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He doesn't have exactly the same problem, Klopp would dream to have even 60 million to spend, and also Rodgers doesn't have to contend with most his best players getting poached by a rival in the same league

And the comparison between the two are ridiculous, put the medals on the table and count them and see who wins. You will only see the medals of one bloke on the table

And I don't think he's going through a bad patch, he's had precedents of this, and wasteful transfer spending
 
Like I said, that's where I differ from some on this issue. 12 weeks of shite football after 4 years of sustained improvement, I'm going to need a bigger sample size before I change my opinion of Rodgers managerial ability. In fact, before this his only bad spell came at Reading as a 35 year old, a baby in managerial terms. Since moving from Reading to Swansea he has been on a steady rise upwards and has been widely recognized as one of the best up and coming managers in the game until our form dropped this season.

Trophies or not, last season was the most impressive Liverpool side I've seen since Beardsley & Barnes were knocking it about when I first started following the club, and had we shown a fraction more consistency we would have been deserving title winners. Any manager who can put a side together capable of that sort of football deserves a grace period if it goes wrong as it has for us this season, because the potential rewards (if we back him and he gets us back to the level we were at 5-6 months ago) are so great.

More likely than hitting the panic button and turfing Rodgers, what I can foresee happening if this current form slump isn't reversed in the near future is the board saying "look, there are obvious defensive issues that aren't being fixed, if you want to keep your job (which we would prefer because you've shown obvious quality in many aspects of management despite your relative youth) then we're going to bring in another assistant coach to give you a hand getting the defensive aspect of the side sorted".

If he refuses then they say "ok, but this opportunity won't be offered again and we may have to think twice before releasing any more funds for you and the transfer committee to spend - if there isn't discernible improvement in the next x months then the next meeting we have will be discussing your resignation".
 
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4 years? He hasn't been with us for 4

Trophies are the only thing that matter, it is what this club live for, you don't get win s**t playing pretty football, particularly when you can't defend

Anyone who spent 120 mil and have a team that finished 2nd hovering 4 points above the drop zone is very very quickly depleting all the "grace" he deserves, if not already

The holy worshipping of him making us finish 2nd is just cringeworthy

He has already said he doesn't want a defensive coach, he didn't want a DoF, so how is he gonna work any better when he doesn't get his way? He is already failing terribly once he had his way, particularly in transfers
 

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I'm not worshipping him for finishing 2nd, but disregarding it as though it never happened or that it meant nothing just to suit your argument is equally foolish.

Over 100 goals and the closest we've been to winning the league in 25 years? But he didn't win it so it's irrelevant when discussing the ability of our manager :rolleyes:. Are you suggesting that if we had turned one of our 6 draws from last season into a win, all of a sudden that means Rodgers can coach? I suppose the runner up medals Rafa picked up in the CL and the EPL don't mean anything either? The margins between success and failure are much finer than that.

Fact is Rodgers took the pieces of a side that had finished 6th-8th in the previous 4 seasons and created a team that was on the same level as the title winners, and was only fractionally short of claiming a prize that has eluded this club for a quarter of a century. It's not silverware but it's certainly an achievement that demonstrates considerable managerial ability particularly for someone so young.

That's why people like me don't want to see Rodgers sacked at this stage. Blind faith has nothing to do with it, the club is taking a long term approach (hence the focus on youth) and based on the trajectory we have been on for all but the last 12 weeks of Rodgers 2 and a half years at the club, I'm still of the opinion he's the best man for the job. If we're still in this position 5-6 months from now then my opinion will probably have changed, but it's still far too soon to pull the plug in my opinion.
 
You do know there's the whole talk that it's Luis Suarez lifting the team rather than Rodgers, right? Increasingly credible argument, considering the lad was literally responsible for half of those 100 goals to begin with

But we didn't turn any of those 6 draws into wins, coz we threw those points away coz we couldn't defend. If your aunt has balls she'd be my uncle. And this season the goals have dried up and we are actually even worse at defending than last season, which is mind boggling. But somehow that doesn't register in your bias mind when you're just blindly defending him

Rafa has an actual CL medal and a real cup to show for it, along with a bunch of La Liga winning medals and UEFA Cup medals and FA Cup medals and s**t. 10 years ago he was what Diego Simeone is now, and even better. Those might worth a little bit more than, ya know, no medals. And it's a huge margin we're talking about

Yes he took a team full of mostly players that weren't signed by him and it's somehow completely his effort that we finished 2nd. Now the team is filled with signings from him after 200 million spent and now we are nowhere. I applaud his efforts. Kevin Keegan finished 2nd, he had no managerial ability. David O'Leary did well with Leeds, he has no managerial ability. Flash in the pans happen

It is blind faith to mindlessly defend the guy who just spent 120 mil and have us at a place worse than Hodgson did with us, it is inexcusable, particularly when he has had a track record of doing similarly at his old clubs, but you'll conveniently ignore that
 
I see both sides of the coins.

If you believe we finished second because of Suarez, well that is naive considering we had Suarez for the season and a half before last season and we didnt finish 2nd.

Rodgers definitely has a large say as to why we suddenly climbed up the league ladder last season. He has a system, a way of playing and I think he is a good man manager and tactically he seems quite astute considering the fantastic football we were playing last season.

Having said that, if you can credit him rather that Suarez for last season then this season I guess you have to blame him. But as ADL said, it's only been 12 league games so far. It's probably too small a window to sack him and move on.

I think if Rafa had returned instead of us hiring Rodgers and everything had still happened the way it has. Nobody would be calling for Rafa's head. You'd all say he is a genius, we almost won the league, he has won leagues before and CL's etc... It's just because Rodgers doesnt have the history of a top manager like Rafa that a lot of people turn on him straight away. So he is a victim of his own inexperience.

Im on the fence. I think right now im with ADL. It's too early to sack him. I think we all got a bit too much too soon. Nobody expected us to almost win the league last season, it was supposed to be a slow process up the ladder but we jumped several steps last season.

So now, the expectation are through the roof which has why this season so far has made us even more disappointed and crazy than normal.

We have issues though. We cant defend and BR's record in the transfer market is not great. He needs to turn it around quickly. We simply must beat Ludogorets and Stoke at home on the weekend. The whole squad's confidence is smashed and losing Sturridge for the whole season certainly hasnt helped us score goals.

Im still backing Rodgers. But if this continues and we havent improved at all by xmas. Then is might be time to change. I think the next month is huge for Rodgers and his future at LFC.
 
Suarez AND Sturridge, the only season we had them both in full we finished 2nd. Let's not forget Rodgers didn't wanna sign Sturridge either, he had to be convinced into it, like Balotelli

Of course if you don't have the cred and the medals on the table then you're gonna be under more pressure, particularly when he is the most well backed Liverpool manager for 22 years, at the very least financially

There is no excuse for the continual failure at the back and in midfield, and those are all manager's own decisions, selections, transfers, etc. He isn't even backing himself, and rightly so, he seems clueless as to how to arrest this slump
 
We have to remember we have 50 less goals in our XI than we did last year.
However, i think instead of signing a million and 1 unproven wingers/forwards (Suso, Alberto, Markovic, Assaiadi Aspas) we should have addressed our bigger needs. Which is pure goal scoring strikers and high quality proven premier league central defenders.
 

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this pretty much sums me up at the moment

tumblr_mby6r1xzbn1rossxb.gif
 
freshazimiz said:
Have you seen the video of Carra commenting about Gerrard's position?
Click to expand...

Yeah, basically that he was selected in the side as a deep lying playmaker last season because we had Sturridge and Suarez making runs ahead of him, he was there as the conductor of our play - not as a screen for the back 4. That system worked exceptionally well with those players, because having such dynamic strikers up front meant that teams had to drop deeper against us thus creating more space for Gerrard to play in. As a result, the system covered for his weaknesses and allowed us to take full advantage of his strengths. See Juventus' use of Pirlo for another example of how this works, despite his quality he too would be found wanting if asked to play in Gerrard's position in this Liverpool side. It's just not set up for a player with Pirlo or Gerrard's attributes to succeed.

Now we're playing with Balotelli, Lambert, Borini etc up front who quite frankly aren't offering much either with or without the ball, so opposing teams can push up safe in the knowledge that those 3 aren't going to hurt them by getting into the space behind - this closes the space for our midfield (and Gerrard in particular) to work in, exposing Gerrard's weaknesses and preventing us from taking advantage of his strengths, the flow on effects of this are affecting our entire team from front to back.

Until Sturridge is back, Carra thinks (and I 100% agree with him) that we should be playing Lucas or Can or someone like that instead with the task of protecting the back 4, because that's what this team needs at the moment. A player who can distribute the ball with pinpoint accuracy isn't going to be useful to us while we don't have strikers ahead of him who are capable of taking advantage of it.
 
ADL9798 said:
Yeah, basically that he was selected in the side as a deep lying playmaker last season because we had Sturridge and Suarez making runs ahead of him, he was there as the conductor of our play - not as a screen for the back 4. That system worked exceptionally well with those players, because having such dynamic strikers up front meant that teams had to drop deeper against us thus creating more space for Gerrard to play in. As a result, the system covered for his weaknesses and allowed us to take full advantage of his strengths. See Juventus' use of Pirlo for another example of how this works, despite his quality he too would be found wanting if asked to play in Gerrard's position in this Liverpool side. It's just not set up for a player with Pirlo or Gerrard's attributes to succeed.

Now we're playing with Balotelli, Lambert, Borini etc up front who quite frankly aren't offering much either with or without the ball, so opposing teams can push up safe in the knowledge that those 3 aren't going to hurt them by getting into the space behind - this closes the space for our midfield (and Gerrard in particular) to work in, exposing Gerrard's weaknesses and preventing us from taking advantage of his strengths, the flow on effects of this are affecting our entire team from front to back.

Until Sturridge is back, Carra thinks (and I 100% agree with him) that we should be playing Lucas or Can or someone like that instead with the task of protecting the back 4, because that's what this team needs at the moment. A player who can distribute the ball with pinpoint accuracy isn't going to be useful to us while we don't have strikers ahead of him who are capable of taking advantage of it.
Click to expand...
I hope for rodger's sake he is able to swallow his pride and move gerrard forward... Or to the pine. The back four could certainly use a chop out.
 
Lucas reportedly gave Rodgers a bit of a death stare as the team walked down the tunnel post match, all those blokes on the bench who performed at the Bernabeu are gonna be livid with the continual golden pass some of the players get in the first team while they get ****ed

I don't see him dropping Gerrard, but maybe Lovren or Johnson, one of them. If only Sakho was given as much of a pass in the first XI as Lovren has done

Doubt the dressing room is all that rosy atm either
 
You wonder how or if Rodgers sees any of this. I dont get why you have to swallow your pride. It's not swallowing your pride, it's recognising that it worked with SAS, it doesnt with the current forwards so move Gerrard further forward and stick Lucas in.

It doesnt seem hard.

Neville made a good point too about lead legs. We dont close down and chase anywhere near as much as we did last season. With Sturridge injured too, outside of Sterling we lack pace. Allen, Gerrard, Hendo, Lucas, Borini, Lambert, Lallana, Coutinho.... none of those blokes are super quick.

It's amazing how many problems we have. If Rodgers can fix us and get us playing well again then he is an out and out genius.
 
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