LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
The positive with Hooper being suspended will be that we can see our depth outside those two. Plus Pocock is a better option against NZ
Test Rugby Wallabies Rugby World Cup discussion
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LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Doubt he will get away with it, despite the Argentinian players taking lessons from soccer players all game long! I mean the bloke that Folau hit a millisecond late rolled around like he was shot in the head only to be fine 3 seconds later!
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If Hooper does get suspended, if Toomua & Slipper aren't right to play after their head knocks and Genia is still out, I'd go with the following for the All Blacks:
1. Sio
2. Moore
3. Holmes
4. Skelton
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Pocock
8. McCalman
9. Phipps
10. Cooper
11. Tomane
12. Giteau
13. Kuridrani
14. Ashley-Cooper
15. Folau
16. Polota-Nau
17. Kepu
18. Faulkner
19. Mumm
20. McMahon
21. White
22. Foley
23. Horne
Although Henry Speight is back and able to be picked for this Test, isn't he?
1. Sio
2. Moore
3. Holmes
4. Skelton
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Pocock
8. McCalman
9. Phipps
10. Cooper
11. Tomane
12. Giteau
13. Kuridrani
14. Ashley-Cooper
15. Folau
16. Polota-Nau
17. Kepu
18. Faulkner
19. Mumm
20. McMahon
21. White
22. Foley
23. Horne
Although Henry Speight is back and able to be picked for this Test, isn't he?
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Why are we changing the halves AGAIN! Purely in general play (and for the record I hate him goalkicking) Foley was pretty good. I don't rate Cooper's unstructured play as a starting 10. Give Foley a chance, he will be better for the run as well. Wouldn't have Quade in the squad. Would rather have someone like Horne on the bench, genuinely covers a few positions.
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- #231
Yeh I only didn't have Foley in because of his goal kicking, but it's probably better to keep him in. Phipps/Foley/Giteau could be interesting.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Giteau can goalkick. It isn't perfect and I don't think Giteau is fantastic either but then again Quade is not much better than Foley. Fact is we have ZERO good goalkickers. It is a huge weakness and one I have no idea why they don't practice, practice, and practice.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
I'm 50/50 on him. Just doesn't seem to be more than what my dad says 'at best a 6/10 player'. I sort of agree. He is solid don't get me wrong, but he will be never more than solid. The issue is we have AAK, Kuridrani, etc who are all solid too.
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- #235
If Foley and Giteau get picked, having Horne back in the starting side to take one of the midfield defensive spots would be a good move (if he's fit). A Foley/Giteau combo is very small, All Blacks would target the s**t out of them.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Don't think Giteau is that bad a defender now. That was one thing that impressed me against South Africa from him. It was his attack that was non existant, his defence was good. Not as if SA are 'small' in the centres.
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- #237
I think the AB's would make a more concerted effort to use their backrow to target our midfield though. SA are relatively conservative in that sense and will keep their forwards tighter. In particular Kieran Read (a ******* stud), Liam Messam and Victor Vito get wide and can be brutally effective in the backline. Even Richie can do it.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Thing is this notion that Toomua is this elite defender is weird, he isn't. He might just be fractionally better than Giteau, might. He misses tackles and has bad reads quite a bit. Kieran Read will hurt anyone, he is the best player in the world for a good reason. At least not having our number 6/8 in Higginbotham standing in the backline may help.
Maester
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I would start with Cooper and have it be his last chance to nail down the 10 jersey. We know what we'll get with Foley - he is a good option, but he hasn't played well enough to lock down the position and isn't as good as Quade at his best. Larkham and Cheika favoured Quade Cooper initially for a reason. If he fails against the AB's then I'd back Foley all the way for the World Cup.
And I think Speight will start on the wing.
And I think Speight will start on the wing.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Can we not go back to Quade, it was a disaster. We played better against Argentina. I would stick with the same side, with the exception of Toomua for Giteau as I can't see Toomua being fit first and foremost. Horne onto the bench as cover in the centres.
Speight needs to show form, hasn't played in over a month. Don't think we are rushing him back when Tomane and AAK are doing well.
Maester
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I don't think Quade was a disaster against South Africa at all. I think he played okay. Then Foley played okay against Argentina. Cooper did not play well against Argentina but he was playing at 12 and I think we now know that he shouldn't be playing there. Larkham has said that at training Cooper was a couple of steps ahead of everyone else and was picking up the new structure of play better than anyone. I think it's worth giving him another chance at 10.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
No it is not worth giving Quade another go. We went through 3 years of giving him another chance. In general play Foley was good last week, his lack of ability as a goalkicker shouldn't be the reason to drop him when Cooper is just as bad. He combines well with Nick Phipps and Isreal Folau. It is no surprise Folau had his best game for a while with Foley there. Again we just won with a bonus point....why are we changing the halves that got us that BP? Makes literally no sense.
No changes unless tommua isn't fit. Would have Giteau on the bench in Quades spot.
Maester
Team Captain
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Well the week before we beat the 2nd best team in the world. So why change the halves that got us that much more impressive win?
A few weeks ago you yourself had Cooper in at 10!
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Yes and guess what I was being realistic. He was horrific as was your great Genia ( talk about Mr Past It). We don't need to change a side that just won overseas.
If Cooper is back we have literally no hope. Would rather Giteau play 10 and I hate that idea.
Maester
Team Captain
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You weren't being realistic - you had Naiyaravoro on the wing! That was clearly the team you wanted picked at the time.
Foley did not play that well against Argentina, despite us being very dominant in the game (whereas Cooper was playing tougher opposition and was under a lot more pressure given South Africa's edge up front...and yet he still played okay). I also think that if Toomua is going to be 12 that Cooper is the better fit. If Foley starts I'd rather have Giteau at 12. I think those combinations give better balance than either Foley/Toomua or Cooper/Giteau. I like having the mix of a direct playmaker and one with a bit more flair and width.
You also said we had no hope of beating South Africa a couple of weeks ago so if Cooper is picked lets hope you'll be wrong again.
Foley did not play that well against Argentina, despite us being very dominant in the game (whereas Cooper was playing tougher opposition and was under a lot more pressure given South Africa's edge up front...and yet he still played okay). I also think that if Toomua is going to be 12 that Cooper is the better fit. If Foley starts I'd rather have Giteau at 12. I think those combinations give better balance than either Foley/Toomua or Cooper/Giteau. I like having the mix of a direct playmaker and one with a bit more flair and width.
You also said we had no hope of beating South Africa a couple of weeks ago so if Cooper is picked lets hope you'll be wrong again.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
If SA didn't play drunk in the last 10 they win. Not as if we outplayed them and Cooper was pathetic as he was last weekend. Just like your love Genia (who was horrible again), Cooper isn't great either. Inconsistent and not the greatest idea against a consistent Kiwi side. Folau plays better with Foley. Folau is our most dangerous player we have to make the team around him.
Maester
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You're being ridiculous. To say Cooper was pathetic against the Springboks is just wrong. Sometimes I wonder if you even watch the games. According to most people he played better against SA than Foley did against Argentina. Evidence of that is the respective player rankings, voted on by hundreds of fans, at Green and Gold Rugby.
My love Genia? Yeah, that makes sense. I'm a fan of Phipps. But I thought Genia was worth trying in that first game because 1) he has a long standing combination with Cooper, 2) I prefer him to Nic White and we can't put all our eggs in one basket, and 3) if he could get back to his best he'd be one of the best in the world - and he's only 27. But Phipps was clearly better against South Africa and deserves to be the first in line now.
Folau has barely played with Cooper so you're really stretching things there. Folau had a great game against South Africa too. It's also pretty clear that he's played a lot of his best rugby alongside Kurtley Beale, but I don't see much chance of Beale starting matches unless a few others fall over.
My love Genia? Yeah, that makes sense. I'm a fan of Phipps. But I thought Genia was worth trying in that first game because 1) he has a long standing combination with Cooper, 2) I prefer him to Nic White and we can't put all our eggs in one basket, and 3) if he could get back to his best he'd be one of the best in the world - and he's only 27. But Phipps was clearly better against South Africa and deserves to be the first in line now.
Folau has barely played with Cooper so you're really stretching things there. Folau had a great game against South Africa too. It's also pretty clear that he's played a lot of his best rugby alongside Kurtley Beale, but I don't see much chance of Beale starting matches unless a few others fall over.
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LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Cooper stifles the attack it is all 'me me me' with him. It won't work consistently. If you follow rugby league he is the Chris Sandow of Rugby Union. Good 1 game in 3 or 4 and everyone wants to make love to him...pity about the other games where his style is terrible.
Genia was a dreadful choice I'm thankful the hack is out hope he is out for longer. He was that bad it wasn't funny which followed his horrendous season for Qld...
You build your side around Folau. He is out match winner. Plays better with Foley, he starts.
Genia was a dreadful choice I'm thankful the hack is out hope he is out for longer. He was that bad it wasn't funny which followed his horrendous season for Qld...
You build your side around Folau. He is out match winner. Plays better with Foley, he starts.
Maester
Team Captain
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He's a much better player than Chris Sandow.
Folau apparently playing better with Foley is a new one that you've just made up. First of all the combination between 10 and 15 is not very significant in a match, and secondly Folau has hardly played with Cooper. When he has, in the Springboks game for example, he played just as well as he did against Argentina with Foley starting.
The reason I would rather see Cooper start against NZ in a couple of weeks is because if he played well in that match his confidence would remain sky high for the world cup. And at his best he is a superior player to Foley in virtually every way. He's a better kicker, a better passer, has better vision, is physically bigger, is faster, more elusive and I think even his defence is better these days. The question is whether he has the ability to play to Cheika and Larkham's system and manage the team around the field without losing his head. I think he's a more mature character these days and could do it, but we'll only know if he can do it against the All Blacks. If he can't then Foley or even Toomua wouldn't let us down at 10. But Cooper has the greater potential upside.
Folau apparently playing better with Foley is a new one that you've just made up. First of all the combination between 10 and 15 is not very significant in a match, and secondly Folau has hardly played with Cooper. When he has, in the Springboks game for example, he played just as well as he did against Argentina with Foley starting.
The reason I would rather see Cooper start against NZ in a couple of weeks is because if he played well in that match his confidence would remain sky high for the world cup. And at his best he is a superior player to Foley in virtually every way. He's a better kicker, a better passer, has better vision, is physically bigger, is faster, more elusive and I think even his defence is better these days. The question is whether he has the ability to play to Cheika and Larkham's system and manage the team around the field without losing his head. I think he's a more mature character these days and could do it, but we'll only know if he can do it against the All Blacks. If he can't then Foley or even Toomua wouldn't let us down at 10. But Cooper has the greater potential upside.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
You are wanting to play someone to keep them happy and confident...say WHAT! How about he plays if he shows some form and I'll be frank...he showed NOTHING this year and that is being generous. 'At his best'...yeah 1 game in 4. That is the whole point, he is not consistent. We have to have a consistent number 10, that is by far an away the most important thing. Would be more than happy with Toomua if Foley in't the one. Don't want Cooper, not consistent. Needs to show consistency for 4-6 weeks.
Folau was much better against Argentina. He is allowed space to run, and Foley isn't crabbing across field. We need to use our backline and Folau is our number 1 weapon. We play the fly half that works best with Folau.
Folau was much better against Argentina. He is allowed space to run, and Foley isn't crabbing across field. We need to use our backline and Folau is our number 1 weapon. We play the fly half that works best with Folau.
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