Academy Watch

[Required]

I was specifically replying only to your view that the draft is to blame for kids leaving the game.

(1) I don’t believe it is, neither does Thommo 42.

(2) There are dozens of examples every year where over age and mature age players make it on to lists.

You only have to look at Keidean Coleman to see a kid who missed out in his draft year, but gave it a crack the year after, and was drafted.

If a kid doesn’t make “it”, it’s because multiple clubs, over multiple years don’t believe the kid has what it takes to succeed, whether that be athleticism, skills, mental fortitude or there’s off field issues at play.

(3)The vast majority of kids dropping out of the game from the Lions academy, aren’t dropping out because of the draft, because in all likelihood, none of them were ever actually a chance of being drafted.

(4)I’m not saying there isn’t a problem at the Lions academy.

(5)But I am saying your assertion that the draft is to blame for them dropping out is misguided.

(1) I said Thommo didnt . Whats your point?
(2) Easy. Name last years "DOZENS". 2 dozen will do.
(3) Dont just poo poo my thoughts, express some of your own ideas for the academies failures. Havent seen you post 1 reason yet.
(4) You do your best to defend them by attacking me. But you fail to come up with a single idea of what may be a problem. I think the best youve done is blame parents for saying something..
(5) Its just my opinion. Offer your own.
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[briztoon]

(1) I said Thommo didnt . Whats your point?
(2) Easy. Name last years "DOZENS". 2 dozen will do.
(3) Dont just poo poo my thoughts, express some of your own ideas for the academies failures. Havent seen you post 1 reason yet.
(4) You do your best to defend them by attacking me. But you fail to come up with a single idea of what may be a problem. I think the best youve done is blame parents for saying something..
(5) Its just my opinion. Offer your own.
.

(2) Bloody easy mate. How about 3 dozen. 27 over age players were selected in last year’s mid season draft.

Another 12 were signed during the SSP period before last season began.

And in a usual year, there are usually half a dozen over age (19 year olds) and mature age players drafted in the later half of the National Draft.

(3) & (4) if you went back and read the pages here, from before you joined the discussion, you would note I was the most critical of our academy not producing draftees.

Because I don’t have any connection to the academy or knowledge of how it’s run, I’m not in a position to offer solutions because I don’t know how it’s run.

Sometimes I believe you lump everyone who criticises you for something, all together. Thinking we’re all on the same page, criticising you for the same thing.

We’re not.

My main issue with you has been your aggressive posting towards people who have criticised what you’ve said and you’ve resorted to name calling or playing the man and not the ball.

Then you’ve introduced yourself in to the discussion and literally invited the same, and tried to prove how tuff you are by posting a boxing video of yourself.


Some of what you say has merit, but you lose credibility when you attack posters, nor do you actually acknowledge someone’s post when they actually reply to a point of yours.

 

[Required]

Bloody easy mate. How about 3 dozen. 27 over age players were selected in last year’s mid season draft.

Another 12 were signed during the SSP period before last season began.

And in a usual year, there are usually half a dozen over age (19 year olds) and mature age players drafted in the later half of the National Draft.

(3) & (4) if you went back and read the pages here, from before you joined the discussion, you would note I was the most critical of our academy not producing draftees.

Because I don’t have any connection to the academy or knowledge of how it’s run, I’m not in a position to offer solutions because I don’t know how it’s run.

Sometimes I believe you lump everyone who criticises you for something, all together. Thinking we’re all on the same page, criticising you for the same thing.

We’re not.

My main issue with you has been your aggressive posting towards people who have criticised what you’ve said and you’ve resorted to name calling or playing the man and not the ball.

Then you’ve introduced yourself in to the discussion and literally invited the same, and tried to prove how tuff you are by posting a boxing video of yourself.


Some of what you say has merit, but you lose credibility when you attack posters, nor do you actually acknowledge someone’s post when they actually reply to a point of yours.

(1) 3 dozen were selected that were never drafted before? If so, i stand corrected. Didnt know that.
(2) Well, its usually me vs the rest.. and i dont like to complicate things.
(3) Um... not me in the video. Though just like the ol fella did, i once also got hit by backhander from an inexperienced young heavyweight in an exhibition!

I don't know the actual stats, though i have heard them. The average draftee lasts about 3 years in the system, plays games in the single figures, and doesn't end up financially secure like one might imagine. So even if you do get drafted and become an 'average' draftee, while the experience would be priceless, it really doesn't set one up for life.

Sure they'd learn some good life skills, and get around some quality people, but in the end they would have to learn an actual skill that they've postponed doing while they're playing, and/or making other investments to succeed in life. Guess one should also be working on that..

 

[briztoon]

(1) 3 dozen were selected that were never drafted before? If so, i stand corrected. Didnt know that.
(2) Well, its usually me vs the rest.. and i dont like to complicate things.
(3) Um... not me in the video. Though just like the ol fella did, i once also got hit by an inexperienced young heavyweight in an exhibition!

I don't know the actual stats, though i have heard them. The average draftee lasts about 3 years in the system, plays games in the single figures, and doesn't end up financially secure like one might imagine. So even if you do get drafted and become an 'average' draftee, while the experience would be priceless, it really doesn't set one up for life.

Sure they'd learn some good life skills, and get around some quality people, but in the end they would have to learn an actual skill that they've postponed doing while they're playing, and/or making other investments to succeed in life. Guess one should also be working on that..

How can you criticise something if you didn’t know about it before?

Before covid hit, the AFL was very vocal about finding ways for more players to get on to lists.

That’s why the mid season draft was re-introduced and the SSP was introduced. Both were for players who missed out on being drafted in their draft year, and for mature age prospects.

Almost everything you mentioned in this post is regularly discussed on our Lions main board.

Do you follow the game and how the sport operates outside of your interactions with the academy.

All AFL players are encouraged to pursue part time studies or a trade. Both the AFLPA and individual clubs support players in looking at their post playing careers.

This is part of their orientation after being drafted.

Stef Martin completed a law degree. McCluggage and Berry are studying education. It’s one question each player is asked when they go on the clubs podcast, what are they looking at post playing career.


Every sport is competitive by nature for list spots, and far more players never make the top league than make it.

The “failure” rate and year’s in the system, at AFL level is probably little different to most other sports around the world, including RL.

 

[Thommo 42]

Its been noted by a QAFL club president in an earlier post, that a large % of academy kids leave the game after their academy experience ends. Completely lost to the game. (18-20yo) I blame the draft as it puts a 'best by' date on kids, which after their 18th year effectively ends the dream they are sold. Thommo doesnt see the draft as a problem, and cites other factors. You can take or leave my opinion, but Thommos observation is from someone who really cares about QLD footy, and is in the thick of it.

I played RL years ago for Cootamundra u18s. There was a kid (cant remember his name) who mostly couldnt make the team, or was on the bench and may get a few minutes at the games end. By 20yo he was selected for (mens) NSW country 1sts! That was when NSW country teams were competitive vs NSW city (NRL rep side)! and players who made that side were generally good enough to have a crack at the NRL. He didnt get much bigger, he just got good. Now, presuming Thommo is correct with the amount of talented academy kids who drop out after their 18th year, (academy should have the stats) then thats a lot of kids who may have been still a year or two from their talent maturing.

I don't know how you can possibly blame the draft or the draft system for an isolated issue with one academy?

More than 25 players 19 or older were drafted in the last 12 months.

There are 4 northern academies, only one of them has the issue of players giving up after their experience in that system. Some might turn a blind eye to that issue - if they were achieving their primary objective of identifying, developing and ultimately drafting talent - but they're not achieving that objective, with the collateral damage of removing talented kids from the game in SEQ, usually on a permanent basis.

We picked another 17 year old in our seniors for this weekend, kid is a gun. We have 8 other academy kids, including 3 in the Allies and this guy will play ahead of all of them (other than one who is playing in the National Academy side vs Collingwood VFL - another meaningless one off game, where he will play for his 3rd team in 3 weeks with another one to come, don't get me started...!) I doubt the academy knows this kids name, but he is better than 90% of the kids they have. If he goes well, as we expect he will - might be yet another phone call to let them in on the secret.

 

[Required]

I don't know how you can possibly blame the draft or the draft system for an isolated issue with one academy?

More than 25 players 19 or older were drafted in the last 12 months.

There are 4 northern academies, only one of them has the issue of players giving up after their experience in that system. Some might turn a blind eye to that issue - if they were achieving their primary objective of identifying, developing and ultimately drafting talent - but they're not achieving that objective, with the collateral damage of removing talented kids from the game in SEQ, usually on a permanent basis.

We picked another 17 year old in our seniors for this weekend, kid is a gun. We have 8 other academy kids, including 3 in the Allies and this guy will play ahead of all of them (other than one who is playing in the National Academy side vs Collingwood VFL - another meaningless one off game, where he will play for his 3rd team in 3 weeks with another one to come, don't get me started...!) I doubt the academy knows this kids name, but he is better than 90% of the kids they have. If he goes well, as we expect he will - might be yet another phone call to let them in on the secret.

I dont know if you can just say it isnt happening at other academies without offering some evidence. In any event, I doubt you will find any research. Its unlikely the AFL would release their own figures pointing to a failure of its own Draft policy.

The only way you know kids are leaving one particular academy is because you are in a geographical position to have witnessed it. Just because you havent witnessed it at the Suns or further south, doesnt mean it isnt happening.
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[briztoon]

I dont know if you can just say it isnt happening at other academies without offering some evidence. In any event, I doubt you will find any research. Its unlikely the AFL would release their own figures pointing to a failure of its own Draft policy.

The only way you know kids are leaving one particular academy is because you are in a geographical position to have witnessed it. Just because you havent witnessed it at the Suns or further south, doesnt mean it isnt happening.
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It’s not happening at the Suns. You just have to talk to the Suns members with academy kids on their board to hear that, and the GC QAFL club members in the QLD footy section, where you are also active.

 

[Required]

It’s not happening at the Suns. You just have to talk to the Suns members with academy kids on their board to hear that, and the GC QAFL club members in the QLD footy section, where you are also active.

So only the Lions academy are destroying 'love of footy' for kids. Ok, i'll go with that..

 

[Thommo 42]

I dont know if you can just say it isnt happening at other academies without offering some evidence. In any event, I doubt you will find any research. Its unlikely the AFL would release their own figures pointing to a failure of its own Draft policy.

The only way you know kids are leaving one particular academy is because you are in a geographical position to have witnessed it. Just because you havent witnessed it at the Suns or further south, doesnt mean it isnt happening.
.

I haven't provided any evidence relating the Lions either, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

Definitely doesn't happen at the Suns or Swans, I know for certain. I have little or no knowledge of GWS academy, but they do have a dodgy riverina zone, so I doubt they have any issues either.

 

[briztoon]

I haven't provided any evidence relating the Lions either, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

Definitely doesn't happen at the Suns or Swans, I know for certain. I have little or no knowledge of GWS academy, but they do have a dodgy riverina zone, so I doubt they have any issues either.

They lost the Riverina as part of their zone in 2017.

Those kids can still play for NSW and the Allies, but they’re not in the GWS academy anymore. That’s why we see them boarding in Vic and playing for NAB league teams now.

 

[nWo]

Speaking of Allies…..congrats to the boys who made it.

 

[Required]

Speaking of Allies…..congrats to the boys who made it.

Under Fletcher, Sherwood provided more 'Allies' than the entire Lions academy did..


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[Thommo 42]

Under Fletcher, Sherwood provided more 'Allies' than the entire Lions academy did..

One of them wasn't playing footy 12 months ago and wasn't even in the academy in Feb this year...

 

[Required]

One of them wasn't playing footy 12 months ago and wasn't even in the academy in Feb this year...

Just makes it even more amazing! Sherwood obviously supports its players. (not saying others dont)

 

[winged1]

Just makes it even more amazing! Sherwood obviously supports its players. (not saying others dont)

Stop sucking up ffs.

The first problem is in identifying players, south go watch morningside, north watch aspley and sc watch Maroochydore. It's just plain laziness.

The next problem is the club dont always take the academies suggestions. So in the women Starcevich is the coach, talent scout and list manager. But he put a kid through who posts pics of taking class a drugs with people in their car. Lots of due diligence going on there.

 

[Required]

Stop sucking up ffs.

The first problem is in identifying players, south go watch morningside, north watch aspley and sc watch Maroochydore. It's just plain laziness.

The next problem is the club dont always take the academies suggestions. So in the women Starcevich is the coach, talent scout and list manager. But he put a kid through who posts pics of taking class a drugs with people in their car. Lots of due diligence going on there.

I made an observation earlier that may be misconstrued to say Fletcher is running the academy. Which is not what i meant at all. So i softened it by also saying; 'Sherwood looks after its players', which is perhaps more accurate.

Hope this help you, oh, 'Droned1'..
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[briztoon]

I made an observation earlier that may be misconstrued to say Fletcher is running the academy. Which is not what i meant at all. So i softened it by also saying; 'Sherwood looks after its players', which is perhaps more accurate.

Hope this help you, oh, 'Droned1'..
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Why do you feel it’s necessary to insult people?

 

[Nunez]

Why do you feel it’s necessary to insult people?

There's a reason he's gone through several accounts on Big Footy.

 

[Required]

There's a reason he's gone through several accounts on Big Footy.

None of your buisness mate. You arent involved in this conversation. You've just come here to snipe. Add to the conversation or .... ... !

 

[Nunez]

None of your buisness mate. You arent involved in this conversation. You've just come here to snipe. Add to the conversation or .... ... !

Impossible to engage in a reasonable conversation with someone like you which has been clearly displayed throughout this board and on your several old accounts. Plenty of people here can have reasonable discussions without resulting to constant patronizing behaviour and insulting other posters simply for disagreeing with you.

 

[Required]

Impossible to engage in a reasonable conversation with someone like you which has been clearly displayed throughout this board and on your several old accounts. Plenty of people here can have reasonable discussions without resulting to constant patronizing behaviour and insulting other posters simply for disagreeing with you.

Rubbish. Youve come here to throw stones. Ive added plenty. You, zilch.

 

[Nunez]

Simply pointing out what we're all thinking bud.

 

[Nunez]

To clarify, you have a wealth of genuinely good insight that is worth discussing, but it's impossible to take you seriously when you insult and patronize posters as much as you do.

 

[briztoon]

What did he say that deserved rebuke?

I guess now, youve dobbed ..AGAIN...!

I haven’t dobbed to anyone.

I called you out for insulting another member unnecessarily.

 

[rusty08]

I haven’t dobbed to anyone.

I called you out for insulting another member unnecessarily.

In fairness, he was told by said poster to "stop sucking up ffs!"
Whether he was or wasn't, that type of comment wasn't really necessary imo. It just encourages....