A judgement on the merit of Collingwood's draft picks

[Number 10]

I got this idea from the Sydney board where they have compiled their premiership 22 and the picks they were taken in the draft/what they traded to get them.

It really does reiterate the fact that with a good game plan, very good development techniques and a team environment and team style of play, you can be just as successful, if not more than the side that has been gifted plenty of 1st rounders.

So I want to compare Collingwood's most successful best 22 in the last 2 years with their draft position. This is the 2010 premiership side:

Maxwell - #15 Rookie
Brown - #10 Draft
Toovey - #2 Rookie
O'Brien - #20 Rookie
Reid - #8 Draft
Shaw - #48 F/S
Wellingham - #10 Rookie
Swan - #58 Draft
Johnson - #62 Draft
Beams - #29 Draft
Cloke - #39 F/S
Sidebottom - #11 Draft
Didak - #3 Draft
Dawes - #28 Draft
Ball - #30 Draft*
Jolly - Trade for #14
Pendles - #5 Draft
Thomas - #2 Draft
Blair - #27 Rookie
Macaffer - #26 Rookie
Goldsack - #63 Draft
L Brown - #73 Draft

Bold is late draft/rookie. Normal is First Round and Red is Late 2nd round.

It seems as though we are held up by the extremes - the highly talented juniors worthy of a high selection and the rest who were not. We had 6 Rookies, 7 first rounders, 3 late second rounders and 6 3rd-6th rounders. (Traded players based on trade value - i.e. Jolly = pick 14)

It is interesting to compare to Sydney for instance who seem to do it so so well. They had 4 Rookies, 3 first rounders, 5 late second rounders and 10 3rd - 6th rounders. (Once again traded players based on their trade value - i.e. Richards = pick 19)

Adam Goodes - #43 ND
Alex Johnson - #57 ND
Craig Bird - #59 ND
Dan Hannebery - #30 ND
Heath Grundy - #42 Rookie
Jarrad McVeigh - #5 ND
Josh Kennedy - #40 ND (Obtained with McGlynn using picks 39, 46 and 70)
Jude Bolton - #8 ND
Kieren Jack - #57 Rookie
Lewis Jetta - #14 ND
Lewis Roberts-Thomson - #29 ND
Luke Parker - #40 ND
Martin Mattner - #51 Rookie (Obtained using pick 28)
Mike Pyke - #101 ND
Mitch Morton - #44 (Obtained using pick 79)
Nick Malceski - #64 ND
Nick Smith - #15 Rookie
Rhyce Shaw - #18 ND (Obtained along with pick 61 using pick 46)
Ryan O'Keefe - #56 ND
Sam Reid - #38 ND
Shane Mumford - #57 Rookie (Obtained using pick 28)
Ted Richards - #27 ND (Obtained along with pick 55 using picks 19 and 51)

Then you look at teams like Richmond, Carlton - It sort of makes you think the draft is a bit over rated.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Then you look at teams like Richmond, Carlton - It sort of makes you think the draft is a bit over rated.

Particularly given that the two Brownlow medalists on those lists were drafted at 43 and 58

(Yeah, yeah, Brownlow means SFA - but still, everybody would be happy with picking up a Brownlow medalist at 58)

The draft is still important. We're justifiably chuffed at our three first rounders. But it's only part of the puzzle. Good development and good training is also important.

Would Jack Watts have become a better player if he were drafted by Collingwood? You bet! Would Fasolo be as good as he is if he'd been picked up by Melbourne instead? No way!

 

[The Royal Sampler]

There's no way Rhyce Shaw netted us pick #18.

 

[Number 10]

There's no way Rhyce Shaw netted us pick #18.

Sorry - the sydney guy set it out a bit different from me - he has Player/Original draft pick/What they traded for that player. i.e. Shaw was taken pick 18 by us, they then traded pick 46 to us for Shaw and 61.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Ah, fair enough, sorry for misunderstanding.

 

[Number 10]

Ah, fair enough, sorry for misunderstanding.

I don't know if I can forgive you.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

 

[Number 10]

Good thread - would read again.

 

[Copeland]

Wow that's really interesting. We had 6 rookies and 5 top ten players.

 

[DaVe86]

I think Sydney's strength was their willingness to trade for fringe players. They have had a few busts, but a lot of wins.

What they do well is identify someone who has a lot of upside but is just struggling to break into a team in his position.

Kennedy and McGlynn were been pushed out of the Hawks midfield, and the Hawks needed salary cap room for their stars and to get Burgoyne, Gibson etc.

Mumford was not going to displace Ottens

Rhyce Shaw was in good form until he did he knee and was lacking confidence.

Mattner was a solid defender at Adelaide, and Ted Richards just needed game time.

Everitt needed game-time as well, whilst Morton had talent but was on the outer at Richmond.

The other argument is that they could probably afford to pay all these guys a lot more than anyone else was willing due to their concessions with the salary cap. So for a fringe player earning base wage, this offer is attractive.



Collingwood on the other hand has built more through the draft and nailing every draft pick in the first few rounds. Pendlebury, Thomas, Reid, Brown, Beams, SIdebottom are all very much the core of the side. We've done well with the Father Son rule with Cloke and Shaw.

We've also nailed rookie selections.

Then when we were ready, we chased 2 big fish in Jolly and Ball. The only real recycled player that was part of our flag was Leigh Brown. We are now having some success with Krakouer, but apart from that we build our own players and then try to attract a big fish.

 

[Number 10]

I think Sydney's strength was their willingness to trade for fringe players. They have had a few busts, but a lot of wins.

What they do well is identify someone who has a lot of upside but is just struggling to break into a team in his position.

Kennedy and McGlynn were been pushed out of the Hawks midfield, and the Hawks needed salary cap room for their stars and to get Burgoyne, Gibson etc.

Mumford was not going to displace Ottens

Rhyce Shaw was in good form until he did he knee and was lacking confidence.

Mattner was a solid defender at Adelaide, and Ted Richards just needed game time.

Everitt needed game-time as well, whilst Morton had talent but was on the outer at Richmond.

The other argument is that they could probably afford to pay all these guys a lot more than anyone else was willing due to their concessions with the salary cap. So for a fringe player earning base wage, this offer is attractive.



Collingwood on the other hand has built more through the draft and nailing every draft pick in the first few rounds. Pendlebury, Thomas, Reid, Brown, Beams, SIdebottom are all very much the core of the side. We've done well with the Father Son rule with Cloke and Shaw.

We've also nailed rookie selections.

Then when we were ready, we chased 2 big fish in Jolly and Ball. The only real recycled player that was part of our flag was Leigh Brown. We are now having some success with Krakouer, but apart from that we build our own players and then try to attract a big fish.

I think any team that gets that balance right in the near future will be very successful - which I hope Collingwood have done this pre-season. We have brought in 3 players who weren't worth as much at their other clubs and whilst also reaching for some good draft selections.

 

[DaVe86]

I think any team that gets that balance right in the near future will be very successful - which I hope Collingwood have done this pre-season. We have brought in 3 players who weren't worth as much at their other clubs and whilst also reaching for some good draft selections.

exactly, I don't think there is any one recipe....but what has shown is that you need to recruit a balanced team...not one top heavy with stars and then an undercurrent of strugglers.

St.K didn't win a flag because its bottom 10 was horrible, whilst Carlton haven't improved despite having 3-5 years of high draft picks.

We have a number of role-players, but these guys are very disciplined and stick to their roles.

This is why I don't necessarily buy into the 'best available' method of recruiting (unless you have a top 3 pick). I think you need to identify areas of weakness and top up.

In some regards, having picks outside the top 10 is a bit of a blessing in disguise because you get good kids who do their jobs or fill holes...as opposed to top 10 selections who are often just taken on the basis of best available and you don't get the role-players.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Then when we were ready, we chased 2 big fish in Jolly and Ball. The only real recycled player that was part of our flag was Leigh Brown. We are now having some success with Krakouer, but apart from that we build our own players and then try to attract a big fish.

We had a few busts this way ourselves - Corrie was an obvious one (but from memory we didn't pay much for him). Buckley S. failed to set the world on fire, although we got a few serviceable AFL games out of him. Wood was a flunk given we gave up a first rounder for him - wonder what would have happened if we didn't pick up Jolly?