Mike Sheahan has the right idea, let me know when its finally over. Its bullshit to hear and read about this whole sorry saga. The Herald -Sun has 8 pages today, who cares
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Good , then I won't have to see itSince this issue is not going to go away, I thought I'd take the opportunity to move these posts and leave the other thread to talk about footy.
The players were found not guilty due to a lack of evidence, due to Dank and or Essendon recording what they gave very irresponsibly and or incompetently. It's intellectually dishonest of Hird to claim that the players were comprehensively found to be not guilty of having been injected with TB4. The tribunal didn't consider that question because of the lack of evidence and recording in determining that it was indeed TB4 that Alavi received from Charter, compounded for Dank and then gave to Dank to use.
The bar set was so high by the tribunal that only a confession or someone breaking rank would of been needed to find them guilty.
Basically it was setup in a way the players were never going to be found guilty.
At least with CAS the decision will be absolutely final.
As much as I want to see drug cheating punished, I am not sure what evidence WADA can come up with that isn't already there, given it has now been over 2 years and circumstantial evidence will still make up a big part of their case in the absence of positive drug tests.
As much as I want to see drug cheating punished, I am not sure what evidence WADA can come up with that isn't already there, given it has now been over 2 years and circumstantial evidence will still make up a big part of their case in the absence of positive drug tests.
We're still just speculating though, without being in possession of all the facts it looks pretty bad, but even if you can answer the first two questions that were thrown out by ASADA (about the substances from China that Alavi was compounding and then gave to Dank), I don't know if they have enough evidence to get over the line on TB4. I still think there's a 50/50 chance they'll get off.
Does it really matter? We can guess who they are based on who was on the list at the time. I believe that only one player, can't remember his name, has confirmed that he refused to take the injections.Yeah I saw that, they named them but apparently they weren't supposed to. I wouldn't personally.
As much as I want to see drug cheating punished, I am not sure what evidence WADA can come up with that isn't already there, given it has now been over 2 years and circumstantial evidence will still make up a big part of their case in the absence of positive drug tests.
I agree. Essendon kept no record (or if they did they destroyed them), so proving what they took is a big issue.Basically if they can't compel Charter or Dank to give evidence then i can't see anything either.
I think they will still be found "not guilty" personally
I'm probably going to mess some of this up but here goes.
The discussion was revolving around Hird maintaining that the players were innocent, were proven "comprehensively" to have done nothing wrong by the AFL tribunal. Gerard pretty steadfastly said "well no, that's not right". Gerard refuted it pretty easily by saying something to the effect of "well, that question was never actually asked of the tribunal because the first two questions (regarding the substances from China that Alavi was compounding and then given to Dank) were thrown out because of a lack of evidence due to ridiculous record-keeping.
Hird countered with a pretty superficial and lazy "well, were they found guilty or not?", to which Gerard argued in a similar fashion to the above, ie. your club and Dank have been so duplicitous or incompetent that we don't have any records to find you guilty of. After this Hird backed off and said something to the effect of "oh well, I believe they will be found innocent again in the future".
On this topic, Gerard asked Hird how he can be so confident of Essendon's lack of wrongdoing when the records were so poorly kept. Hird suggested he had seen records of another drug (cannot remember its name, definitely not TB4) that was purchased and given to the players and did not see any records of TB4. Gerard maintained a pretty inquisitive tone regarding the lack of records kept by the club.
Gerard then moved on to how Hird, as a parent himself, would feel if his children could not be told by their football club what substance they were given. Hird batted this away by saying he was happy with it because the medical team that had spoken to the players had been confident that despite not knowing exactly what was given, there was no reason to think that something might go wrong with a player's health...despite these drugs not being allowed for human use at the time.
Finally, Gerard asked Hird if he believed he still felt, in light of all that has gone on, that he remains the right person to coach the club. Hird suggested that was for the players to decide and earlier today they told him that, indeed, they wanted him to coach them harder than every before from now on. He asked Hird if he had any "compunction" (which I had to look up, good word though) that prevented him from thinking he was the man for the job. Obviously, Hird said no he did not and that it wasn't about him. Of course it isn't.
All the while, Mark Robinson sat with his legs crossed, sucking on a lolipop, waiting for the adults to let him talk. When they did, he called Hird "Jim". That's about all he contributed.
Wow! Might return to 360 again. I turned it off as soon as Gerard completely turncoated and fully supportered Essendon after his AOD speech.
As for Robbo - the quicker the jettison that guy away from the media, the better.
David ZhaharakisDoes it really matter? We can guess who they are based on who was on the list at the time. I believe that only one player, can't remember his name, has confirmed that he refused to take the injections.