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Post-Human
Why did the not do that with Fraser like they are doing with Ceglar?
More of the Article here:
http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/128713/default.aspx
News A long weight - Ceglar Article
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Why did the not do that with Fraser like they are doing with Ceglar?
More of the Article here:
http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/128713/default.aspx
They would have learnt from Fraser. Ceglar isn't and won't be our #1 ruckman for a while yet, whereas Fraser was thrown in the deep end too early. A big problem with Fraser was that soon after his debut the club was in premiership mode with no other viable options in the ruck. It was down to a lack of options and needing the team to play well as to why too much responsibility was thrown on Fraser.
One reason Fraser also played early in his career was because he could play as a forward and was better than a lot of the players on the list. The error was giving him too many minutes in the ruck, then continuing to play him there.
As for Ceglar, it's good to read he's put on 10kg, although if he was 86kg to start with is sounds like he'll need to add another 10kg again.
By the way, interesting that he was a late starter with football. Hopefully it's a sign that he has a lot of development to go.
People forget Steve McKee easily! He was our number one ruck when we where in premiership mode! Fraser was a gun forward.
I didn't forget him, but he was rubbish, and because of that we had to play Fraser in the ruck way too much. McKee's tactic was to block the opposition ruckman's run, stand his ground and then hopefully get a hit out (but his main aim was to just stop his opponent getting to the ball). I think 2003/4 the AFL changed the rucking rules which made McKee virtually useless and he was delisted soon after.
mattys123
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As long as I live I will never forget Steve Mckee.
We traded the number 3 draft pick for him, and if we had not have traded that pick, one Matthew Pavlich would have played 200 games for us by now, and Mick Malthouse would have had more then one premiership at Collingwood.
I don't blame Mckee, he tried his heart out, but **** me, he wasn't worth a number 3 draft pick.
As for Ceglar, good to hear he's developing, a Ceglar/Witts combination in the ruck and up forward from 2014 on is the realistic target one would be led to think.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
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How do we know we would of Picked Pavlic 100%. We could of Picked Fiora or even Leroy. We moved down to Pick 7 and we Picked Roach instead of Brad Green or Darren Glass
Also reckon they be great 1-2 Punch
It's hard to say a player like Pavlich would have won the side a flag. He might have made the side's chances of a flag worse overall (higher finishes so we never got decent picks like Thomas & Pendles).
You're right as well Dave, knowing how bad our recruiting was at the time we probably would have picked up a spud like Fiora.
You're right as well Dave, knowing how bad our recruiting was at the time we probably would have picked up a spud like Fiora.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
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We might not of need Pendles and Thomas though we could still wound of with Pendles
I would not of put it pass Judkins of even Selecting Roach at 4
I agree totally with Matty on this one.
If we didn't get Mackee or Roach we could have and should have picked PAVLICH.
Could you imagine in 2002-2003 if we had Rocca and Pavlich and Tarrant as the third tall,could have and would have have given us that edge against Brisbane in those grand finals.At that time PAVLICH was a super player we could have switched him into the midfield as well as playing in the forward line he would have been sensational and i have no doubt we would have won at least one or both of those grand finals with PAVLICH.
This is why recruiting the right players is so importnat to premiership success,2010 we got Jolly and BALL and the rest is history.
If we didn't get Mackee or Roach we could have and should have picked PAVLICH.
Could you imagine in 2002-2003 if we had Rocca and Pavlich and Tarrant as the third tall,could have and would have have given us that edge against Brisbane in those grand finals.At that time PAVLICH was a super player we could have switched him into the midfield as well as playing in the forward line he would have been sensational and i have no doubt we would have won at least one or both of those grand finals with PAVLICH.
This is why recruiting the right players is so importnat to premiership success,2010 we got Jolly and BALL and the rest is history.
TradeDraft
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Manic Magpie
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Watching Ceglar get highest super coach score for Hawthorn highlighted the awful mistake we made delisting him at the end of 2012. I await the 'move on' and 'not again' calls from those posters who see only sunshine emitting from the arseholes of our list management people. How do we manage to gift such valuable players to teams we least want to get stronger? Ceglar looked more dangerous than any of our ruck/forwards this year. Yet another player who slipped under the radar of our footy quality control department.
And to add insult to injury there is a good chance that next year we will be watching Martin at another club and wondering why we didn't give him an opportunity. But those in the 'club can do no wrong' camp will come up with excuses
eddiebankbalance
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His a Hawthorn player now.
/Thread.
/Thread.
Ceglar is getting infinitely better supply than what our forwards will ever get. He is also getting plenty of support from more intelligent forwards who know when to drop in and out of space and when to fly past for a handball. The club made a call, he's thriving in a different environment, we should deal with it. Didnt he have application issues at Collingwood? If so, got a second chance and has grabbed it. Not the first or last time that's going to happen.
s**t happens. Some of us just don't want to spit bile all over the place over every wrong call the club makes.
I think Hawthorns loss of Kennedy and drafting of Garlett are the equal of anything we have done in the last year.
Must be great in your world where you never make a wrong call. Oh wait I read your posts, you make wrong calls all the time.
We had 2 years to have a look at what Ceglar brought to the table and have kept other players with a similar or lesser return/potential on the list longer, plus every club passed him over in 2012 when he was rookie listed by Hawthorn. Hawthorn themselves also trialled Shae McNamara as an alternative. McNamara was only told on the day of the draft it wasn't going his way, so you'd assume it was a pretty close call.
Manic Magpie
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So your point is ...? We kept players with less potential then other clubs also passed over him. Funnily enough Hawthorn's judgement proved wisest. He is performing best where we are weakest, as a second ruck/forward. He would make a very handy back up to Cloke.
Bring_Back_Brad
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Manic Rarely ever makes a wrong call he's one of the most considered posters on the board.
I never get anything wrong, and I'm still shocked ceglar was delisted. I really do often think what a better team we would have if I was the one at the club making the calls. Some really poor decisions in recent years and is costing us right now. Hawthorn took a punt on garlett but it didn't cost them much and sitting on top f the ladder right now there would be gap fair bit of meh about the affair.
If it's true that Martin is negotiating with other clubs then fair enough no point giving him the senior experience but we should have given more opportunities and incentive to stay and these poor decisions by bucks and the committee wouldn't be happening if I was in charge down there at westpac.
Are you taking the piss?
Yep pretty much a given these days. The club NEVER makes a mistake you know and dont dare criticise it
.After all the costly failed experiments with Dawes, Lynch and now possibly White as back up ruck did we let him go to Hawthorn?
Plenty of clubs in recent years have let listed players go without giving them a game, and they've gone on to do well elsewhere. Josh Jenkins (ex-Essendon) is going very nicely, Carrazzo (ex-Geelong), Sam Gibson (ex-Hawthorn), Jonathan Giles and Joel Patfull (ex-Port Adelaide). Patfull has won 2 B&F's in a row. Even throw in Podsiadly (ex-Essendon/Collingwood).
It happens.
It happens.
Did we move on Shaw and let Thomas go because of a lack of ability ?
I bet those who are unhappy with the Ceglar delisting are also those guys that wanted us to pick up Dayle Garlett.
I bet those who are unhappy with the Ceglar delisting are also those guys that wanted us to pick up Dayle Garlett.
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