Opinion Best 22 - 2015

[MileHigh]

Watson is unproven and there is no need to jump on one side or the other. This year will tell us a lot about him as he enters his 5th season and when you really start to see whether a KPP has what it takes. If he was a high, high draft selection he might have 40-50 games under his belt. As it stands he only has 19 and I would suggest even at the end of the 2015 season if he has progressed even a bit it is enough to suggest he is worth a contract extension. Hes only 22 yrs and 3 months dont forget and really around the 24 year mark or 70 games (ideally both) you feel like you really know what you have on your hands with a KPP.

I have seen promise in him. He has genuine intensity, is a very big body and is a raking kick that seems to be able to kick 60m easily. The only down side is he a little slow of the mark and I am not sure on his ability to get off the ground but he is tenacious when the ball is there to be won on the deck and at his size he could really hurt a player if he lines them up right. He already stands 195cm and 99kg so his modus operandi in defense is going to be to muscle the opposition under the drop of the ball as opposed to being that defender who is going to match up on the opposition forward leading out from the square.

If he is forward he is simply going to try to win the marking contest one out inside 50 or bring the ball to the ground for the forwards. I personally would love nothing more than to see him marking around the 50 and wheeling around on his left like Buddy does to take a pot shot at goal because he would be able to do it off a step. Touhy seems to be the only genuine player we have that can travel that distance easily and when things are working out for us getting marks inside 50 we need this as an extra weapon in our artillery. Casboult can kick the distance but is too slow to react and could only do so after having take a grab 45m out.

At the very least with Watson, even if he isn't brilliant but is serviceable, we have a potential back up KPP who at this stage looks like he can play both forward and back. If you cast your mind back a few years prior to Rowe, if Jamison went down (which he seemed to do once a year for an extended period) we had nothing in terms of back up. Right now we have Hendo, Casboult, Jamison and Rowe as your big KPP. You then have Jones who we have just started who will probably be starting 22 forward as your 3rd tall, and White I think still will play that 3rd tall in defense. We NOW have Jaksch who is only 20 and developing who can play at both ends, and Watson who is a different size and style KPP but can equally play both ends. That is a really good position for us in terms of KPP stocks and we haven't been in that position for as long as I can remember. The only time we had this many KPP on the list was when we had Watson, McCarthy and Mitchell who were all taken in the same draft and way too young to even be playing seniors.

Right now our youngest KPP is 20 years old and has been in the system for 2 years. Persist with Watson as a back up along with Jaksch and all things considered they will both get approximately half a season next year. We will see what Watson is made of and we will get some more development into Jaksch as he comes along. Don't be so hasty to judge Watson, give him a chance and think about the position of our list instead of judging him purely on what he has achieved up to the age of 22.

 

[ajb72]

I've got a feeling in my waters Watson is going to be a very important player for us this year.........

 

[Coona Blues]

Watson is unproven and there is no need to jump on one side or the other. This year will tell us a lot about him as he enters his 5th season and when you really start to see whether a KPP has what it takes. If he was a high, high draft selection he might have 40-50 games under his belt. As it stands he only has 19 and I would suggest even at the end of the 2015 season if he has progressed even a bit it is enough to suggest he is worth a contract extension. Hes only 22 yrs and 3 months dont forget and really around the 24 year mark or 70 games (ideally both) you feel like you really know what you have on your hands with a KPP.

I have seen promise in him. He has genuine intensity, is a very big body and is a raking kick that seems to be able to kick 60m easily. The only down side is he a little slow of the mark and I am not sure on his ability to get off the ground but he is tenacious when the ball is there to be won on the deck and at his size he could really hurt a player if he lines them up right. He already stands 195cm and 99kg so his modus operandi in defense is going to be to muscle the opposition under the drop of the ball as opposed to being that defender who is going to match up on the opposition forward leading out from the square.

If he is forward he is simply going to try to win the marking contest one out inside 50 or bring the ball to the ground for the forwards. I personally would love nothing more than to see him marking around the 50 and wheeling around on his left like Buddy does to take a pot shot at goal because he would be able to do it off a step. Touhy seems to be the only genuine player we have that can travel that distance easily and when things are working out for us getting marks inside 50 we need this as an extra weapon in our artillery. Casboult can kick the distance but is too slow to react and could only do so after having take a grab 45m out.

At the very least with Watson, even if he isn't brilliant but is serviceable, we have a potential back up KPP who at this stage looks like he can play both forward and back. If you cast your mind back a few years prior to Rowe, if Jamison went down (which he seemed to do once a year for an extended period) we had nothing in terms of back up. Right now we have Hendo, Casboult, Jamison and Rowe as your big KPP. You then have Jones who we have just started who will probably be starting 22 forward as your 3rd tall, and White I think still will play that 3rd tall in defense. We NOW have Jaksch who is only 20 and developing who can play at both ends, and Watson who is a different size and style KPP but can equally play both ends. That is a really good position for us in terms of KPP stocks and we haven't been in that position for as long as I can remember. The only time we had this many KPP on the list was when we had Watson, McCarthy and Mitchell who were all taken in the same draft and way too young to even be playing seniors.

Right now our youngest KPP is 20 years old and has been in the system for 2 years. Persist with Watson as a back up along with Jaksch and all things considered they will both get approximately half a season next year. We will see what Watson is made of and we will get some more development into Jaksch as he comes along. Don't be so hasty to judge Watson, give him a chance and think about the position of our list instead of judging him purely on what he has achieved up to the age of 22.

I really hope Watson does not suffer from not fitting the stereotypical contested marking beast or dasher on the lead as a KPF. Similarly he is not the consummate stopping defender. He simply brings a different skill set to the table.

His efforts as a forward in his round 23 cameo really showcased what he can bring to the team. He is not slow on the lead, but does lack a little in the agility stakes, minimising the ability to make multiple leads. He is very capable of taking a contested grab, but I was most taken by his awareness of his surroundings. On multiple occasions he shot out handpasses or taps to team mates in better position. He seemed ultra aware of his positioning. This is in direct contrast to his maligned efforts in defence, where he sometimes "panicked" and lost composure when isolated in the last line. He is an excellent defender, particularly across half back. I believe he could easily play a 3rd tall down back, zoning off (plus 1) and then using his boot to provide the rebound. Today's blueprint, which MM seems to covet is the two stoppers (Jammo, Rowe) a utility and running rebounders. Watson adds a different dimension, but we seem locked in to a more mobile 3rd tall option, his boot provides as much rebound as Walker, Yarran and co running it out.

Jaksch has been earmarked as a defender first by our brains trust. When fit Giles probably the same, although both should effectively "swing". The only KPP's we have that are limited in role are Jammo and Levi, most likely Jones will be a forward first too. If Watson can bring the solid dependable team oriented role to our forward line while commanding a good defender, it releases Hendo, Levi, Kreuzer, Jones, Walker and Menzel to provide options on a one on one basis rather than being double and triple teamed by organised defences. If the opposition focus on Hendo or Cas, expect a very capable Watson to kick goals of his own.

I do not lament missing out on Boyd, the dominant power forward, with "support" acts in the modern game is surely less effective than having 3 commanding targets, each demanding a quality defender. (Hawkins a top line power forward, but the Cats are on the decline) If they are well drilled and running to the right areas, they create space for each other as well as allowing the likes of Walker and Menzel to isolate on smaller opponents.

I haven't heard of new coaching appointments, but would love "Skinny" Lappin back. IIRC he was responsible for our Walker, Betts, Garlett forward effectiveness post Fev, so seems the right option to make our forward line a "hydra".

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Watson is unproven and there is no need to jump on one side or the other. This year will tell us a lot about him as he enters his 5th season and when you really start to see whether a KPP has what it takes. If he was a high, high draft selection he might have 40-50 games under his belt. As it stands he only has 19 and I would suggest even at the end of the 2015 season if he has progressed even a bit it is enough to suggest he is worth a contract extension. Hes only 22 yrs and 3 months dont forget and really around the 24 year mark or 70 games (ideally both) you feel like you really know what you have on your hands with a KPP.

I have seen promise in him. He has genuine intensity, is a very big body and is a raking kick that seems to be able to kick 60m easily. The only down side is he a little slow of the mark and I am not sure on his ability to get off the ground but he is tenacious when the ball is there to be won on the deck and at his size he could really hurt a player if he lines them up right. He already stands 195cm and 99kg so his modus operandi in defense is going to be to muscle the opposition under the drop of the ball as opposed to being that defender who is going to match up on the opposition forward leading out from the square.

If he is forward he is simply going to try to win the marking contest one out inside 50 or bring the ball to the ground for the forwards. I personally would love nothing more than to see him marking around the 50 and wheeling around on his left like Buddy does to take a pot shot at goal because he would be able to do it off a step. Touhy seems to be the only genuine player we have that can travel that distance easily and when things are working out for us getting marks inside 50 we need this as an extra weapon in our artillery. Casboult can kick the distance but is too slow to react and could only do so after having take a grab 45m out.

At the very least with Watson, even if he isn't brilliant but is serviceable, we have a potential back up KPP who at this stage looks like he can play both forward and back. If you cast your mind back a few years prior to Rowe, if Jamison went down (which he seemed to do once a year for an extended period) we had nothing in terms of back up. Right now we have Hendo, Casboult, Jamison and Rowe as your big KPP. You then have Jones who we have just started who will probably be starting 22 forward as your 3rd tall, and White I think still will play that 3rd tall in defense. We NOW have Jaksch who is only 20 and developing who can play at both ends, and Watson who is a different size and style KPP but can equally play both ends. That is a really good position for us in terms of KPP stocks and we haven't been in that position for as long as I can remember. The only time we had this many KPP on the list was when we had Watson, McCarthy and Mitchell who were all taken in the same draft and way too young to even be playing seniors.

Right now our youngest KPP is 20 years old and has been in the system for 2 years. Persist with Watson as a back up along with Jaksch and all things considered they will both get approximately half a season next year. We will see what Watson is made of and we will get some more development into Jaksch as he comes along. Don't be so hasty to judge Watson, give him a chance and think about the position of our list instead of judging him purely on what he has achieved up to the age of 22.

A couple of things:

1. IMO Watson lacks intensity, seems to second guess himself a lot.
2. Gibbs has been kicking goals from outside 50 this year.
3. Giles is 19 & has been in the system 1 year.

 

[HARKER]

A couple of things:

1. IMO Watson lacks intensity, seems to second guess himself a lot.
2. Gibbs has been kicking goals from outside 50 this year.
3. Giles is 19 & has been in the system 1 year.

That's just not true any more.
It wasn't even last year and he's been going in a step harder again this year.

He doesn't smash packs in a Casboult manner but how many do?
Watsons intensity could always be better as could be said for 90% of players if you want, but it's far from what some have been suggesting.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

That's just not true any more.
It wasn't even last year and he's been going in a step harder again this year.

He doesn't smash packs in a Casboult manner but how many do?
Watsons intensity could always be better as could be said for 90% of players if you want, but it's far from what some have been suggesting.

Completely agree with the '90% of players bit'. In fact there'd be less than 10% of players I would describe as having 'genuine intensity'. Buckley, for example, is one. Watson is not.

Watson's leg speed is nowhere near as bad as it's often mentioned in here. He just gets caught ball watching occasionally & is slow to react, or second guesses himself & is slow to commit. It's fixable, & as you said has gotten better.

 

[Coona Blues]

It's not as much a matter of missing out on a player as that happens many times over for every team.
Geelong missed on Frawley, Saints missed on Jaksch and O'Rourke and Sydney missed on everyone

The issue with Pickerings dealings are that if we had an agreement-in-principle with him re. Boyd for 2015, we walk into the trade/de-listing period in a particular manner only for our list management to be thrown onto its head when he decides to take his client elsewhere because bigger dollars show up.

Some Dogs supporters think that we're dirty on their club for gazumping us in attaining Boyd, but they've missed the real point of the issue.
An issue anyone would be upset about should it happen to them. Pickering is richer for his dealings but has lost some integrity along the way.............Not that that would matter to some either, I guess.

A little too moralistic, and smacks of double standards to me Harks.

We have laid clandestine claim to a prize asset of another club, a year in advance, and you are miffed at being trumped by the dogs. Not
condoning Pickering but is a dog eat dog world full of double standards and compromise. He is in the business of getting the best option
for his client, and in turn himself. We surely justify our overtures and "handshake deal"
the same way.

There are far more important injustices in the world today among the governments and law makers/keepers of our country and the
world. I will never lose sleep over the actions of an agent. The ramifications and lack of integrity around the Essendon saga for a
sports fanatic are much more disturbing.

Again we will be much better off with a multi facetted team than one possible messiah. Much harder to stop multiple threats than one.
My life circumstances are far from spectacular after putting all of my eggs in one basket....don't want Carlton to do the same.

 

[FoeverBlues]

Didn't get the feeling that people have been calling him our saviour. Just seems like a few, myself included, believe he has a big upside and just needs game time. He has had more good games overall than bad ones but has been given far less support than many other players at the club.

big head take longer to explode into AFL

 

[Coona Blues]

Too moralistic for you maybe but not for me.

I did use the term "if" and that is "if" an agreement in principle was in place, re. Toms contract with Carlton next year, then maybe it would be fair to have further discussions with the original party.

Dog eat dog my arse. Hate that term any anyone that lives by it.

Try being on the receiving end. If you think it does not exist you live in a cocoon.
In no way do I condone it, but it is a reality that is growing exponentially.

Idealism and naivety simply make us vulnerable, unless you are one of the lucky few who can escape it.

Source: School of hard knocks

 

[pumped]

A couple of things:

1. IMO Watson lacks intensity, seems to second guess himself a lot.
2. Gibbs has been kicking goals from outside 50 this year.
3. Giles is 19 & has been in the system 1 year.

Agree that much of the time Watson has lacked intensity. However I feel that this is because he has lacked a sense of foundation at the club which has hurt his confidence. I think if he was given consistent game time that he would quickly develop confidence. From here he would not be as hesitant/undecided and from here would also gain intensity.

 

[MileHigh]

A couple of things:

1. IMO Watson lacks intensity, seems to second guess himself a lot.
2. Gibbs has been kicking goals from outside 50 this year.
3. Giles is 19 & has been in the system 1 year.

1) Disagree
2) He can kick 50 but he doesnt have the ability to kick 60 or kick 50 off a step he needs a descent wind up to get there.
3) Right you are. The position of our list in terms of KPP now that we can let him develop as opposed to having to put pressure on these types of players to come into the side earlier is a good thing.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

That's just not true any more.
It wasn't even last year and he's been going in a step harder again this year.

He doesn't smash packs in a Casboult manner but how many do?
Watsons intensity could always be better as could be said for 90% of players if you want, but it's far from what some have been suggesting.

He played 3 games and was dropped immediately after playing in 2 of them and played 1 decent game in round 23. How anybody can be using this form line to think Watson can in anyway become a crucial part of our best 22 are completely kidding themselves.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

What exactly are we talking about because I know what I'm talking about?

The query was on Watsons intensity but he's intensity was very good all year. I know because I saw it.

In the 3 games he played.. I seriously suggest you rewatch the Hawthorn game.

 

[MileHigh]

We needed to be tougher on these players. If you have 1 bad game you should be cut years end. Simple as that.

 

[MileHigh]

It's not that but for anyone that watched the way Lucas, McInnes, Temay and even Garlett went about things in the lower league, being cut was of very little surprise.

Watson may not be best 22 but you can't have possibly denied him for effort this year. It just wouldn't be right.

Sarcasm in my last post was in overload. I rate Watson from what I have seen of him in the seniors. He has the attributes to make it and coming into his 5th year we are going to see if he has what it takes. He has an energy about him which is great for a big guy and I was really happy to see him in the gym doing the extra stuff in the off season with a personal trainer. With a game 90% above the shoulders it seems like he has that part of it sorted. We just need to have patience for his body to catch up to him.

 

[BlueJet]

In the 3 games he played.. I seriously suggest you rewatch the Hawthorn game.

Harker watches him a bit at the lower level (I'm guessing) and obviously sees improvements being made.
I'll admit to not seeing much of him as NB games are often at the same time as my own footy but Watson does seem to get mixed reviews depending on who you speak to, even amongst opponents of his.

 

[BlueJet]

All I'm getting at, is that he was ready to go for every game he played this year. I may have missed one or two but that's it.

Again, it's unfortunate that some of his team-mates weren't as primed for the contest as Watson was and it's in no way a surprise that he and Ellard were retained when some better credentialed team-mates were let go.

That may change next year of course but you can only call it in the now.

I wasn't disagreeing with you mate, I admit to not seeing much of him in recent times so am happy to back in your opinion.

 

[MileHigh]

I must be doing this all wrong as I didn't think you were disagreeing with me

You can get pretty close to players at VFL games and you can at times get a handle on whether a player is "on" for the day or not.

Watson, Graham, Holman, Cachia, Ellard and Armfield were always on. The ones that weren't? Well, they're no longer with us.

Your 'POTY', 'Kreuzer13' and 32,305 posts intimidates some people.

 

[footyfan1978]

Has anyone forgotten just how horrendous he was against Hawthorn..

I have not. It tortured me how much he ruined us that match. He was like a dear caught in head lights down back and then taken off. He was surprisingly brought back on up forward and we had a bit of momentum in the game and looking possible upset. Then he took a mark up forward and missed a very easy crucial goal at that time of game that would have had Hawks in trouble. Then it went down other end and Hawks got a goal and changed how flow of game. They ended up winning and I remember hoping there and then Watson would de-list himself in shame. I remember distinctly saying to myself here is Watson's chance to impress me and I could not have dreamed up a worse nightmare he would be so horrendous when we really needed him to finally show he can cut it at AFL level.

I'm still scratching my head at comments read here.
Yeah, he is a big long kick and a big guy. However he also is slow as treacle. Gets tackled and gives up ball because he is both physically and mentally slow.
God I hope I am wrong and all these people thinking he can change are right.
I'm not sold on a dead rubber round 23 game against Essendon that I never got to.

 

[BluStreak]

Watson, Graham, Holman, Cachia, Ellard and Armfield were always on. The ones that weren't? Well, they're no longer with us.

Delisting Cachia was the one that still troubles me. What was he doing wrong? Was he too short? Too slow? Skill-less?
Always think of Des English when I watch Cachia.

 

[gandaal]

I get the feeling that in reality we've just used Watson wrong. We looked at him and just saw that he was big and tall. We forced him to play as a Key Defender because that's what he looks like.

We should've looked at him and saw that he was an elite kick of the footy who we need to give the footy too at every opportunity.

 

[ShanDog]

You nailed it there I reckon gandaal. Opportunity is the key thing for Watson in 2015. He will have to take them.

 

[goreds]

Delisting Cachia was the one that still troubles me. What was he doing wrong? Was he too short? Too slow? Skill-less?
Always think of Des English when I watch Cachia.

Not up to the level...

 

[mike123]

B: Zach Tuohy ~ Michael Jamison ~ Kristian Jaksch
HB: Chris Yarran ~ Sam Rowe ~ Ciaran Sheehan

C: Dale Thomas ~ Ed Curnow ~ Kade Simpson

HF: Chris Judd ~ Lachlan Henderson ~ Andrew Walker
F: Troy Menzel ~Liam Jones ~ Levi Casboult

R: Matthew Kreuzer ~ Marc Murphy ~ Bryce Gibbs

INT: Tom Bell ~ Patrick Cripps ~ Sam Docherty ~ Andrejs Everitt

 

[JamisonRun40]

All players miss crucial goals at crucial times, Fev missed from 30 metres out, I hope we don't use Watson as our whippng boy next season. Gosh I hope he has a great pre-season and proves to everyone especially himself that he can play. You are only as good as your last game and his last game was fantastic. Why must people only see the negative in his match against Hawthorn?