List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[gbatman]

Shopping list is getting pretty long but not impossible.

CHB. Marchbank was locked in by the coach at the end of the season and he finished off really well in the role. But is he too unreliable? Can we find a mature CHB who's good enough? Could we get a few years out of Jeremy McGovern

20

Jeremy Mcgovern

Age

32

Ht

197cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

4.6

3star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

238.7

4star

D

12.4

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

183.4

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

7.2

5star

T

1.4

4star

?

Half forward and forward pocket. I reckon Hollands may have a flank locked down and Cottrell is ok. But do we have the speed and the talent there? I think Hollands will end up in the middle. I don't think Cottrell is a top level half forward flanker. Martin tends to play forward pocket and is too unreliable. Moir is miles away. Geelong were able to bring in some good half forwards easily a few years back. Can we do the same?

A couple of fast paced half forwards who can mark overhead and have a good all round game would be ideal.

The medium forward role is also an open position. Martin is too unreliable and Silvagni is coming back from a knee reco. He may not be exactly the answer.

Fast paced defensive onballer. Defensive onballers are not taggers. They are fast paced players, who chase and tackle at an elite level, can swoop on the lose ball and opposition ball carrier and are good enough offensively to play on the ball. One or two would be good. A mature one and a developing one. Hopefully we already have one or two developing.

What I want to see. Recruit two really good half forward flankers. Push Elijah Hollands into the middle of the ground and add a fast, hard tackling onballer to the group.

Retain Marchbank if he gets through the season but also recruit a player who can play that CHB role. Maybe we take a punt on Jeremy McGovern

20

Jeremy Mcgovern

Age

32

Ht

197cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

4.6

3star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

238.7

4star

D

12.4

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

183.4

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

7.2

5star

T

1.4

4star

. I think taking risks is something we simply must do. If there is a better option out there then fine, go for it.

Push Kemp to the wing. Put all his preseason into developing him as a wingman.

A medium forward. Someone fast, good on the ground and good in the air. Not sure who but we need to have a really good look around.


Boyd Weitering McGovern
Saad (Marchbank or new player) Williams
Kemp Cripps Acres
NEW PLAYER Curnow NEW PLAYER
Motlop McKay NEW PLAYER
TDK Walsh Cerra
Newman (E Hollands as a mid) (NEW MID) Docherty

Depth: Silvagni Cowan Hollands Kennedy Hewett Fogarty Fantasia Durdin Durdin Martin Binns Pittonet Cuningham Wilson Cincotta Cottrell Moir Owies

Trade from the depth field if possibly. Those not listed likely delisted.

This is what we need to do to 1, improve the side to premier contendere and 2, bring the side into the modern era of being a better pressure side around the ball and being a more outside and effective team on the outside.

 

[macky99]

Shopping list is getting pretty long but not impossible.

CHB. Marchbank was locked in by the coach at the end of the season and he finished off really well in the role. But is he too unreliable? Can we find a mature CHB who's good enough? Could we get a few years out of Jeremy McGovern?

Half forward and forward pocket. I reckon Hollands may have a flank locked down and Cottrell is ok. But do we have the speed and the talent there? I think Hollands will end up in the middle. I don't think Cottrell is a top level half forward flanker. Martin tends to play forward pocket and is too unreliable. Moir is miles away. Geelong were able to bring in some good half forwards easily a few years back. Can we do the same?

A couple of fast paced half forwards who can mark overhead and have a good all round game would be ideal.

The medium forward role is also an open position. Martin is too unreliable and Silvagni is coming back from a knee reco. He may not be exactly the answer.

Fast paced defensive onballer. Defensive onballers are not taggers. They are fast paced players, who chase and tackle at an elite level, can swoop on the lose ball and opposition ball carrier and are good enough offensively to play on the ball. One or two would be good. A mature one and a developing one. Hopefully we already have one or two developing.

What I want to see. Recruit two really good half forward flankers. Push Elijah Hollands into the middle of the ground and add a fast, hard tackling onballer to the group.

Retain Marchbank if he gets through the season but also recruit a player who can play that CHB role. Maybe we take a punt on Jeremy McGovern. I think taking risks is something we simply must do. If there is a better option out there then fine, go for it.

Push Kemp to the wing. Put all his preseason into developing him as a wingman.

A medium forward. Someone fast, good on the ground and good in the air. Not sure who but we need to have a really good look around.


Boyd Weitering McGovern
Saad (Marchbank or new player) Williams
Kemp Cripps Acres
NEW PLAYER Curnow NEW PLAYER
Motlop McKay NEW PLAYER
TDK Walsh Cerra
Newman (E Hollands as a mid) (NEW MID) Docherty

Depth: Silvagni Cowan Hollands Kennedy Hewett Fogarty Fantasia Durdin Durdin Martin Binns Pittonet Cuningham Wilson Cincotta Cottrell Moir Owies

Trade from the depth field if possibly. Those not listed likely delisted.

This is what we need to do to 1, improve the side to premier contendere and 2, bring the side into the modern era of being a better pressure side around the ball and being a more outside and effective team on the outside.

lnteresting suggestion going for another riddled player Jeremy McGovern, based on our track record absolutely no.

We need to hit the draft hard & find 1- 2 free agents to provide more speed in the middle & a quality small/mid forward.
lnvesting in a 32 year old injury prone player is not a smart move.

lt is all well taking risks, but the decisions need to be considered with high probability of success, this one is not a smart move.

 

[M_I_G]

lot of ‘let’s just play TDK in ruck and drop pitto’ posts. Music to my ears
As someone said “we gain a little (with pitto) but lose a lot”
Coaches need to be as bold as they were when they picked pitto, and drop him.

 

[Michael Jezz]

You tell me? Anyone 22 and under on our list making life difficult for the opposition?

Let’s take Sydney for instance…

• Gulden
• Warner
• McDonald
• Campbell

Then for then aged 23

• Rowbottom
• Jordan
• McInerney

Even at 24

• Blakey
• Wicks

They also have a s**t ton of really good 25 year olds.

We on the other hand for 23 and under

• Walsh 23
• EHollands 22
• OHollands 20
• Carroll 21
• Cowan 19
• Motlop 20
• Kemp 23

There’s a huge difference and if you are happy with our talent 22 and under and think it’s fine, than that’s cool. I don’t see it that way

I absolutely agree, I question our list management. However, Swans have 6 "A" & B graders gifted by their acadamy: Most are on your list: Heeney, Blakey, Gulden, Mills, Wicks, Campbell. The club is 42 years old in a 2 team team wealthy state and should not be subsidised. Take 3 of those out of their side and put Saad, Cerra, Martin in ours and things even up. However, it does not explain our lack of contest, pressure and effort. Blues still lose without it

 

[BlueJet]

If the 2 ruck solution isn't working why is the solution to drop the no. 1 ruck and not the 2nd option?
I get that some were happier with TDK's early season form than I but Pitt & H is just as viable as TDK & H.
Frankly, I have TDK amongst those needing to lift.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Not sure we are better at all with Pitto as 1st ruck at all.
Opposition teams are now honing in on Pitto/Cripps combo it has become too predictable, TDK growth is also being impacted, we have only won 2 from 6 with Pitto in the ruck.

Voss needs to back TDK as 1st ruck and have a more traditional 2nd ruck combo.

Are you Irish, at all at all, at all?

 

[Stamos]

If the 2 ruck solution isn't working why is the solution to drop the no. 1 ruck and not the 2nd option?
I get that some were happier with TDK's early season form than I but Pitt & H is just as viable as TDK & H.
Frankly, I have TDK amongst those needing to lift.

Is Pitto really the No.1 ruckman?
Or is he just the one who’s incapable of playing major forwardline minutes so it’s TDK who gets moved?

 

[Andypooh23]

We should get in the ear of Max Gruzewski froms GWS. Be a perfect 3rd forward.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

You tell me? Anyone 22 and under on our list making life difficult for the opposition?

Let’s take Sydney for instance…

• Gulden
• Warner
• McDonald
• Campbell

Then for then aged 23

• Rowbottom
• Jordan
• McInerney

Even at 24

• Blakey
• Wicks

They also have a s**t ton of really good 25 year olds.

We on the other hand for 23 and under

• Walsh 23
• EHollands 22
• OHollands 20
• Carroll 21
• Cowan 19
• Motlop 20
• Kemp 23

There’s a huge difference and if you are happy with our talent 22 and under and think it’s fine, than that’s cool. I don’t see it that way

You tell me? Anyone 22 and under on our list making life difficult for the opposition?

Let’s take Sydney for instance…

• Gulden
• Warner
• McDonald
• Campbell

Then for then aged 23

• Rowbottom
• Jordan
• McInerney

Even at 24

• Blakey
• Wicks

They also have a s**t ton of really good 25 year olds.

We on the other hand for 23 and under

• Walsh 23
• EHollands 22
• OHollands 20
• Carroll 21
• Cowan 19
• Motlop 20
• Kemp 23

There’s a huge difference and if you are happy with our talent 22 and under and think it’s fine, than that’s cool. I don’t see it that way

If you’re going to mention 24’s with Wicks and Blakey then
TDK, Cerra and Cottrell too.

Funnily enough Warner is now 23 and those other three players in
McDonald pick 4
Campbell Pick 5 (academy)
Gulden (academy)
Probably tell us abit about the system. Give any side a free hit at Campbell and Gulden and a pick 4 and they probably come out with a very similar result.
In the last 5 drafts we have had one pick in the top 16.

In saying that, SOS’s last 7 first round draft picks he took in the draft netted us 2 players. Austin has only taken 1 in the last 4 drafts and he wouldn’t be playing if it wasn’t for injuries.
I’d have both this and next years first rounders on the table for the right player who is under 25. We have just blown so many picks I’ve near given up hope of us drafting our own stars.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

We should get in the ear of Max Gruzewski froms GWS. Be a perfect 3rd forward.

I still think SOS is the perfect third forward and the forgotten man, though I do like Gruzewski.

Harry and SOS can make up the ruck minutes that TDK can’t do. Then you recruit a bloke like Hayward as the mobile 4th forward to really give the opposition headaches.

Hollands McKay Fogarty
Motlop/Owies Curnow Hayward
Silvagni

I feel like that forward line has enough of everything. Pressure, goals, marking targets, midfield rotations, ruck presence.

And if we need to go in faster Silvagni comes out for Cottrell or Moir. We still have the ruck minutes made up if we just put a bit of faith in Harry and the marking ability of Hayward whilst he does chop out.

Durdin and Fantasia are just too one dimensional and we can’t be carrying two of them in the side if we want to be successful.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

As we will most likely get the twins, what have you got against trading our first rounder for proven youth?

I agree we need an influx of young talent and hopefully the twins provide that, but if there’s a quality U/23 wanting to come over, why not? That’s still youth without the risk.

Hopefully you can get youth without paying the cost but I’d hope we aren’t closed off to the idea.

There’s free agents there in positions of need, we should or pushing hard here too

Proven youth for a 1st, yeah sure. But talk of players like Bolton would cost most likely 2 firsts. Imo it’s not the right option for us.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

If you’re going to mention 24’s with Wicks and Blakey then
TDK, Cerra and Cottrell too.

Funnily enough Warner is now 23 and those other three players in
McDonald pick 4
Campbell Pick 5 (academy)
Gulden (academy)
Probably tell us abit about the system. Give any side a free hit at Campbell and Gulden and a pick 4 and they probably come out with a very similar result.
In the last 5 drafts we have had one pick in the top 16.

In saying that, SOS’s last 7 first round draft picks he took in the draft netted us 2 players. Austin has only taken 1 in the last 4 drafts and he wouldn’t be playing if it wasn’t for injuries.
I’d have both this and next years first rounders on the table for the right player who is under 25. We have just blown so many picks I’ve near given up hope of us drafting our own stars.

Tdk currently is in no man’s land and costing us in dollars. Cerra has been good but not great. And Cottrell is a good role player.

It’s up to the club to get the picks right more often than not. Especially in the 1st 2 rounds.

And you’ve summed up my point perfectly. We over the past 4 or 5 years have more so focused on the now rather than the future and I totally get why we did. 1 pick in the top 16 over the past 5 years as you have mentioned. My point is we need to not go for the now so much from here on as appealing as it is. We must pick really good kids over the next 2 drafts otherwise if we don’t, we will certainly be rebuilding while Tasmania chew up most top picks.

It’s a tough balancing act. I’d go:
1st round pick to the draft and not trade it.
Get 1 if not 2 free agents
Get the Campo boys.
Remove and trade off players that aren’t either working for us or haven’t found their role as of yet.

 

[Soapy V]

I’ve said all along it’s run and skill through the middle

Fully fit our forward line is very good although an X factor small forward would be good

We need another key defender

Get Silvagni Docherty Saad Cerra Fogarty Martin back into that side and we are very good

Issues is you rarely have everyone fit and our next level players are average or still too young

I like Lemmey Wilson O’Keefee Monahan and would keep them. The rest is up for grabs

8-10 changes are needed

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Tdk currently is in no man’s land and costing us in dollars. Cerra has been good but not great. And Cottrell is a good role player.

It’s up to the club to get the picks right more often than not. Especially in the 1st 2 rounds.

And you’ve summed up my point perfectly. We over the past 4 or 5 years have more so focused on the now rather than the future and I totally get why we did. 1 pick in the top 16 over the past 5 years as you have mentioned. My point is we need to not go for the now so much from here on as appealing as it is. We must pick really good kids over the next 2 drafts otherwise if we don’t, we will certainly be rebuilding while Tasmania chew up most top picks.

It’s a tough balancing act. I’d go:
1st round pick to the draft and not trade it.
Get 1 if not 2 free agents
Get the Campo boys.
Remove and trade off players that aren’t either working for us or haven’t found their role as of yet.

Yeh more just pointing out over the last 5 drafts the only first round picks Sydney have who are playing they found with picks 4 and 5. They got an academy kid (Gulden) and nailed the Warner pick. Outside of Warner they haven’t really done anything great in drafting for 5 years but have had good picks and an academy. They also haven’t got anyone playing who they have drafted in the last 3 years.
We are now in the situation where we are by design supposed to find it hard to bring in talent.
If we have to trade for players I couldn’t care less if we are trading our first rounders but I agree they do need to have plenty of years ahead of them to avoid falling off the cliff in 5 years.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

Is it time to admitt TDK is lost as a forward, and not smart enough to be a Ruckman who mixes up his game, not just winning the contest? Is he the missing Key Defender we've wanted since Jones didn't want the jab? His brother goes alright in the gig, TDK would be a dominant defender intercepting anything that came his way, would also be the 'defensive' ruckman whilst Harry does the job in the forward half. A much better option than trading him, although just imagine what Geelong would have to put together for that to happen. I'd expect multiple first round selections, they'd be salivating at the thought, especially how they were so exposed by the Sun's.

 

[Blue and Silver]

The same Cam Zurhaar who averages more than 1.3 goals a game? The guy who kicks more goals and gets more touches a game than Will Hayward? The same guy who lays more tackles and scores double the amount of goals as Hollands?

It’s crazy when you dislike someone for whatever reason, you see what you want to see.

He averages 1.4 a game, Hollands 0.8

13 touches to 15.5

3.1 tackles to 2.4

1 clearance to 1.4

2.6 marks to 3.4

4.5 score involvements on both sides.

It's not exactly a huge difference

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Faith and patience have ran out.

Cuningham, Marchbank and Martin have all got to be delisted.
Don't care how much talent they have. There is no point having all the talent and skills if you are rarely there to showcase them.
We need fitter and tougher bodies. It might sound harsh, but the truth is they are letting their teammates down. Of course they nor anyone else for that matter wants to be injured, but they have had long enough to contemplate whether footy is right for them. From the outside, it isn't. And this is a shame because I was one to really like what they bring... and at times they have brought it.
And like I shared earlier with Cuningham, to only play 30% of games across 8.5 seasons is a ridiculously low return. A whole 6 seasons have seen him for the most part on the sidelines with calf problems and other issues.

Alex Mirkov is too a certain out for me. Once you suffer some kind of heart issue, that is an automatic out for me. We only have one heart and it is too delicate of a muscle to be risking with any kind of intense sport after it suffers any kind of hiccup.

Fantasia regardless of his contract status, I would be letting go. Nothing wrong with a free hit here and there. But the club needs to learn there are more ways to build a list than attempting to strike gold in an op shop.
He is well and truly past his prime and his body after so many issues will never be the same, especially when his assigned role is to get down and dirty at the feet of his fellow tall forwards to create scoring. Let's be real, he won't be doing that.

S.Durdin will certainly be moved on.
Akuei very much likely too.

That is 7 outs at the end of the year.

Leek Aleer is definitely a name I like to hear about bringing in. Hayward too though he will certainly be harder to entice.
Basically anyone will do me, so long as they are for the most part durable. No more of this "scavenging from the injury list and believing we can get them right" crap. FIT bodies! FIT!!!

We can invest in speed in the draft.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'm normally the king of the overreactions in here but we've seen what we look like at our best and that it is indeed good enough. We just don't see it enough.

End of season it's a simple equation of getting rid of the unreliable and bringing in sound, durable replacements.

No need to blow up the list by trading TDK and Harry etc. A quality small forward would be great and would help out pace issue through the midfield too.

 

[gbatman]

lnteresting suggestion going for another riddled player Jeremy McGovern, based on our track record absolutely no.

We need to hit the draft hard & find 1- 2 free agents to provide more speed in the middle & a quality small/mid forward.
lnvesting in a 32 year old injury prone player is not a smart move.

lt is all well taking risks, but the decisions need to be considered with high probability of success, this one is not a smart move.

It might be an alternative to nothing and Marchbank. You can't always go out and get what you want.

Hitting the draft hard means restarting the rebuild. We need to find players who will fill our needs for the next 3 or 4 years. Our even just two years, that gives us time and could give us a flag.

Hitting the draft hard will be great for when the window closes. I'm not sure what 18 year olds who will be AFL ready in 2-5 years will offer us in our window which is the next 3-4 years.

If we don't take risks we give ourselves 0 chance of winning one in the next 3-4 years while our window is open.

Conservative and safe means we start another rebuild.

 

[Arr0w]

Plenty of mature age players at other club that can cover for the likes of Marchbank and Cuners

Martin and Gov a little more difficult to find a replacement

 

[Prem17]

Slow players are hard to kick to compared to fast players. You can miss a fast player by 10m and they still get to it. You miss a slow player by 10 meters and the ball hits the ground or an opponent first. Something I learnt very early in my footy career.

Our kicking is not fabulous over the board but you do have to hit slow guys perfectly, there's a lot less margin for error compared to quicker players.

I think our lack of leg speed amplifies the kicking deficiencies in our side. Fast teams just seem to be able to make skill errors and things still come off.

Some of the good sides, you will see them knock the ball forward, accidently hit up one on ones in the middle and it comes off for them because they have the leg speed once the ball is in open space. We can't get away doing those things because we're too slow over the entire field.

Our game plan and team structure is for footy prior to 2022. The game has changed a lot since then and those teams who's lists were ready for that or have adjusted to that are the better teams. We are still outdated in structure and tactics.

Our kicking would be a lot better if our players were a lot better at making up ground and getting to it.

Agree with all that.
I don't know if you watched the game vs Williamstown but one thing that stood out was the lack of footy smarts of some of the AFL listed players.
Basics, like trying to mark on the chest whilst backing into a 2 on 1, and being in open space whilst kicking with the breeze and handballing to a player in a 2 on 1 situation.
Those kind of things get you dragged in an amateur game. They're taught to you from the age of 5, so there's little chance that that kind of situational awareness will improve much now.
We do need a lot more speed but these skill errors are hurtin' on my brain, as Pauly (Housos) would say!

 

[gbatman]

I’ve said all along it’s run and skill through the middle

Fully fit our forward line is very good although an X factor small forward would be good

We need another key defender

Get Silvagni Docherty Saad Cerra Fogarty Martin back into that side and we are very good

Issues is you rarely have everyone fit and our next level players are average or still too young

I like Lemmey Wilson O’Keefee Monahan and would keep them. The rest is up for grabs

8-10 changes are needed

We are going to have to trade players to make such changes. I'm not sure who will have currency. I think we need to attract some centremen with some real pace and tackling pressure, players who can bring serious pressure. Would be happy to trade Kennedy and Hewett who I think will have value. I said it at the end of last year and the end of the previous season, our midfield needs a mini rebuild to catch up with modern football.

You look at Collingwood. Daicos and Crisp go into the middle and add pace, pressure and tackle pretty hard. Sets up their defence to intercept and rebound. We don't have that and we need that.

We have a cracking backline that is going to waste because it needs a pressure midfield in front of it and we don't have it.

I doubt we could trade Cuningham, Marchbank or Martin. No trade value. So those saying we need to get rid of them are committing to a rebuild. There goes the CHB and Medium forward we desperately need for nothing. All well and good to say they can go but they need to be replaced with someone who can play AFL at a high level or they may as well stay.

We aren't winning a flag without Marchbank and Martin unless we can replace them with as good or better. If we get rid of them and don't replace them, forget next season as being a contender. So we need to have our options if we go down that path.

I think we should be pushing E Hollands into the middle and chasing forwards pretty hard. Not little blokes but medium sized forwards who can run, mark overhead and hit pretty hard at the contest. I don't see Hollands as a top level forward, but I think he will make a pretty good mid who can drift forward and kick the odd goal.

Those players would make a big difference. They all bring solid running ability and a medium forward is what we need. Silvagni's ground level and aerial game is what makes him valuable.

I think we need to trade really hard but I think it's going to have to be draft picks. I think we only have a few players we can really trade. But that will be up to the other clubs.

 

[Prem17]

If the 2 ruck solution isn't working why is the solution to drop the no. 1 ruck and not the 2nd option?
I get that some were happier with TDK's early season form than I but Pitt & H is just as viable as TDK & H.
Frankly, I have TDK amongst those needing to lift.

If we weren't so hard hit by injuries he'd be playing VFL atm.
I love his best footy but there is too big a gap between his best and worst atm.

 

[Soapy V]

We are going to have to trade players to make such changes.

No we don't.

We will have 2 extra players through mid season draft
3-4 draft picks
Rookie Picks
Free Agents
Trading future picks
Multi pick swaps
SSP's
Irish recruits etc

So many options these days

 

[gbatman]

Agree with all that.
I don't know if you watched the game vs Williamstown but one thing that stood out was the lack of footy smarts of some of the AFL listed players.
Basics, like trying to mark on the chest whilst backing into a 2 on 1, and being in open space whilst kicking with the breeze and handballing to a player in a 2 on 1 situation.
Those kind of things get you dragged in an amateur game. They're taught to you from the age of 5, so there's little chance that that kind of situational awareness will improve much now.
We do need a lot more speed but these skill errors are hurtin' on my brain, as Pauly (Housos) would say!

I didn't watch the Willy game but I saw the one the week before. I don't see anything in O'Keefe, Lemmy or Mirkov. Any recruiter who drafts talls who don't mark overhead needs a kick up the arse, that's rule number one when it comes to talls. Akuei will never get anywhere near AFL. None of them are VFL quality players, they are average to good premier league players. I understand you need to be patient, particularly with talls, but generally if young developing players have it, they show glimpses of it and none of these guys show glimpses.

I think some of our recruiting has been pretty poor the last few seasons. However I think Wilson has it and I can see Binns making it. Some talent from other clubs and at the top end of the draft but outside that I'm not very excited.

All this talk about a list cleanout coming from the mature injury prone players. I can see that maybe happening, but there's a fair amount of youth who don't have it.

We need to get players in from other clubs who will fit the need and will perform. Hopefully the Camporeales are a free hit of talent.