 drafts! Last decent recycled forward we got was Mitch Morton. If he is the pinnacle...honestly. Small/Mid sized forwards has been our least successful area since playing the "moneyball" game.

Now, Higgins?? 27 by the start of the year (unfulfilled potential...pffft), crippled by injuries, can't make the dogs squad now fully fit. Why are we even being mentioned as suitors?

Meanwhile we've played Martin everywhere but forward up until recently, Sheds has spent a fair bit of time in the backline, McDonough and O'Hanlon can't get a game...I wonder what are we going to do to Ben Lennon over the next 3 or 4 years!

 

[nut]

I would pay 200K for Higgins anything more is too much!! 400K for Higgins harbours wooden spoon desires IMO!

The average wage for a starting 22 player would be around 350-400k now.....

 

[Stitch]

imagine what other club boards are saying about dustin martin similar to us and talking about dangerfield...
We should be saving $$$ to aford Dusty after 2015 just like I'm sure the crows will be doing for Danger. Bring in some gun kids (draft or gws eg miles), develop them and bob's your uncle. Avoid higgins - fools gold.

 

[captain cotch 9]

What about Moribito?
Injury plagued but was a star before getting injured.
He won't cost much and might be looking for a fresh start.

 

[Stitch]

What about Moribito?
Injury plagued but was a star before getting injured.
He won't cost much and might be looking for a fresh start.

From WA and freo have supported him through 3 years of injury = no chance of leaving

 

[theflea]

Pav & Sandi were both on over a mill in 2012, Pav dropped under last year, Nick just took a 500k pay cut, but was on a mill for years.

Sauce? Also a technical point Freo wasn't a GF team then.