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Wiseby - Draft 2004 Roundup

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Knackers

Team Captain
Feb 21, 2002
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Right side of yarra
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Scraggers,Dogs,Bullies
Excited to read his thoughts on Ryan Griffen :



Date Posted: 00:59:56 03/01/05 Tue
Author: Colin Wisbey
Subject: My predictions for 2004 draftees

Predictions for “U18” 2004 AFL draftees.

I judge them to have “made AFL” if they have become a regular member of their team in at least two seasons (i.e. not merely occasional games when their club's list is decimated by injuries or due to just their size or pace). Players I did not see enough of (eg Ablett, Rusling) are excluded.

The categories reflect players about whom I feel most confident in making predictions.

This was a flaky draft, not unlike 2000 but with a greater number of identified quality players at the top end. I think there were a number of serious bargains and wouldn't be surprised if more good AFL players emerge from picks 42-55 than from picks 20-41.

Popular opinion would dictate that the following predictions should include
WILLIAMS, Tom (6) [WBD]. Tom is a virtually untested newcomer whose '04 was disrupted by injury. Promises to be special. May be. Went much earlier than the sort of drafting risk I'd be prepared to take. I have excluded Tom from my lists as anyone's assessment of him is based on only about 20 possessions. He has done literally a handful of very special things and is a conscientious, quick learner but I need to see more than a tiny number of cameo flashes before I could feel confident enough to categorise him.

Will be TOP SHELF i.e. household names (in order or my level of confidence):

I rate Griffen and Junior Smith as complete packages, although Deledio and Tambling are almost complete. There was no “complete package” gimme last year. At this stage at least, Griffen's kicking is more reliable than Deledio or Tambling but I rate my top 4 in virtually the same bracket. I believe all are capable of reaching genuinely top-bracket status in the AFL.

GRIFFEN, Ryan (3) [WBD] Complete footballer. My top pick - in a heartbeat.
DELEDIO, Brett (1) [Ric] Dynamic 6/2" onballer / utility. Great range of attributes. Exciting, versatile.
SMITH, Jesse.W (42 F/S) [Kan] Neville Stibbard should feel embarrassed getting such quality with pick 42. Completely fearless, athletic, smart, dashing, versatile.
TAMBLING, Richard (4) [Ric] Vanilla-size excitement machine.
THOMSON, Adam (11) [Por] Generally under-rated 6' creative, super-efficient inside maestro.
ROUGHEAD, Jarryd (2) [Haw] Versatile improving marking KPP with good intensity.
FRANKLIN, Lance (5) [Haw] Enigmatic X-factor. May be hard work but worth it. Game-breaker.
WOOD, Cameron (18) [Bri] Bottom-age smart ruck. How did he get through to pick 18?

Will be AT LEAST GOOD (in very roughly the order of my level of confidence):
(A couple are extremely late picks but I call it as I see it).

MCQUALTER, Andrew (17) [Stk] Skilled predator midfielder. Inconspicuous ball magnet. Smart, adaptable, superior user. I was very tempted to put him in the top group. Has been mainly predator and is capable of a higher hurt factor. I think he'll adapt to AFL requirements like a duck to water.
EGAN, Chris (10) [Col] Somewhat enigmatic special talent. Has X-factor.
BETTS, Eddie (Pre-season) [Car] Unwanted size but freakishly talented FP/rover. If he can stay focussed, is definite AFL despite size. I rated him at 17 in my rankings. THE bargain of the draft.
MEESEN, John (8) [Ade] Gets my nod as currently the best all-round ruck due to around the ground ability. Wood probably has more upside.
BATE, Matthew (13) [Mel] Rapidly emerging bottom-age physical athlete. Versatile but raw. I see him primarily as a potential FB.
RUSSELL, Jordan (9) [Car] Athletic 6'2" utility. Flawed kicking and light but a versatile quick dasher.
IACOBUCCI, Adam (55) [Col] Injury-prone vanilla-size quick utility. Accountable quiet achiever. I rated him at 16 in my rankings. Bargain.
ECKERMANN, Ben (51) [Por] Compulsive run-the-lines smallish dasher. Underrated. I rated him at 17 in my rankings. Bargain.
CLOKE, Travis (39 F/S) [Col] Bullish, marking bottom-age KPP. Hasn't yet shown the form most of my other nominations have, but I'm confident he will.
DELUCA, Fabian (35) [Por] Improving 17yo ruck. Height, mobility. Promising but, at this stage at least, is a fair way behind Wood and Meesen.
NEWTON, Michael (43) [Mel] Athletic marking KPP. Inconsistent and I'm not sure if he is a team player but attractive package and upside. Bargain.
PERKINS, Justin (R36) [Kan] '22" athletic, hard-running HBF who can play tallish. Is only a Rookie and is already 22yo (barely) so he may perhaps seem lucky to make this list but I've always felt he was under-rated. Won't be a star but is a very cheap pickup and well worth it. Bargain.
GIBSON, Chad (28) [Ade] Raw but quick, athletic bam-bam potential CHB. Great height / great build bottom-age combination of serious athleticism and intensity. And a team player. Groin injury for many months leading up to '04 Champs so underdone.

Popular opinion would dictate that I should include
MONFRIES, Angus (14) [Ess] Slowish but smart midfielder. Angus is well-credentialed and will definitely play AFL and be consistent but he isn't quick and, although a regular high possession gatherer, doesn't hurt enough for my money.

VERY SKINNY BUT genuine AFL potential .... if (!) they can bulk up sufficiently. (in draft order) -.

LITTLE, Matt (26) [Haw] Under-height and very skinny leading, clean-marking deadly forward with exceptional ability to read the play and the flight. Maybe only one trick but it's a good one.
LIMBACH, Dean (52) [Ric] Versatile marking tall. Shown great promise but only in cameo. Officially has a 6cm reach disadvantage but, if he wasn't so damn skinny or I could be sure he could bulk up enough, he'd definitely be in the group above.
BATCHELOR, Nick (R29) [Gee] Tenacious road-runner. Ultra skinny but great ethic on/off-field.

EARLY PICK QUERIES (in draft order) – I wouldn’t be that surprised if they make it but I have concerns whereas many people would label them "definite" or nearly so:

LEWIS, Jordan (7) [Haw] (see below)
POLO, Dean (20) [Ric] Fearless, 187cm determined goer who plays tallish. Skinny but he's someone who can probably get away with not being as bulky as other players. I greatly admire his style of play (aggressive at both man and ball) and he is clean but, although he is genuinely dual-sided, his kicking action and flailing running style really need a lot of work.
VAN BERLO, Nathan (24) [Ade] Top-age link-man who plays a predator role off the pack. Too off the pack. This assessment will seem a tough call on someone who looks a million dollars, has an attractive range of skills and athleticism and has WAFL Seniors form. I think he could perhaps be even top-shelf at WAFL standard. He just hasn't convinced me re his potential at AFL tempo. Reads the play quite well, moves very well, is super fit even by any AFL criteria. Doesn't get enough of his own pill though. Quality kid, great all-round athletic ability and commitment and doesn't get ahead of himself. A balanced mover who receives or gathers the (usually loose) ball then feeds off efficiently or does an attractive-style, balanced (although not reliably accurate) kick. Can pick up a lot of fairly cheap stats without having much impact. Gets knocked off the ball at this stage but I am not concerned about that as he looks able to bulk up. However, he is vanilla-size, doesn't have special pace or carry the ball much, seems unaccountable, is not reliable overhead, has poor tackling technique on a moving target (although that can be improved) and is quite clean but not special at ground level.

These caused me MUCH ANGST IN ASSESSING (in draft order)

WILLIAMS, Tom (6) [WBD] (see above)
LEWIS, Jordan (7) [Haw] Slow, powerful "ruckrover". Like Moore, great U18 form but will it translate? I have doubts. Jordan was on my draft-day rankings but down at 41. I seriously doubt he will prove to have been worth a first round pick, let alone pick 7, but nor am I particularly confident he won't make it either.
MONFRIES, Angus (14) [Ess] (see above)
DUNN, Lynden (15) [Mel] Improving key forward. Been unconvincing except in patches but is very bottom-age. I eventually ranked him at 28 in a flaky draft but I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it or doesn't.
PATTISON, Adam (16) [Ric] Rapidly-improving 198cm utility. At U18 level, I really admire Adam. My problem in assessing his AFL potential lies in determining a specific AFL role for him and I kept dropping him down in my rankings accordingly, settling at 42. Is he a jack of all trades etc? I'm not sure he has the class for CHF and he was starved of sufficient opportunities in the ruck at U18 level to get a confident handle on his AFL rucking potential. I suspect he will make AFL, I find heaps of attributes to like in him, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised one way or the other.
LEE, Andrew (30) [Ess] Talented serial under-performer. The chocolates smell nice but the box is hard to open. Definitely has the natural talent re skill and athleticism and can play either end (although I think he is best suited to full-back). Not a great reader of the play but, on balance, I suspect he can make it and won't be surprised if it suddenly clicks for him and he goes on to be very good even. Time to start producing for more than 15 minutes every few games though, Andrew.
MOORE, Jarred (31) [Syd] Smallish chunky, mainly predator, onballer. Natural sportsman and, like Lewis, great U18 form. Will it translate? Will he have weight-management problems? Running style needs work (eg Regularly splays his left foot badly. Helps his take-off but costs him speed over ground. Might be genetic?). I'm not writing him off but I have serious doubts about him sustaining an AFL career.

UP AGAINST IT (from National draft, in draft order) – I’d like to see every committed draftee succeed but these would surprise me:

MURPHY, Thomas (21) [Haw] Honest and disciplined but, at 189cm and lacking pace, is too small for KP and too slow for a flanker. Hawks paid a very high price for him IMHO.
HARTLETT, Adam (25) [Car] Top-age inconsistent tall. Appears to be too flaky for mine. Best is impressive but too spasmodic.
ROSA, Matt (29) [WCE] 189cm skinny outside ball magnet. Good U18 form, big stats, but not special enough for AFL and doesn't hurt enough (especially those floater kicks).
EZARD, James (34) [Por] Can be slippery and is a determined tackler but I think he lacks the class, cleanness and consistent ball-winning ability needed at his size for AFL.
LECRAS, Mark (37) [WCE] Hard runner, works hard off-field and accumulates stats but routinely wastes / turns over his kicks. Doesn't hurt nearly enough for AFL. Reads play well but has poor vision and awareness.
MARIC, Ivan (40) [Ade] Lion-hearted athletic trier who is a late starter and has bulked up a lot recently but lacks the class for AFL. Not a great reader of the play or the flight. Can take a speccy but is not routinely a good judge of a mark. Dicey kick. Very mobile but pace is only so-so.
SHERMAN, Justin (45) [Bri] Has always promised but is a chronic disappointer.
KNIGHTS, Chris (56) [Ade] Injury-impaired '04. Reads ball well and is good in-close but kicking is not reliable enough and his hurt factor needs to improve. Lacks pace (although his poor floppy running style could be improved).
COPPING, Benet (59) [Fre] Skinny mobile, athletic marking tall but I can't identify an AFL role. A couple of years ago he looked likely to be the "next big thing" but he seems to have stagnated since. Lacks strength and, most importantly, intensity.

BARGAINS (Late picks i.e. >40, excluding F/S, who could belie their draft position) (in draft order).

NEWTON, Michael (43) [Mel] (see above)
SLATTERY, Henry (46) [Ess] 6' reliable handyman and cleans up after. Won't be special but will be solid.
ECKERMANN, Ben (51) [Por] (see above)
LIMBACH, Dean (52) [Ric] (see above)
IACOBUCCI, Adam (55) [Col] (see above)
BETTS, Eddie (Pre-season) [Car]. (see above). THE bargain of the draft (assuming he is committed). Never mind the quantity, feel the quality. Routinely does the impossible and will possibly win more games off his own boot than all but about 10 players in this entire draft.
PERKINS, Justin (R36) [Kan] (see above). (Yes, I know he is a 22yo rookie).

ROOKIES WITH A FUTURE (Rookies who I think might make AFL) (in draft order):
NB: I realise these are very big calls because they need the opportunity as well as the ability.

NYE, Ryan (R 5) [Ade] Strong 6' defender/utility. Pace is the concern and little exposed form but is a cool, intelligent, genuine footballer and excellent user.
JUNIPER, Jack (R24) [Fre] Very raw, enigmatic athlete with much untapped potential. Decent chance if 100% committed ... but is he???
BATCHELOR, Nick (R29) [Gee] Tenacious road-runner. Ultra skinny but great ethic on/off-field.
PERKINS, Justin (R36) [Kan] (see above). The Rookie in whom I have the most confidence.
MCMAHON, Scott (R38) [Kan] Vanilla size, slowish quarterback/midfielder. Generally pays opponents little respect (backs his judgement at all times) but reliable, smart.
GRUNDY, Heath (R42) [Syd] Tough blue-collar KPP. May be best as FB or 3rd tall defender. Deserved to be picked up in National draft IMHO. Underrated.

MISSED OUT on being drafted but I rate them

TAYLOR, Craig. Was always most unlikely to be taken due to lack of pace (although ordinary running style can be improved) but I actually rate him highly. Tough, clean, smart, strong, and excellent user. His type often dramatically drop their aspirations and commitment when they miss out. I hope he doesn't and that an AFL club looking for a skilled, Burns-like inside user will give him a chance next year.
REDDEN, Thomas. Very bottom-age 191cm, wiry midfielder. Unproven but smart and works hard, albeit skinny and raw. Plays very much in the style of Michael Tuck. Surprised he was overlooked and I suspect he will cost a club a first round pick (perhaps top 10) next year when he could have been taken with an 80s pick this year. I rated him at 26 in my rankings.
SWALLOW, Andrew. Lightning-quick very bottom-age young goer. I'm not surprised he wasn't drafted as he is a shocking kick. However, IMHO a fundamental flaw in his kicking style is the root of his problem and I am confident it can be improved sufficiently.
CORRIE, Marty. Clever, classy indigenous top-age vanilla-size cool user with a commitment query. If I KNEW he'd adapt to city life and commit himself, I'd rate him genuine AFL. If I KNEW not, no pick. That's my only issue with him.

I also believe Shannon Cox and Lukas Teague deserved to be rookied ahead of many who were.
 
Pity there is no mention of Wells, Mc Cormack or Tiller. Makes for good reading though.

Can anybody advise me how to access his views on previous drafts?
 
from what i've seen so far, i'm impressed with mccormack, he's a real goer, tiller, wells and williams need some time but i can see positives with them as well.
Should be an interesting group to watch in the future.

griffen is the obvious standout and will play a lot of afl this year.
 

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The good thing about our increased depth this year is that Griffen will have to force his way into the side. At the moment I can't see him lining up in round 1.
 
This is a stupid question as i feel i should know the answer, Who is Wiseby?
 
dogupya said:
This is a stupid question as i feel i should know the answer, Who is Wiseby?

Bloke which watches alot of Junior footy (TAC Cup and such) thus knows abit about the draft picks.


BulldogMike said:
I think Griffen will be the best player from this draft and have the biggest impact out of all the draftees this season.

Griffin might well be the best player from this draft but im happy Richmond went with Deledio.

I wanted Deledio @ 1, Griffin @ 4 but happy with the way thing turned out.

Id also agree Griffin looks the most likly to make the biggest impact in '05.


Mitcha said:
The good thing about our increased depth this year is that Griffen will have to force his way into the side. At the moment I can't see him lining up in round 1.

Griffin is in your best 22. He may have to work his way into the side but is a current better player than; Jordan McMahon, Cameron Faulkner, Daniel Cross,, Ben Harrison types.
 
Bentleigh said:
Bloke which watches alot of Junior footy (TAC Cup and such) thus knows abit about the draft picks.




Griffin might well be the best player from this draft but im happy Richmond went with Deledio.

I wanted Deledio @ 1, Griffin @ 4 but happy with the way thing turned out.

Id also agree Griffin looks the most likly to make the biggest impact in '05.




Griffin is in your best 22. He may have to work his way into the side but is a current better player than; Jordan McMahon, Cameron Faulkner, Daniel Cross,, Ben Harrison types.

does he have an official role within AFL footy, is his opinion respected within the AFL ranks?
 
Agreed - I have said how pleased I was that we got Griffin after seeing him in action at the carnival last year, but right now Cross, Faulkner, McMahon and Harrison are better equiped to play AFL footy.

Doesn't mean to say he shouldn't get a game to garner experience as we build the side, but he is not a 'better' player at the moment.
 
Bentleigh said:
Griffin is in your best 22. He may have to work his way into the side but is a current better player than; Jordan McMahon, Cameron Faulkner, Daniel Cross,, Ben Harrison types.
At this point Griffen has touched the ball about 7 times in 2 games from limited opportunities so he has a hell of along way to go before he is in front of Mcmahon or Cross.Have you seen Daniel Cross play?
 

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dogupya said:
does he have an official role within AFL footy, is his opinion respected within the AFL ranks?
His work is definetly known to the scouts.His profiles are incredibly detailed.Doesn't claim to be the final word on recruiting but just gives his own honest appraisal.I will try and find the full profile he did on Griffen for you.
 
Dog Town said:
His work is definetly known to the scouts.His profiles are incredibly detailed.Doesn't claim to be the final word on recruiting but just gives his own honest appraisal.I will try and find the full profile he did on Griffen for you.
There was a link to his site on the drafts and trading forum, but I couldn't find it today...I think it may have even been pasted on the dogs forum just after we picked him??
 
Awesoem read.
Made it better when i saw how highly he rated griffen. I'm proud of our coachng and drafting team. Done well.

Hope he lives up to be as good as we have now said.
 
Doggies05' said:
Awesoem read.
Made it better when i saw how highly he rated griffen. I'm proud of our coachng and drafting team. Done well.

Hope he lives up to be as good as we have now said.

How would you feel if Griffin turns out a good, ordinary type and Tambling a superstar?

@ pick 3 you passed a potentially very good player for Griffin. 2 differnt types.
 
Bentleigh said:
How would you feel if Griffin turns out a good, ordinary type and Tambling a superstar?

@ pick 3 you passed a potentially very good player for Griffin. 2 differnt types.

No problems if it pans out that way because we took the player we think was the the best overall player in the draft.
So far I haven't seen anything to say it wasn't the right decision to select him over Tambling.
Tambling is a very good player and deserved to in the top 5 selections but equally for mine Griffen was at least the 2nd best player in the draft.
 
OldSchool said:
No problems if it pans out that way because we took the player we think was the the best overall player in the draft.
So far I haven't seen anything to say it wasn't the right decision to select him over Tambling.
Tambling is a very good player and deserved to in the top 5 selections but equally for mine Griffen was at least the 2nd best player in the draft.

Personally, my dream outcome for the draft was Deledio and Griffin at 4. Im fairly happy the way it turned out however.

IMO Griffin is the drafts 2nd best player.

It is intersting though the way people say Hawks made the mistake for overlooking Tambling yet Dogs did the same thing and dont get similar comments.
 

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Bentleigh said:
It is intersting though the way people say Hawks made the mistake for overlooking Tambling yet Dogs did the same thing and dont get similar comments.
The differences is that Hawthorn overlooked Tambling for Roughead who may not otherwise have been picked up later in the draft. Many regarded Griffen as better than Tambling, anyway - as you do.
 
O Grobbecker said:
The differences is that Hawthorn overlooked Tambling for Roughead who may not otherwise have been picked up later in the draft. Many regarded Griffen as better than Tambling, anyway - as you do.

Tambling by all accounts has the potential to be one of the greatest. He junior coach has already dubbed him the greatest aboriginal player of all time, which of course is over optimistic but a huge wrap none the less.

However, my mate watched alot of Griffin and is a huge wrap for the kid. I wouldnt have wanted him over Lids but he looks like a sure thing to be an elite AFL player.

If you were playing the GF tommorow and had to play your abosute best 22 Griffin would be in the side. Eade may not reckon he is ready for round 1 but the lad will work his way into the side and should play 15+ games.

I relise he hasnt had alot od touches (7 in 2 games?) but I doubt he has got alot of time on the ground.
 
Bentleigh said:
Tambling by all accounts has the potential to be one of the greatest. He junior coach has already dubbed him the greatest aboriginal player of all time, which of course is over optimistic but a huge wrap none the less.
.

Yeah it's pretty easy to talk up one of your players come draft time to boost his stocks, besides look at what Adelaide were saying about Cameron Faulkner, certainly staring to show a bit, but i don't think he's another Andrew McLoud, well not quite yet anyway. ;)
 
Bentleigh said:
Tambling by all accounts has the potential to be one of the greatest. He junior coach has already dubbed him the greatest aboriginal player of all time, which of course is over optimistic but a huge wrap none the less.

However, my mate watched alot of Griffin and is a huge wrap for the kid. I wouldnt have wanted him over Lids but he looks like a sure thing to be an elite AFL player.

What about the "we needed the best big bodied midfielder" school of thought?

And an honest question: What do you think of Wallace so far?
 
mighty_west said:
Yeah it's pretty easy to talk up one of your players come draft time to boost his stocks, besides look at what Adelaide were saying about Cameron Faulkner, certainly staring to show a bit, but i don't think he's another Andrew McLoud, well not quite yet anyway. ;)

A few have said it apparently


Richard Tambling
Details:
Club: Southern Districts/Northern Territory
DOB: 12 September 1986 Hgt: 181cm Wgt: 74kg
Position: Onballer/Half forward flank
Natural Foot: Right

Honours:
AIS/AFL Academy 2001
Allan McLean Medal 2002 (best player in Division 2 of Under 16's Carnival)
Northern Territory 2002, 2003, 2004 (Captain)
H.G Harrison Medal 2004 (best player in Division 2 of Under 18's Carnival)
All Australian 2004
MVP of Northern Territory 2004
National Draft Camp 2004

Strengths: Tambling is football’s version of the Human Highlight Reel. An extremely exciting onballer and flanker, he has blistering pace and is capable of the extraordinary. He has the ability to tear a game apart with his brilliant skills, running and ability to kick impossible goals. He has a big leap on him and is very agile.

Tambling is a good leader and was captain of the NT side in the recent carnival. He works very hard defensively, his tackling and smothering is a real feature. His hands are extremely clean and he can be damaging at the stoppages.

Weaknesses: Only weighs 68kg and may take time to put on the bulk required to play at AFL level. Can tend to concentrate on winning the football and not his direct opponent.

Footydraft.com comment: This kid is truly a pleasure to watch. He is already been called the best Aboriginal player of all time, which I think is a bit over the top, but he is going to take the league by storm in time with his extraordinary ability.


http://www.footydraft.com/players.php?player=richard_tambling



Of course its abit silly to say that. Lets just hope he becomes the equal of Wells :cool: :p
 
Dry Rot said:
What about the "we needed the best big bodied midfielder" school of thought?

And an honest question: What do you think of Wallace so far?

Im pro-Wallace. Media was he has been 10/10 building up the club thus far. Memberships and co.

Im very happy with trading Ottens for 2 first round picks. We need to rebuild and that was the best way. Knoble im not overly happy but i understand he is needed for cover. Simmonds i rate and and stocked to have him at the club. I would have likd Fiora under a good coach but i accpet we had to needed to allow him to move on to bring the snake man to the club. KPP are really a must.

If you are refering to Griffins body I totally understand why you took him over Tambling. Tambling will bulk up, never be massive but has a similar frame to Wells. In 3 seasons Tambling should be around the 80kg mark. Richmond has to wait, no instant results.

Also i know Dogs needed a class, large body mid like Deledio/Griffin. Good choice for the club.

Overall im happy with Wallace. I really wanted Deledio @ 1 and gratful we picked him up. Tambling was too good to pass at 4. However, as much as I think Danny Meyer @ 12 could be a good player I think it was overkill getting another onballer/flanker when we needed KPP and already had 2 of the best 3 mids in the draft. I see what Doggies are on about in reference to 'Midget Brigade'.
 

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Wiseby - Draft 2004 Roundup

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