Play Nice 2024 AFL and State League Attendance

[Hornberger]

I think this is just enough to get the record for most people to the MCG in one round.

Also enough to bring the round total over 400k.

If it wasn't for the torrential rain forecast for Sydney for next weekend, next week could have been be a chance to beat the round record of 414,253. Could still crack 400,000.

 

[Hawkk]

Haw-Sydney: 38,052

Pretty decent for the Sunday graveyard slot!

Still a very long way short of the glory era of Hawthorn v Sydney crowds (2007-2017)

 

[Arwib]

Would that MCG crowd have been, what, 40% Swans fans?

 

[dave10]

As for Melbourne, it's pretty obvious that they are bigger than St Kilda and compete with Hawthorn for the same members and supporters.

Melbourne has drawn 40,000 plus, when firing, against non Victorian clubs which is substantially larger than the Saints, North and Dogs.

Given they have 13 VFL/AFL flags (like Hawthorn), they should be far bigger than the three smaller clubs.

Geelong has always been the outlier given they are not technically a Melbourne club and have vast support in regional Victoria.

There is an argument that the Cats have underachieved in the VFL/AFL given the vast number of minor premierships and dominance in the pre-VFL VFA era.

Should they win the minor premiership this year it will be their 15th in VFL/AFL history.

That said, where Hawthorn gets a jump on the other middling Victorian clubs is interstate support - not just in Tasmania but also Queensland, SA and WA - thanks to the post 1980 era of success

This is absolutely correct. Hawthorn have a vast national fan base which sets itself above mid tier clubs, possibly excluding Geelong.

Hawthorn join Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon (imo) as the clubs that appear to have the broadest national followings. Richmond possibly included though I don’t think their national support has the same breadth as its big 3 cousins.

 

[Rabman]

Certainly from a South Australian view. Carlton and Hawthorn are comfortably the 2 most supported Victorian Clubs in SA.

 

[ep12]

Would that MCG crowd have been, what, 40% Swans fans?

No, this is the usual Sydney people saying that they outnumber north and the dogs when they play at marvel and that there were more swans than tigers at that game a few weeks back,

This is entirely to playing MCG games in marquee times against Marquee opposition though. The benefit of the MCG and not the size of the club.

It's not as if the Dogs haven't show up when given the opportunity in similar marquee slots (e.g. 47k vs North in the inaugural Good Friday game). You play that Good Friday game against Carlton at MCG and the crowd is 80k or whatever.

Dogs fans also showed up to their first home game in 2017 where 42k showed up to unfurl the flag.

A fairer comparison of independent crowds against interstate teams shows Melbourne in a bottom 4 with Dogs, North and Saints. They wouldn't be selling home games to NT if they got bigger MCG crowds vs interstate teams. E.g. 27k vs Freo and Port at home in good timeslots in 2019 a year after making the prelim.

You’ll find that the first Good Friday game drew 42.8k not 47k. The 47k was a proper Friday night timesheet where North were unbeaten going into the game and the dogs were a top 4 side.

Bringing up 2019 for Melbourne crowds is a nonsense argument because we finished second last.
We also drew 38k against Port at the G in 2019, which is far from the 27K you are suggesting. By the time we played Fremantle that year we were well and truly locked into the bottom 4.

Our crowds last year against interstate clubs at the G are more than what St Kilda was getting who are clearly our direct comparison. Fremantle (29k), Adelaide (34K), Brisbane (38K and 43k this year), Sydney (42.5k), whereas the Saints drew 25k against Port on a Friday night when they were 5-1 and then 29k against Brisbane on a Friday night. I’m excluding their crowds against Gold Coast and Fremantle which was a Sunday 4:40

If you want to take our crowds from 2008 to 2014 and 2019 when we were a basket case then fine, that’s your choice but it’s not a true reflection of the club as a whole.

I would also argue that the dogs show up in the least numbers to away games in Melbourne but that’s an argument for another time.

 

[Hawkk]

No, this is the usual Sydney people saying that they outnumber north and the dogs when they play at marvel and that there were more swans than tigers at that game a few weeks back,

You’ll find that the first Good Friday game drew 42.8k not 47k. The 47k was a proper Friday night timesheet where North were unbeaten going into the game and the dogs were a top 4 side.

Bringing up 2019 for Melbourne crowds is a nonsense argument because we finished second last.
We also drew 38k against Port at the G in 2019, which is far from the 27K you are suggesting. By the time we played Fremantle that year we were well and truly locked into the bottom 4.

Our crowds last year against interstate clubs at the G are more than what St Kilda was getting who are clearly our direct comparison. Fremantle (29k), Adelaide (34K), Brisbane (38K and 43k this year), Sydney (42.5k), whereas the Saints drew 25k against Port on a Friday night when they were 5-1 and then 29k against Brisbane on a Friday night. I’m excluding their crowds against Gold Coast and Fremantle which was a Sunday 4:40

If you want to take our crowds from 2008 to 2014 and 2019 when we were a basket case then fine, that’s your choice but it’s not a true reflection of the club as a whole.

I would also argue that the dogs show up in the least numbers to away games in Melbourne but that’s an argument for another time.

Admittedly the Swans do, more often than not, outdraw the Dogs and North against MCG co-tenants.

Is it too much of a stretch to suggest they are bigger in Melbourne?

North v Hawthorn last week drew just over 30,000 in the graveyard slot, switch it to the MCG and make Hawthorn the home team and it probably draws another 5,000 to 7,000 people. So, it's clear that South would have brought more than North to an away game.

I do wonder where South would stand in the pecking order had they not moved to Sydney.

If you look at the old attendance records they were neck and neck with Carlton (always number 1) Collingwood and Richmond for crowds throughout the 1920s and 1930s.

 

[Peacock]

But this does annoy me about the AFL and all their set in stone blockbusters these days - hardly any flexibility for these random fixtures when both teams are flying to have decent crowds. Every public holiday has a set fixture - Good Friday, Easter Monday, ANZAC, Kings birthday… then the AFL has added ‘eve’ games to take even more advantage of the fixture.

Going on a little bit of a rant here for no other reason than I feel like it

This is a bit of a bugbear of mine about how repetitive and boring these marquee games are. To understand how we got here, first we need a little history less.

Back in the late 90's the AFL didn't have the balls to say no to Kevin Sheedy and Channel 9 superstar Eddie Mcguire and take ANZAC Day away from Ess and/or Coll when it was starting to run out of steam. They had sold to the idiotic public that these two clubs had somehow invented footy on ANZAC Day and therefore had a divine right to play it forever.

When Apple tried to patent the touch screen on the iPhone, a judge ruled that going to a touch screen was the natural evolution of phones and wouldn't allow it (or something like that). While some ANZAC Day games had been played at Waverley, it was a natural evolution of the AFL fixturing that one day this fixture would be at the MCG. Just as it was a natural evolution we would eventually play Friday night games (sorry North fans).

Also when we think of the concept of time, five years can seems like a long time as we generally only think of it within the context of our own lives, and depending on your age, it can be 1/3, 1/4 or 1/5 of your entire life so it feels big. If you think of it in the history or future of mankind it's a drop in the ocean. So when we logically think about it, allowing Ess and Coll to play on the best public holiday for the next 1000 years just because they did for 5 years back in the 1990's is ridiculous.

Rather than use common sense and acknowledge it was the best public holiday backed by never ending ch7 and Footy Show promotion, the AFL took the easy way out and told all other clubs to find their own marquee games - this gave us the Ess/Coll precedent which makes it almost impossible to move any marquee game.

Now fast forward to the year 2060, you are sitting on the couch with your hot 25 year old robot wives Tatiana and Sarah, rather than moaning and groaning about watching cellar dwellers Carl and Rich playing yet another opening game fizzer - if you are an Ess or Coll supporter blame your own club . If you are a fan of another club get angry at those weak AFL executives back in the 90's who made it possible .

 

[Hawkk]

Going on a little bit of a rant here for no other reason than I feel like it

This is a bit of a bugbear of mine about how repetitive and boring these marquee games are. To understand how we got here, first we need a little history less.

Back in the late 90's the AFL didn't have the balls to say no to Kevin Sheedy and Channel 9 superstar Eddie Mcguire and take ANZAC Day away from Ess and/or Coll when it was starting to run out of steam. They had sold to the idiotic public that these two clubs had somehow invented footy on ANZAC Day and therefore had a divine right to play it forever.

When Apple tried to patent the touch screen on the iPhone, a judge ruled that going to a touch screen was the natural evolution of phones and wouldn't allow it (or something like that). While some ANZAC Day games had been played at Waverley, it was a natural evolution of the AFL fixturing that one day this fixture would be at the MCG. Just as it was a natural evolution we would eventually play Friday night games (sorry North fans).

Also when we think of the concept of time, five years can seems like a long time as we generally only think of it within the context of our own lives, and depending on your age, it can be 1/3, 1/4 or 1/5 of your entire life so it feels big. If you think of it in the history or future of mankind it's a drop in the ocean. So when we logically think about it, allowing Ess and Coll to play on the best public holiday for the next 1000 years just because they did for 5 years back in the 1990's is ridiculous.

Rather than use common sense and acknowledge it was the best public holiday backed by never ending ch7 and Footy Show promotion, the AFL took the easy way out and told all other clubs to find their own marquee games - this gave us the Ess/Coll precedent which makes it almost impossible to move any marquee game.

Now fast forward to the year 2060, you are sitting on the couch with your hot 25 year old robot wives Tatiana and Sarah, rather than moaning and groaning about watching cellar dwellers Carl and Rich playing yet another opening game fizzer - if you are an Ess or Coll supporter blame your own club . If you are a fan of another club get angry at those weak AFL executives back in the 90's who made it possible .

100 per cent. That said, if you look at the attendances to some of these ‘marquee fixtures’ in the years leading up to the locked-in games, the crowds weren't stellar.

 

[The Tilt]

Admittedly the Swans do, more often than not, outdraw the Dogs and North against MCG co-tenants.

Is it too much of a stretch to suggest they are bigger in Melbourne?

North v Hawthorn last week drew just over 30,000 in the graveyard slot, switch it to the MCG and make Hawthorn the home team and it probably draws another 5,000 to 7,000 people. So, it's clear that South would have brought more than North to an away game.

I do wonder where South would stand in the pecking order had they not moved to Sydney.

If you look at the old attendance records they were neck and neck with Carlton (always number 1) Collingwood and Richmond for crowds throughout the 1920s and 1930s.

The key thing is that away games in Victoria are the only ones Swans members in Melbourne can attend. We bring more away fans to games at the G than the Dogs or the Roos, since their members are naturally inclined to attend the home match they play following week (for which their membership gives them access). I'd say we'd be well below North for raw numbers of supporters in Melbourne - maybe around 50% of their total or something. I think remember someone here sharing AFL member numbers by club affiliation: that would be useful indicator.

Interesting question where the club would stand in the pecking order had we not moved to Sydney. I think we were probably at a disadvantage geographically i.e. without an obvious claim on parts of the city that were growing. The other thing is that the Swans (among other clubs) got shafted in being allocated a s**t zone. Hawthorn and Carlton got lucky on that front.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Admittedly the Swans do, more often than not, outdraw the Dogs and North against MCG co-tenants.

Is it too much of a stretch to suggest they are bigger in Melbourne?

North v Hawthorn last week drew just over 30,000 in the graveyard slot, switch it to the MCG and make Hawthorn the home team and it probably draws another 5,000 to 7,000 people. So, it's clear that South would have brought more than North to an away game.

I do wonder where South would stand in the pecking order had they not moved to Sydney.

If you look at the old attendance records they were neck and neck with Carlton (always number 1) Collingwood and Richmond for crowds throughout the 1920s and 1930s.

Last.

Less games in Melbourne means each game means more. So the Swans supporters turn up. Plus, they havent been bad for a long long long time.

It Would be interesting if South would be the first team to move in the 1980's if they had North's success in the previous decade(1970's). But they were screwed by geography like Fitzroy were. Long run, it would have always been hard to survive with Melbourne around and connected to the inner city and MCG.

 

[ep12]

Admittedly the Swans do, more often than not, outdraw the Dogs and North against MCG co-tenants.

Is it too much of a stretch to suggest they are bigger in Melbourne?

North v Hawthorn last week drew just over 30,000 in the graveyard slot, switch it to the MCG and make Hawthorn the home team and it probably draws another 5,000 to 7,000 people. So, it's clear that South would have brought more than North to an away game.

I do wonder where South would stand in the pecking order had they not moved to Sydney.

If you look at the old attendance records they were neck and neck with Carlton (always number 1) Collingwood and Richmond for crowds throughout the 1920s and 1930s.

I think you misunderstand. Sydney absolutely bring more away support in Melbourne that the Dogs/Roos/Saints do. I exclude Melbourne, because we still fill the MCC at away games.

My point was that there were a few nuffies in this thread from a few years back who were saying that Sydney outnumber Bulldogs and North supporters when its a Bulldogs or North home game at Marvel against Sydney.

 

[ep12]

Last.

Less games in Melbourne means each game means more. So the Swans supporters turn up. Plus, they havent been bad for a long long long time.

It Would be interesting if South would be the first team to move in the 1980's if they had North's success in the previous decade(1970's). But they were screwed by geography like Fitzroy were. Long run, it would have always been hard to survive with Melbourne around and connected to the inner city and MCG.

One thing of note which came as a fixture quirk was that Sydney has played all three of its MCG games in the first 7 weeks. A long time between drinks if you have an MCG final in 18 weeks time.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

After Round 7 (excluding Gather Round)

HOME CROWDS
Club (# of home games played) = Total (Average)

• Collingwood (2) = 144,767 (72,384)
• Essendon (3) = 211,861 (70,620)
• Carlton (3) = 170,638 (56,879)
• Geelong (3) = 158,321 (52,774)
• Hawthorn (3) = 149,032 (49,677)
• Richmond (3) = 148,206 (49,402)
• West Coast (3) = 144,539 (48,180)
• St Kilda (2) = 96,236 (48,118)
• Fremantle (3) = 137,572 (45,857)
• Adelaide (2) = 91,458 (45,729)
• Melbourne (2) = 87,198 (43,599)
• Sydney (3) = 110,615 (36,872)
• Port Adelaide (4) = 147,299 (36,825)
• Brisbane Lions (3) = 97,818 (32,606)
• Western Bulldogs (3) = 82,887 (27,629)
• North Melbourne (4) = 100,529 (25,132)
• Gold Coast (4) = 58,892 (14,723)
• GWS (4) = 54,797 (13,699)

HOME AND AWAY CROWDS
Club (# of games played) = Total (Average)

• Collingwood (6) = 363,185 (60,531)
• Essendon (6) = 343,659 (57,277)
• Carlton (6) = 339,345 (56,558)
• Richmond (6) = 301,838 (50,306)
• Geelong (6) = 300,528 (50,088)
• Melbourne (6) = 282,115 (47,019)
• Sydney (6) = 272,712 (45,452)
• Hawthorn (6) = 267,385 (44,564)
• Fremantle (6) = 245,292 (40,882)
• Port Adelaide (6) = 243,387 (40,565)
• St Kilda (6) = 232,754 (38,792)
• West Coast (6) = 212,200 (35,367)
• Adelaide (6) = 204,971 (34,162)
• Western Bulldogs (6) = 199,637 (33,273)
• Brisbane Lions (6) = 194,600 (32,433)
• North Melbourne (6) = 139,757 (23,293)
• GWS (6) = 137,672 (22,945)
• Gold Coast (6) = 104,293 (17,382)