2014 Draftees versus 2015 Draftees

[Defacto]

People actually rate curnow ahead of duggan. Wow. Based on what exactly?

Duggan looked seriously impressive this year. Any team would love him. Including my own.

 

[Milanista28]

Essendon have, Langford, Laverde, Parish and Francis on their list. Bloody love that.

 

[The Bomb]

Charlie Curnow as he rated really poorly in the Geelong Falcons B&F, yet played 10 games.
Strange he can't finish top 15 in his B&F yet gets pick with a top 15 pick in the draft.


Average votes per game

1. Parish ............ 7.25
2. Mathieson ....... 6.25
3. Sexton ........... 6.1
4. Doedee .......... 6.0

way way down
Curnow ........... 2.7

1. Harrison Kol ………….. 67 (12)
2. Will Sexton ………….. 61 (10)
3. Darcy Parish ………….. 58 (8)
4. Harry Kershaw ………….. 54 (10)
5. Baden Remmos ………….. 51 (10)
6. Rhys Mathieson ………….. 50 (8)
7. Tom Doedee ………….. 48 (8)
T8. Logan Wagener ………….. 34 (10)
T8. Ben McCarthy ………….. 34 (6)
10. Alex Witherden ………….. 33 (6)
11 Zachary Zdybel ……….. 32
T12 Nick Connors …....….. 31
T12 Brett Blair ….……. 31
14 Lockey McCartney ……….. 30
15 Charlie Curnow ……….. 27 (10)

 

[gillo94]

Charlie Curnow as he rated really poorly in the Geelong Falcons B&F, yet played 10 games.
Strange he can't finish top 15 in his B&F yet gets pick with a top 15 pick in the draft.


Average votes per game

1. Parish ............ 7.25
2. Mathieson ....... 6.25
3. Sexton ........... 6.1
4. Doedee .......... 6.0

way way down
Curnow ........... 2.7

1. Harrison Kol ………….. 67 (12)
2. Will Sexton ………….. 61 (10)
3. Darcy Parish ………….. 58 (8)
4. Harry Kershaw ………….. 54 (10)
5. Baden Remmos ………….. 51 (10)
6. Rhys Mathieson ………….. 50 (8)
7. Tom Doedee ………….. 48 (8)
T8. Logan Wagener ………….. 34 (10)
T8. Ben McCarthy ………….. 34 (6)
10. Alex Witherden ………….. 33 (6)
11 Zachary Zdybel ……….. 32
T12 Nick Connors …....….. 31
T12 Brett Blair ….……. 31
14 Lockey McCartney ……….. 30
15 Charlie Curnow ……….. 27 (10)

You do realise was injured big part of the year?

 

[The Bomb]

You do realise was injured big part of the year?

still managed more games then quiet a few other players and didn't poll any where near as good.
Oliver is the perfect example of a player having injury issues yet performing to a very high standard, even above expectation.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

still managed more games then quiet a few other players and didn't poll any where near as good.
Oliver is the perfect example of a player having injury issues yet performing to a very high standard, even above expectation.

You're right, Carlton should've grabbed Oliver with pick 12

 

[gillo94]

still managed more games then quiet a few other players and didn't poll any where near as good.
Oliver is the perfect example of a player having injury issues yet performing to a very high standard, even above expectation.

He did play well in his return games. His only a kid no need to rag on him. I'm sure will get opportunity in 2016 season to show what kind of a player he is. I'm sure he went 12 in the 2015 draft for a reason you must agree?

Looks like a very exciting prospect and glad his at the club. Have to wait and see if was a steal for us in the draft

 

[The Bomb]

He did play well in his return games. His only a kid no need to rag on him. I'm sure will get opportunity in 2016 season to show what kind of a player he is. I'm sure he went 12 in the 2015 draft for a reason you must agree?

Looks like a very exciting prospect and glad his at the club. Have to wait and see if was a steal for us in the draft

rag on him, why? because I stated that he played 10 games and still finished behind 14 other players in his teams B&F, yet playing more games then nearly all 14.
His coach at the Geelong falcons must not have rated his performances, yet Curnow was much bigger and stronger then most of the guys he played against.
I have just found it quiet interesting.

 

[gillo94]

rag on him, why? because I stated that he played 10 games and still finished behind 14 other players in his teams B&F, yet playing more games then nearly all 14.
His coach at the Geelong falcons must not have rated his performances, yet Curnow was much bigger and stronger then most of the guys he played against.
I have just found it quiet interesting.

Fair enough

 

[The Bomb]

Fair enough

strange position to be in, top 15 in the national draft, yet 15th in your own teams B&F, while playing as many or more games compared to the others.

 

[Old navy]

rag on him, why? because I stated that he played 10 games and still finished behind 14 other players in his teams B&F, yet playing more games then nearly all 14.
His coach at the Geelong falcons must not have rated his performances, yet Curnow was much bigger and stronger then most of the guys he played against.
I have just found it quiet interesting.

Curnow struggled big time with injuries this year. So in some of the games he played in he was well below 100% fitness.
His coach at the falcons has said that he rates Charlie Curnow the best player at the falcons this year.
Mick Turner IIRC said that he believes that Curnow is one the most talent players he ever seen come through the Geelong falcons program.

 

[Ozil]

Mick Turner would have us believe every kid drafted from the Falcons is a world beater.

People actually rate curnow ahead of duggan. Wow. Based on what exactly?

Duggan looked seriously impressive this year. Any team would love him. Including my own.

Because <18 year old I've only seen in a 3 minute highlights clip> is the next <21 year old currently tearing up the league>.

 

[The Bomb]

Curnow struggled big time with injuries this year. So in some of the games he played in he was well below 100% fitness.
His coach at the falcons has said that he rates Charlie Curnow the best player at the falcons this year.
Mick Turner IIRC said that he believes that Curnow is one the most talent players he ever seen come through the Geelong falcons program.

Are you sure?
he said that about Parish.

RESPECTED Geelong Falcons talent scout Michael Turner has compared Colac district AFL draft prospect Darcy Parish to a young Joel Selwood.

Turner said Parish was a certainty in this year’s draft, likely to follow in the footsteps of Geelong captain and three-time premiership player Joel Selwood.

Selwood played with Bendigo in the TAC Cup before the Cats selected him with the seventh pick in the 2006 draft.

“People laugh when I say these things, but at the same age Darcy is as good as Joel Selwood was when he was his age,” Turner said.

“I travelled with Selwood and players like Travis Boak and Paddy Ryder to Ireland when he played TAC Cup,” he said.

“He’s not at the stage where Joel is now, but Darcy’s got a lot of development in him, he’s as good as any kid we’ve had at the Geelong Falcons and we’ve had some beauties.

 

[Toadvine]

Are you sure?
he said that about Parish.

Turner says this kind of stuff every year. He said it about Cunnington, he said it about Smedts and he said it about Devon Smith. I'm not saying he doesn't believe it. Just that he says it a lot!

 

[Theo X]

1 Weitering versus McCartin
2 Schache versus Heeney
3 Mills versus Petracca
4 Oliver versus Brayshaw
5 Parish versus Moore
6 Francis versus Pickett
7 Hopper versus De Goey
8 Ah Chee versus Marchbank
9 Weideman versus Ahern
10 Harry McKay versus Wright
11 Milera versus Cockatoo
12 Curnow versus Duggan
13 Kennedy versus Ellis neither
14 Hipwood versus Weller
15 Rioli versus Lever
16 Himmelberg versus Garlett
17 Doedee versus Steele
18 Gresham versus Durdin
19 Burton versus Langford
20 Fiorini versus Boekhorst neither
21 Ben McKay versus Laverde
22 Lovell versus Goddard
23 Cunningham versus McKenzie neither

 

[AmellyPies]

Brayden Sier is already the greatest draftee to be taking the AFL.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Brayden Sier is already the greatest draftee to be taking the AFL.

I thought so.

 

[ManOfClay]

Brayden Sier is already the greatest draftee to be taking the AFL.

Collingwood only picked him because the dogs were interested

 

[AmellyPies]

Collingwood only picked him because the dogs were interested

Theres no such thing as a club was interested in Sier. Only Sier was interested in clubs. He eventually chose Collingwood.

 

[Schraderbrau]

If you take Steven out of the equation, Cripps would be St Kilda's best mid and by some margin as well. Even now Cripps v Steven is a very close question. Everyone else in St Kilda's midfield are decidedly average. Especially Armitage who has become close to most overrated player in the comp - racks it up in the worst midfield in the comp with little effect and I highly doubt he would be doing much if he were playing for competitive teams in the top 8.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Weitering, McCartin, Schache, Heeney, Mills, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Parish, Moore, Francis, Pickett, Hopper, De Goey, Ah Chee, Marchbank, Weideman, Ahern, Harry McKay, Wright, Milera, Cockatoo, Curnow, Duggan, Kennedy, Ellis, Hipwood, Weller, Rioli, Lever, Himmelberg, Garlett, Doedee, Steele, Gresham, Durdin, Burton, Langford, Fiorini, Boekhorst, Ben McKay, Laverde, Lovell, Goddard, Cunningham, McKenzie versus Brayden Sier

 

[AmellyPies]

Weitering, McCartin, Schache, Heeney, Mills, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Parish, Moore, Francis, Pickett, Hopper, De Goey, Ah Chee, Marchbank, Weideman, Ahern, Harry McKay, Wright, Milera, Cockatoo, Curnow, Duggan, Kennedy, Ellis, Hipwood, Weller, Rioli, Lever, Himmelberg, Garlett, Doedee, Steele, Gresham, Durdin, Burton, Langford, Fiorini, Boekhorst, Ben McKay, Laverde, Lovell, Goddard, Cunningham, McKenzie versus Brayden Sier

Thats way to unfiar..... Sier would destroy them.

 

[12Chill]

If you take Steven out of the equation, Cripps would be St Kilda's best mid and by some margin as well. Even now Cripps v Steven is a very close question. Everyone else in St Kilda's midfield are decidedly average. Especially Armitage who has become close to most overrated player in the comp - racks it up in the worst midfield in the comp with little effect and I highly doubt he would be doing much if he were playing for competitive teams in the top 8.

Armitage = average?
"racks it up... with little effect" -
Actually, Armitage's disposal efficiency is 72.9% which is considered a pretty good percentage of effectiveness.

Below is a list of the top 15 midfielders last season for average disposals per game;
1. Sam Mitchell
2. Josh P. Kennedy
3. Daniel Hannebery
4. Matthew Priddis
5. Andrew Gaff
6. Dane Swan
7. Jordan Lewis
8. Scott Pendlebury
9. Nathan Fyfe
10. Leigh Montagna
11. David Armitage
12. Dayne Beams
13. Adam Treloar
14. Taylor Adams
15. Lachie Neale

So what happens when we compare the disposal efficiency of the top 15 and re-rank the list?

1. Scott Pendlebury - 76.5%
2. Lachie Neale - 75.5%
3. Adam Treloar - 74.5%
4. Leigh Montagna - 74.1%
5. Sam Mitchell - 73.1%
6. David Armitage - 72.9%
7. Daniel Hannebery - 71.3%
8. Jordan Lewis - 70.9%
9. Andrew Gaff - 70.8%
10. Matthew Priddis - 69.9%
11. Nathan Fyfe - 69.4%
12. Dayne Beams - 68.8%
13. Dane Swan - 66.9%
14. Josh P. Kennedy - 64.3%
15. Taylor Adams - 62.4%

Armitage jumps to number 6. (Just 0.2% below Sam Mitchell by the way, who fwiw is considered one of the better kicks/most efficient players in the comp). Cripps would fit in between Fyfe and Beams, at 69.1%. Cripps is also handball-heavy, an easy way to get an effective stat, with just 2 less total handballs for the season in comparison to Armitage.
Armitage has 124 more kicks than Cripps in season 2015.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-28/the-inquirer-just-for-kicks
Oh, and Cripps was ranked as having the 2nd worst kicking efficiency in terms of what was expected, 10.6% below the expected result. I just find the whole Armitage is ineffective thing amusing when Cripps ranks below him in many of these aspects.

"racks it up in the worst midfield in the comp with little effect and I highly doubt he would be doing much if he were playing for competitive teams in the top 8"
You know you could literally say the exact same thing for Cripps? This comment makes very little sense and is a ridiculous exercise. Usually as teams become better and there is added supporter, the players who usually had to do all the heavy lifting are allowed to have more rounded games and actually benefit from it.

I don't intend to bash Cripps at all btw. Carlton have a serious player on their hands and I look forward to watching him over the next decade However, I do believe at this stage, Armitage and Steven are both much better players. Yes, there's a good chance Cripps will overtake Armitage or someone else as he improves and develops further, but that was not the statement made. The statement was that Cripps IS better than all of St Kilda's midfielders. IS means present time, and at this present time I'd have to say no.

note; It would be pointless to say Cripps eventually will become better than any of St Kilda's midfielders too, because if we allow Cripps the benefit of developing you'd have to do the same for our young mids such as Billings, Sinclair, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham and Freeman.
There are too many variables at this stage. Cripps will be a very very good player though, no doubt. I just think you said some ridiculous things in your comment regarding Armitage.

 

[Defacto]

Cripps is a clearance beast. Goes very well in tight. Gets slaughtered on the outside

 

[Schraderbrau]

Armitage = average?
"racks it up... with little effect" -
Actually, Armitage's disposal efficiency is 72.9% which is considered a pretty good percentage of effectiveness.

Below is a list of the top 15 midfielders last season for average disposals per game;
1. Sam Mitchell
2. Josh P. Kennedy
3. Daniel Hannebery
4. Matthew Priddis
5. Andrew Gaff
6. Dane Swan
7. Jordan Lewis
8. Scott Pendlebury
9. Nathan Fyfe
10. Leigh Montagna
11. David Armitage
12. Dayne Beams
13. Adam Treloar
14. Taylor Adams
15. Lachie Neale

So what happens when we compare the disposal efficiency of the top 15 and re-rank the list?

1. Scott Pendlebury - 76.5%
2. Lachie Neale - 75.5%
3. Adam Treloar - 74.5%
4. Leigh Montagna - 74.1%
5. Sam Mitchell - 73.1%
6. David Armitage - 72.9%
7. Daniel Hannebery - 71.3%
8. Jordan Lewis - 70.9%
9. Andrew Gaff - 70.8%
10. Matthew Priddis - 69.9%
11. Nathan Fyfe - 69.4%
12. Dayne Beams - 68.8%
13. Dane Swan - 66.9%
14. Josh P. Kennedy - 64.3%
15. Taylor Adams - 62.4%

Armitage jumps to number 6. (Just 0.2% below Sam Mitchell by the way, who fwiw is considered one of the better kicks/most efficient players in the comp). Cripps would fit in between Fyfe and Beams, at 69.1%. Cripps is also handball-heavy, an easy way to get an effective stat, with just 2 less total handballs for the season in comparison to Armitage.
Armitage has 124 more kicks than Cripps in season 2015.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-28/the-inquirer-just-for-kicks
Oh, and Cripps was ranked as having the 2nd worst kicking efficiency in terms of what was expected, 10.6% below the expected result. I just find the whole Armitage is ineffective thing amusing when Cripps ranks below him in many of these aspects.

"racks it up in the worst midfield in the comp with little effect and I highly doubt he would be doing much if he were playing for competitive teams in the top 8"
You know you could literally say the exact same thing for Cripps? This comment makes very little sense and is a ridiculous exercise. Usually as teams become better and there is added supporter, the players who usually had to do all the heavy lifting are allowed to have more rounded games and actually benefit from it.

I don't intend to bash Cripps at all btw. Carlton have a serious player on their hands and I look forward to watching him over the next decade However, I do believe at this stage, Armitage and Steven are both much better players. Yes, there's a good chance Cripps will overtake Armitage or someone else as he improves and develops further, but that was not the statement made. The statement was that Cripps IS better than all of St Kilda's midfielders. IS means present time, and at this present time I'd have to say no.

note; It would be pointless to say Cripps eventually will become better than any of St Kilda's midfielders too, because if we allow Cripps the benefit of developing you'd have to do the same for our young mids such as Billings, Sinclair, Dunstan, Acres, Gresham and Freeman.
There are too many variables at this stage. Cripps will be a very very good player though, no doubt. I just think you said some ridiculous things in your comment regarding Armitage.

Disposal efficiency is a bs stat which is demonstrated by your comparisons showing that there is .2% splitting Mitchell and Armitage. This is laughable and discredits disposal efficiency as a useful stat.

A better thing to look at is average clangers per game which Armitage ranks 7th in the comp and is compounded by the fact that he is a high possession winner. He is an elite turnover merchant and given that he is St Kilda's biggest possession winner makes for pretty bad reading if you happen to be a forward or a defender at that club.

It is telling Armatage's improvement as a player is directly correlated with St Kilda's move down the ladder. He's nothing more than a good player in a crap team imo. If St Kilda had the midfield options that better teams have then he becomes a fringe player just like he was when Goddard, Dal Santa, Hayes etc were playing in the Saints midfield.

And I don't think you can shut down debate on how good Cripps will end up compared to St Kilda listed players. Nobody other than Saints fans would disagree that Cripps is clearly going to be better than the young Saints players you've mentioned. In fact the players you mention are a pretty modest group in terms of ability especially given St Kilda has been rubbish since 2013. I doubt any of them would be in most people's top 25 list of young players in the AFL whereas Cripps would be in most top 5's.