List Mgmt. 2009 Drafts

["The Roar Is Back"]

What are you trying to say here? That we should've taken Gary Rohan instead of Dustin Martin? Should've taken Koby Stevens instead Ben Griffiths? Should've taken Liam Jones instead of anyone?

You've listed a lot of spuds in those lists.

I listed everyone who people may know , didn't say I rate any of them . The reason I listed them is because some seem to think our current predicament is based on the last two or three years and is a direct result of the current regime . The true fact is these are the drafts that are influencing the relevant sides, not drafts or trading from the last 3-4 years .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

How have we gone in years since just to understand the direction of trend line , where we're miles, Thomas and petterd selected and games played

If and or when I get time I'll do the following years .

 

[DrMike]

Not sure what benefit looking at a draft 5 years ago brings. Sure we sucked but I'd argue we've made huge inroads in improving that, especially that last few years. I'm ridiculously happy with this years draft selections and the rookies we picked up all show some talent. Obviously you can only look at drafts in hindsight but if we're gonna look at our poor history then make sure you tell some friends to check in on you from time to time before you explore that rabbit hole.

 

[Dragonss]

No use looking into the past.

 

[TJTIGER]

No use looking into the past.

Other than maybe for lessons/errors to hopefully minimise chances of repeating the same mistakes ???

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Not sure what benefit looking at a draft 5 years ago brings. Sure we sucked but I'd argue we've made huge inroads in improving that, especially that last few years. I'm ridiculously happy with this years draft selections and the rookies we picked up all show some talent. Obviously you can only look at drafts in hindsight but if we're gonna look at our poor history then make sure you tell some friends to check in on you from time to time before you explore that rabbit hole.

Because as I have stated drafts for 5-6 years ago is what influences lists the most and to be honest to get the benefit out of our early draft picks like Martin , lids and Cotchin we needed to get those picks right . Where will these players be in 5 years ?
Have no idea what your rabbit hole remark is about , but feel free to explain further .

 

[DrMike]

Because as I have stated drafts for 5-6 years ago is what influences lists the most and to be honest to get the benefit out of our early draft picks like Martin , lids and Cotchin we needed to get those picks right . Where will these players be in 5 years ?

Agreed, I just mean we can't change the past so nitpicking now doesn't achieve anything, it might help explain things but what benefit does that bring moving forward?

 

[Calcium Man]

Honestly, I don't think Richmond could have missed as much as it looks. IMO, the problem lies with player development. Our team cannot develop players like other teams can.

Yes, they were bad at recruiting players, but it is highly unlikely that Richmond could have been so crap to the extent that they missed so much talent only to pick up ordinary players that are now delisted.

Even now, we are seeing quality players go backwards that could have been top 5 players in the league if they were developed in another side.

This notion is backed up by ex players (who were ordinary at Richmond) lighting up the stage at other clubs, such as Jay Shulz at Port Adelaide and Matt White (who was the super sub at Richmond but now gets regular gigs at a good side like Port).

Maybe it isn't our recruiters who need to be looked at. Maybe it is those who are involved in the development of the players who need to be sorted out

Seriously Matt White has to be the biggest pining for that not very attractive ex girlfriend or abusive ex boyfriend in football. Seriously think half this board has some form of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to Matt White

He is not that good at Port. He barely averaged 1 possession more per game last year as full time player compared to as a super sub for us. Add in that he is statistically worse then Sam Lloyd in basically every category this season yet Lloyd gets smashed pillar to post on here and White is treated like something we need.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=1671&tid2=15&pid2=3976&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

He was never very good and he still isn't very good!!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Agreed, I just mean we can't change the past so nitpicking now doesn't achieve anything, it might help explain things but what benefit does that bring moving forward?

Might bring some perspective to those who are potting people for the last 2-3 years .
People at times fail to consider that the club has predominately rid the club of the people who have put us in the position we are now in . The largest one being Cameron .
Unfortunately the true effect of good or bad recruiting / list management isn't know till 5 years down the track .

 

[Calcium Man]

Our drafting hasn't been great, but there really only one pick that makes me angry (Conca over heppell). The rest I can forgive as it's a tough caper.

Exactly its not an exact science and you can go through all teams and find blunders pretty easily. Even the Hawks picked Thorpe over Selwood or Shoenmakers over Jackson Trengove or Riley Milne over Matt De Boer ect...

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

Just in case you need it after looking back at who we drafted and who we missed.

 

[TJTIGER]

Just in case you need it after looking back at who we drafted and who we missed.
View attachment 127926

That's thoughtful & very considerate of you. I've always thought you were a nice guy. Now I know it's true.....

 

[LVAK]

Richmond picks( not one left )
8 . Robin Nahas
20. Danny Myer
24. David Gourdis
39. Andrew Browne
53. Alroy Gilligan
67. pass

Others who were taken in the 2009 rookie draft after pick 8.
13. Zac Dawson.
19. Matt de boer
25. Luke Delaney
27. Jarryd Blair
29. Tom Simpkin
30. Liam Picken
35. Daniel Stewart
47. Luke Bruest
48. Clancee Pearce
57. Mike PYke ( international rookie)
69. Lachlan Keefe
74. Greg Broughton
76. Sam Jacobs
81. Mathew Suckling

You can cherry pick players within a draft or a particular draft year,or picks across years to make any point you want to make. The truth is usually somewhere in between
It wasn't long ago we were being commended for our 1st Round selections since 2006.
I don't think we've been poor or spectacular but I don't think the 2009 Rookie Draft is going to be spoken about as a crucial draft.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

You can cherry pick players within a draft or a particular draft year,or picks across years to make any point you want to make. The truth is usually somewhere in between
It wasn't long ago we were being commended for our 1st Round selections since 2006.
I don't think we've been poor or spectacular but I don't think the 2009 Rookie Draft is going to be spoken about as a crucial draft.

Suckling and bruest are fairly important players to hawthorn.

 

[LVAK]

Suckling and bruest are fairly important players to hawthorn.

Like I said, cherry picking. You've done well and chosen best case scenario although I still think the Hawks could have replaced them and won.
What I'm saying is I don't think selecting rookies is our great downfall.

 

[Sol23]

Our drafting hasn't been great, but there really only one pick that makes me angry (Conca over heppell). The rest I can forgive as it's a tough caper.

But conca hasn't had a full pre season yet.. U wait

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Like I said, cherry picking. You've done well and chosen best case scenario although I still think the Hawks could have replaced them and won.
What I'm saying is I don't think selecting rookies is our great downfall.

Which is why I provided the other drafts around that time frame , for which I think a clear view can be formed on whether those players are any good or not .

 

[TigerImposter]

Seriously Matt White has to be the biggest pining for that not very attractive ex girlfriend or abusive ex boyfriend in football. Seriously think half this board has some form of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to Matt White

He is not that good at Port. He barely averaged 1 possession more per game last year as full time player compared to as a super sub for us. Add in that he is statistically worse then Sam Lloyd in basically every category this season yet Lloyd gets smashed pillar to post on here and White is treated like something we need.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=1671&tid2=15&pid2=3976&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

He was never very good and he still isn't very good!!

I can see your really hurting inside when your saying this
Matty would get a game before half the blokes in our side, but he didn't fit in DH game plan
SLLT
Stop look listen and think
Too late crunch turnover

 

[partycorolla]

Glad somebody else has noticed this. So disappointing for such a big boy.

He's a bit strange actually.... when he sets himself to be hurt, he goes... no problems at all, puts his head over and is prepared to be crunched. When he isn't sure what's coming, he can become a head-ducker.... Teammates need to talk to him. Houli has improved in this area a lot over the last 2 seasons...

 

[Dags21]

Not sure if its been mentioned but aren't we drafting good kids, not just good footballers..
Personally I'd prefer we drafted for talent, not for needs. But that might b another issue altogether

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

2009 AFL Draft:
Pick 3 - Dustin Martin. Huge success when you consider the top 10 from that year.
Pick 19 - Ben Griffiths. Success although a few players who went directly after him have had better careers to date and are better players but then again he is ahead of a quite a few players picked ahead of him.
Pick 35 - David Astbury. Success. Only Allen Christenson has a better career than him from those picked before our next pick. Needs to stay on the track however.
Pick 44 - Matt Dea. Most likely a failure, has never been given a real opportunity both from injuries and coaches unwilling to use him.
Pick 51 - Troy Taylor. Failure but was worth the risk. Showed he was very talented and would have made it, if he had not been a complete an utter campaigner.
Pick 67 - Jeromey Webberly. Failure but didn't miss out on anyone taken after him.
Pick 71 - Ben Nason. Failure but didn't miss out on anyone taken after him.
PSD - Dylan Grimes. Success.

4/8. A rating. Very well done.

2010 (compromised) AFL draft:
Pick 6 - Recce Conca. Could have done better. Easily an AFL player but because he was taken over Heppell and Prestia everyone acts as if he is lucky to be on an AFL list.
Pick 30 - Jake Batchelor. Should have taken Parker, much bigger mistake than Conca over Heppell.
Pick 47 - Brad Helbig. Failure.
Pick 63 - Tom Derickx. Failure.
PSD - Bachar Houli. Big success.

3/6. B- rating due missing out of the better players with the first two picks.

2011 (compromised) AFL Draft:
Pick 15 - Brandon Ellis. Big success given he would have most likely gone in the 20's in an un-compromised draft.
Pick 26 - Todd Elton. Wait and see. Starting to show signs as a key defender.
Pick 55 - Matt Arnot. Failure. In hindsight could of had Lachie Neale.
PSD - Brett O'Hanlan. Failure.

1/4. B rating at this point. If Elton comes on then potentially an A.

2012 AFL draft:
Pick 9 - Nick Vlastuin. Success. Has outperformed a few blokes taken ahead of him. With more consistent four quarter efforts, will be a gun.
Pick 31 - Kamdyn McIntosh. Looking like he will be a success after all.
Pick 33 - Liam McBean. Showed plenty of signs at VFL level and considering he was a long term project is ahead of where he needs to be.
Pick 42 - Matt McDonough. Plenty of ability just needs to be given the opportunity.

1/4. B rating at this point but could easily be an A+ rating in a years time.

2013 AFL draft:
Pick 12 - Ben Lennon. Confident he will be easily a top 10 player at the club once given the opportunity and a full preseason. Too much talent to not be.
Pick 50 - Nathan Gordon. Failure.
Pick 66 - Sam Lloyd. Failure.

1/3. A rating simply as after pick 30 there is nothing to do this draft.

All in all I think for the best part we have drafted well with the possibility of having done excellently should certain players be given an opportunity. A few bad misses (2010 draft) but have done much better than some other clubs. Any pick after 50 isn't worth much consideration when weighing up whether or not Jackson and co are up to the necessary standards required.

 

[I Rock]

No use looking into the past.

Unless you are studying history.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

In 2008 Freo took S.Hill with pick 3 RFC took Vickery with pick 8 .
2009 RFC took Martin with 3 , Freo took Fyfe with 20.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but 2 picks from each club of similar value at worst , which are defining each sides current performances.
SHill and Fyfe have excelled , Vickery and Martin have not .
What a difference Fyfe and hill would make in the RFC side ATM

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

2009 AFL Draft:
Pick 3 - Dustin Martin. Huge success when you consider the top 10 from that year.
Pick 19 - Ben Griffiths. Success although a few players who went directly after him have had better careers to date and are better players but then again he is ahead of a quite a few players picked ahead of him.
Pick 35 - David Astbury. Success. Only Allen Christenson has a better career than him from those picked before our next pick. Needs to stay on the track however.
Pick 44 - Matt Dea. Most likely a failure, has never been given a real opportunity both from injuries and coaches unwilling to use him.
Pick 51 - Troy Taylor. Failure but was worth the risk. Showed he was very talented and would have made it, if he had not been a complete an utter campaigner.
Pick 67 - Jeromey Webberly. Failure but didn't miss out on anyone taken after him.
Pick 71 - Ben Nason. Failure but didn't miss out on anyone taken after him.
PSD - Dylan Grimes. Success.

4/8. A rating. Very well done.

2010 (compromised) AFL draft:
Pick 6 - Recce Conca. Could have done better. Easily an AFL player but because he was taken over Heppell and Prestia everyone acts as if he is lucky to be on an AFL list.
Pick 30 - Jake Batchelor. Should have taken Parker, much bigger mistake than Conca over Heppell.
Pick 47 - Brad Helbig. Failure.
Pick 63 - Tom Derickx. Failure.
PSD - Bachar Houli. Big success.

3/6. B- rating due missing out of the better players with the first two picks.

2011 (compromised) AFL Draft:
Pick 15 - Brandon Ellis. Big success given he would have most likely gone in the 20's in an un-compromised draft.
Pick 26 - Todd Elton. Wait and see. Starting to show signs as a key defender.
Pick 55 - Matt Arnot. Failure. In hindsight could of had Lachie Neale.
PSD - Brett O'Hanlan. Failure.

1/4. B rating at this point. If Elton comes on then potentially an A.

2012 AFL draft:
Pick 9 - Nick Vlastuin. Success. Has outperformed a few blokes taken ahead of him. With more consistent four quarter efforts, will be a gun.
Pick 31 - Kamdyn McIntosh. Looking like he will be a success after all.
Pick 33 - Liam McBean. Showed plenty of signs at VFL level and considering he was a long term project is ahead of where he needs to be.
Pick 42 - Matt McDonough. Plenty of ability just needs to be given the opportunity.

1/4. B rating at this point but could easily be an A+ rating in a years time.

2013 AFL draft:
Pick 12 - Ben Lennon. Confident he will be easily a top 10 player at the club once given the opportunity and a full preseason. Too much talent to not be.
Pick 50 - Nathan Gordon. Failure.
Pick 66 - Sam Lloyd. Failure.

1/3. A rating simply as after pick 30 there is nothing to do this draft.

All in all I think for the best part we have drafted well with the possibility of having done excellently should certain players be given an opportunity. A few bad misses (2010 draft) but have done much better than some other clubs. Any pick after 50 isn't worth much consideration when weighing up whether or not Jackson and co are up to the necessary standards required.

Great analysis but can we give Lloyd a few more games before we write him off... Has shown signs he's up to it.

 

[Bobby Sands]

2012 AFL draft:
Pick 9 - Nick Vlastuin. Success. Has outperformed a few blokes taken ahead of him. With more consistent four quarter efforts, will be a gun.
Pick 31 - Kamdyn McIntosh. Looking like he will be a success after all.
Pick 33 - Liam McBean. Showed plenty of signs at VFL level and considering he was a long term project is ahead of where he needs to be.
Pick 42 - Matt McDonough. Plenty of ability just needs to be given the opportunity.

Will be interesting to see how last year's draft class stacks up to this one.