The AFL's anti-doping tribunal

[AdamMarrett]

Better question is can anyone outside of this thread show some proof?

Agreed.This thread is full of people hanging the Essendon 34 on hear say and innuendo,but the same hear say and innuendo cannot be used to find the players not guilty.Also yes I have a huge interest in this case as a Port Adelaide fan with 2 players and a huge recruit involved,but also I know a vendetta by opposition fans of Essendon when I see one.Countless threads about this subject are exactly that,also early days and it is lodged in documents for the 1st Hird/Essendon vs ASADA case is a guarentee from ASADA that any player who co-operated with investigators would only get a 6 month ban....selective memory by alot in this subject

 

[Devington]

Agreed.This thread is full of people hanging the Essendon 34 on hear say and innuendo,but the same hear say and innuendo cannot be used to find the players not guilty.Also yes I have a huge interest in this case as a Port Adelaide fan with 2 players and a huge recruit involved,but also I know a vendetta by opposition fans of Essendon when I see one.Countless threads about this subject are exactly that,also early days and it is lodged in documents for the 1st Hird/Essendon vs ASADA case is a guarentee from ASADA that any player who co-operated with investigators would only get a 6 month ban....selective memory by alot in this subject

There's an element of vindictiveness sure. But there are other factors. The way they ran things was shambolic, and Dank was given too much power. There is potential health issues for players, and it is worrying that one is suing (or at least is using it as a pretence) in order to get his medical records. The behaviour of all parties involved (Essendon, ASADA, the Government, and the AFL) leaves a lot to desire and raises a lot of questions.

Personally I'm in it for the schadenfreude, but usually keep that to North's sympathy thread. When I post here I'm generally doing it in good faith. As do a lot of others. For a few too many though it's turned into a bit of a game, or running joke.

For the record I think the players were doped (as in, substances banned by WADA were used on them). I don't know whether they will be found guilty though. I think they should, but it's hard to tell. More than anything I just want the public to be briefed on what actually happened and what the full brief of evidence was, which I'm under the impression will happen.

I also don't think the decision will be the end of things. If they are found guilty the mouth to hell will open up and an army of lawyers will come streaming out. IF they aren't found guilty it will be a slightly smaller hellmouth.

 

[Gavstar]

Agreed.This thread is full of people hanging the Essendon 34 on hear say and innuendo,but the same hear say and innuendo cannot be used to find the players not guilty.Also yes I have a huge interest in this case as a Port Adelaide fan with 2 players and a huge recruit involved,but also I know a vendetta by opposition fans of Essendon when I see one.Countless threads about this subject are exactly that,also early days and it is lodged in documents for the 1st Hird/Essendon vs ASADA case is a guarentee from ASADA that any player who co-operated with investigators would only get a 6 month ban....selective memory by alot in this subject

I'd think you would be more informed if you read a few more of the threads especially on what's required for "substantial assistance". There is a lot of evidence in the public domain but not all. Some think they knew since 2013 that the players were done for or others that they were going to be exonerated. Others like me have no idea which way the tribunal might go.

I'm sure that there are some picking fights for the sake of it but there are quite a few posters with interesting insights into many aspects of this saga.

I for one am more inclined to believe stuff up than "Black ops". Though sending samples to test for IGF levels raises ones eyebrows as drugs which raise those levels are banned. The Ziggy report and EFC being found to have brought the game into disrepute shows the club made mistakes.

Fundamentally the players relied on others and that trust was misplaced, and they didn't fully understand their responsibilities under anti-doping code and the person who could have helped their club doctor let himself be sidelined.

So now we wait and trust in the tribunal.

PS I also believe players were given banned drugs which they thought were not banned (eg AOD9604 any player who took this is a doper).

 

[AdamMarrett]

There's an element of vindictiveness sure. But there are other factors. The way they ran things was shambolic, and Dank was given too much power. There is potential health issues for players, and it is worrying that one is suing (or at least is using it as a pretence) in order to get his medical records. The behaviour of all parties involved (Essendon, ASADA, the Government, and the AFL) leaves a lot to desire and raises a lot of questions.

Personally I'm in it for the schadenfreude, but usually keep that to North's sympathy thread. When I post here I'm generally doing it in good faith. As do a lot of others. For a few too many though it's turned into a bit of a game, or running joke.

For the record I think the players were doped (as in, substances banned by WADA were used on them). I don't know whether they will be found guilty though. I think they should, but it's hard to tell. More than anything I just want the public to be briefed on what actually happened and what the full brief of evidence was, which I'm under the impression will happen.

I also don't think the decision will be the end of things. If they are found guilty the mouth to hell will open up and an army of lawyers will come streaming out. IF they aren't found guilty it will be a slightly smaller hellmouth.

I agree with Dank being given to much power,Hird shouldn't coach them etc etc and the whole situation that caused this mess is a step to far.But I also believe alot of this case is hear say,political point scoring,and used as no more then political power.The case itself is flimsy at best.Armstrong was pinned on eye witness testimony,no failed tests.I use that as a example and my drift flows from that point.I feel these lads will be found not guilty as the evidence is lacking.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Not at all but I feel it would be the opposite if anything if it was based on timing, not timing of the AFL season though.

If the players were innocent you would announce it straight away so their provisional suspensions can be lifted.

I personally think timing has nothing to do with it though, especially not based on the AFL season

You have no idea how it works so why voice an incorrect opinion.

Regardless if the guilty or not guilty verdict the court still has to lodge paperwork etc. its not as simple as oh your not guilty well just announce it straight away.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The interest in putting this away once and for all. If it's a "not guilty" whitewash, then ASADA and WADA will come in and keep it running for another year or two.

I think what they want is a small ban and get this thing over with.


Are you questioning the 3 guys on the panel? I thought they had pretty respectable credentials.

hahaha

If its a not guilty verdict i would hope you lot have the balls to cop it on the chin like we will be if they are guilty. The whining is becoming unbearable.

 

[imperial_oz]

You have no idea how it works so why voice an incorrect opinion.

Regardless if the guilty or not guilty verdict the court still has to lodge paperwork etc. its not as simple as oh your not guilty well just announce it straight away.

No...thats silly.

Its NOT a court. Its a tribunal. It has zero judicial powers and is not bound by any of the constraints you mentioned.

In the event of decision that the players did not breach the code, they should have been cleared to play in the NAB Challenge. The reasons could be published later. Failure to lift the restrictions on players and hamper their preparation for the season would be highly unprofessional and completely unjustified by the rules pertaining to the tribunal. Effectively a miscarriage of justice and leaving the AFL open to a lawsuit for that that reason.

In fact if I was a player and was cleared on Tuesday, I would do just that as the actual decision was known weeks ago and I as a player would have been unfairly hampered.

 

[Asada Mao]

Why does the AFL need to sign up to the WADA code, when the AFL is only played in Australia and is not yet a world wide popular sport?

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

Pens don't do emails, just a tip

The new-fangled ones do - they have a rubber tip and pop right out of the huge flat phone thingies!!

 

[Seadog]

You

Why does the AFL need to sign up to the WADA code, when the AFL is only played in Australia and is not yet a world wide popular sport?

You're onto it mate, where have you been for the last 2 years.

 

[fabulousphil]

Whatever the tribunal finds I haven’t seen one bit of evidence that says that in any way whatever was injected, had any knowledge that it may have been anything other than legal and appropriate,”

“It’s not a defence under the code ... I’ve read the majority of the evidence and ASADA have never alleged that the players actually had a knowing part in it.”

I have actually been saying the same thing for over 2 years on these boards and quite frankly i have had very few likes, shame on you HTB with your hateful and nasty ways.

I hope Caro gets sued

Over and out

 

[fabulousphil]

There's an element of vindictiveness sure. But there are other factors.

FME on the HTB it would be 95% vindictive against Essendon, 4.5 % actually concern for the players, it is human nature and i understand it.

ashamed to say but i have noticed some real tree hugging, land rights for gay whales mentality from Freo fans, very soft, they make up .5%

Lyon should look at that.

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

Cool, but are there any more charges than just administering? It would surprise me if there wasn't.

I would guess that trafficking is in there too.

 

[TTRRAAVVIISS]

Why does the AFL need to sign up to the WADA code, when the AFL is only played in Australia and is not yet a world wide popular sport?

Because the AFL gets money from government to build stadiums that then rip off the clubs (unless you get sweet deals like collingwood and EFC) and rip off fans by charging high fees for food and parking. Also pretty sure Government invests money in things like Auskick and footy clubs at grass roots. For example, nsw government invested heaps in upgrading spotless for gws and putting goal posts at local cricket grounds in gws.

Government rightfully has said "you want us to invest community/public money in your code then you have to buy into the wada code just like olympic sports have too". Simple as that. AFL wants government money and to break into prosperus markets (i.e. GWS) you gotta sign the wada code.

I, like the Government/asada, want a clean sport.

I dont want AFL like NFL where you get maybe a 4 week suspension for steriods and come back as though nothing happened.

You watch jarrod haynes body shape change dramatically now he's in NFL. And why? Cause there is multi million dollar deals to be had and little to no repercussions.NFL doesn't give a toss for wada or the health of its players.

Without the wada code you'd get an AFL full of steriod abusers. Sh!t, we got a whole friggin team on doping charges and we have the wada code. Imagine how drug infested the AFL would be if we have no code???

I assume most footy fans think the same as me, though I could be wrong. End of the day, if and when I have kids I wouldnt want them juicing up to play AFL. Its not just about "cheating" but more so the long term health of the players etc

 

[gavaniacono]

There's an element of vindictiveness sure. But there are other factors. The way they ran things was shambolic, and Dank was given too much power. There is potential health issues for players, and it is worrying that one is suing (or at least is using it as a pretence) in order to get his medical records. The behaviour of all parties involved (Essendon, ASADA, the Government, and the AFL) leaves a lot to desire and raises a lot of questions.

Personally I'm in it for the schadenfreude, but usually keep that to North's sympathy thread. When I post here I'm generally doing it in good faith. As do a lot of others. For a few too many though it's turned into a bit of a game, or running joke.

For the record I think the players were doped (as in, substances banned by WADA were used on them). I don't know whether they will be found guilty though. I think they should, but it's hard to tell. More than anything I just want the public to be briefed on what actually happened and what the full brief of evidence was, which I'm under the impression will happen.

I also don't think the decision will be the end of things. If they are found guilty the mouth to hell will open up and an army of lawyers will come streaming out. IF they aren't found guilty it will be a slightly smaller hellmouth.

I'm one of the people that thinks it's a joke. Essendon is a joke at the mo. Simply because they make assurances abt players health and such things when they don't know what was used. Hird is also a joke. People who are that narcissistic and think that they are exceptional deserve to be mocked and I will continue to do so even knowing it has no substantive effect on anything.

 

[gavaniacono]

FME on the HTB it would be 95% vindictive against Essendon, 4.5 % actually concern for the players, it is human nature and i understand it.

ashamed to say but i have noticed some real tree hugging, land rights for gay whales mentality from Freo fans, very soft, they make up .5%

Lyon should look at that.

A like for the bit abt freo and Lyon. Quite good.

 

[gavaniacono]

Why does the AFL need to sign up to the WADA code, when the AFL is only played in Australia and is not yet a world wide popular sport?

To catch drug cheats and then break their balls.

 

[The full package]

Pens don't do emails, just a tip

Are you telling me I don't have to buy a new monitor every time I write an email

 

[bing181]

it is lodged in documents for the 1st Hird/Essendon vs ASADA case is a guarentee from ASADA that any player who co-operated with investigators would only get a 6 month ban....

No it's not.

ASADA have never guaranteed anything of the sort - not least of all because ... it's not ASADA who hand down the penalty, it's the Tribunal.

In any case, co-operation is meaningless. For a reduction they have to do a lot more than just "co-operate", they have to "provide substantial assistance" (i.e., acknowledge their own guilt, then dob other players in). Or for "no fault or negligence", for starters they have to show that they did everything they could and everything they needed to do - such as contacting ASADA to check the substances. Which, er, they didn't do.

Don't know where all these half-baked posters are coming from. At least Mxett and co have been here the whole time and are up to speed on the case.

 

[bing181]

I have actually been saying the same thing for over 2 years on these boards ...

And for two years people have been telling you it's irrelevant. As Gill confirmed.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Isnt that why this 'new' record keeping rule has come in.

Alos whats stopping people/cubs from writing on the records something slightly different to actually what they are being administered?

They would have to produce invoices for the drugs supplied. And doctors and nurses records of injection etc. Be a hell of an operation to control. One person with a big mouth would ruin it.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

No it's not.

ASADA have never guaranteed anything of the sort - not least of all because ... it's not ASADA who hand down the penalty, it's the Tribunal.

In any case, co-operation is meaningless. For a reduction they have to do a lot more than just "co-operate", they have to "provide substantial assistance" (i.e., acknowledge their own guilt, then dob other players in). Or for "no fault or negligence", for starters they have to show that they did everything they could and everything they needed to do - such as contacting ASADA to check the substances. Which, er, they didn't do.

Don't know where all these half-baked posters are coming from. At least Mxett and co have been here the whole time and are up to speed on the case.

I want a new poster to come in and say that Hird has already been punished.

 

[DapperJong]

if the players get off because they were 'duped', then they were duped by the Essendon football club and its employees.

The entire club should be banned for 2 years.

Here's an example of the higher the hatred, the higher the stupidity.

 

[Thrawn]

It doesn't matter if they were duped. If they were found to be duped, it means they were found to have injected banned substances. They'll still get a penalty regardless.

 

[DapperJong]

Yeah ok, and what do you think should happen if the players were in fact 'duped' and were unwittingly pumped full of banned and untested subtances by Essendon employees?

This should be good....

Of course there should be a penalty, that's the law of the anti-doping code the AFL has in place. I'm just wondering which part of your arse you got "the entire club should be banned for 2 years" from.