Autopsy Autopsy thread Dogs v Hawks

[GetDimmaBack]

Yeah I actually thought we got reamed by the umps in the first quarter but had the benefit of the whistle after that. Seemed like a bit of an over correction.

It was a shit standard in general though, especially for such a high quality match. Big game nerves maybe?

Fair point.

My wife can be an astute observer of footy at times. She said she'd never seen a game before where the umpires were so clearly noticeable.

I just said, "Razor Ray."

No other comment required, was there?

 

[In Repair]

Not sure if its been mentioned but i thought Picken was fantastic. Unheralded as always but such a terrier. He must be one of the worst players to play against, all over you like a wet rag

 

[Mattdougie]

I be just sat and watched a replay and it is apparent to me that we didn't dare to win at times on Sunday and I think it's the hawk "aura"" that is the main reason.

Plenty of times we had the ball through the middle and didn't give the handball option or play on as we did the two previous weeks.

Yes the Hawks may have pushed back but so did Freo and the saints and we still had a crack and kept daring to go.

Hopefully they learn from this and be braver next time

 

[Roddy]

Very impressed with Adams, is he the new Brian Lake? And if that's the case, can we have him in 5 or 6 years?

 

[maddog37]

Very impressed with Adams, is he the new Brian Lake? And if that's the case, can we have him in 5 or 6 years?

Too soon mate, too soon.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Lighten up maddog, it wasnt malicious or mean.

He does a few Lake like attributes, but dont think he'll ever be able to outmark the better forwards.

 

[dogwatch]

How Hawthorn Won
(sub-titled "How We Lost Despite Winning Just About Every Key Stat")

1st Quarter
Hawthorn were keen to make a statement and were up and about from the very first bounce. Pressure everywhere, especially on those players they identified as key movers and in-form ball carriers, like JJ. Our ball carriers were repeatedly forced to run back and wide and had less time to find an option and execute our delivery than we did in the first two rounds. We failed to adjust to this, although surely our brains trust would have seen it coming. In effect we had our fast-flowing game taken from us and we had to play on Hawthorn's terms - close, physical, contested football. We can play that style too, but I suspect we weren't ready mentally to make the adjustment. Hawthorn had a string of soft or dubious frees (at one stage it was 5-0 their way). Although these levelled out later in the game it helped give Hawthorn some momentum. We were lucky that they were uncharacteristically inaccurate and that we were only 14 points down at 1/4 time.
We also totally butchered a gimme goal in the first 30 seconds. As it turned out that would have been a very handy goal to have under our belt when the game got close 3 1/2 quarters later. Another "if only" moment (there were many of them) was when Roughy went off after getting a punch in the guts. While he was off his direct opponent, McEvoy, marked and goaled.

2nd Quarter
The rout continued. We were hoping Bev would have said enough at the break to turn things around but about 8 minutes in we were 5 goals to zip down. At that point my private thoughts were "We are clearly still only pretenders this year - let's hope we can at least get a respectable score from here." Then gradually it changed. McLean dobbed one from a set shot. Roughy anticipated a back pass and waltzed into an open goal ... we had the momentum. We were relishing the contest, winning more of the contested ball, playing with more confidence. Not quite sure how it happened but we steadily got on top in the middle. We fumbled less, perhaps getting used to the idea that we were going to have to cope with this higher level of pressure. All players lifted but Dahl and Daniel in particular were instrumental in it. We just lacked finishers.

3rd Quarter
Half-time thoughts: "This will be a cracker and a real test of where we are at. Expect Hawthorn to come out all guns blazing in the premiership quarter." But they didn't. We totally dominated them, kicking 6-3 to 2-2. As others have pointed out we smashed them in the key stats. We had kicked 10 out of the last 12 goals and only needed a steady performance in the last to win, with our 19 point buffer.

So what happened?

4th Quarter
There are some good insights scattered throughout this thread as to what happened. Clarkson knew they were down and almost out, unable to win if they stayed with the same game plan. They certainly came out firing. Here are some observations of what they did (some observations are mine and some from others here - they are reported from a Hawks viewpoint):

• Use our (Hawks) height and aerial skills to advantage: McEvoy, Ceglar, Gunston, Sicily (not tall but has a good leap and mark), Rioli (ditto) are all options. So don't probe for the perfect i50 opportunity. Kick it long ... and high if you have to.
• Make sure there's always at least one of the genuine talls down there for the mark or to get out the back for the pass across goal. The dogs have limited tall options to cover us.
• Block the interceptors, especially Adams, Morris and Murphy. (Losing Wood really hurt the WB IMO).
• Play at the edge of the rules, there's little to lose even if we give away the odd free kick, and if we can get a couple of goals out of it, it will be worth it. [This was where we saw the holding, scragging, blocking off the ball, blocking attempts to mark etc. It worked!]
• When the WB have had possession and players have pressed up the field, 1 or 2 players should run the other way into our F50. It's not a percentage play most of the time, but in this situation, what have we to lose? If we DO get the clearance it becomes an almost certain score. And anyway we have some classy players like Mitchell, Burgoyne, Birchall etc who can pull something special out of the bag, even though the WB will have the numbers around the pack. It also has the advantage of surprise over a well-drilled but inexperienced defence. [Murphy saw it happening, others didn't.]

There were some other bits of bad luck. After they got two early goals (no luck involved in that) they got some momentum and that would have created doubt and anxiety among our players. But the third goal came when a contested ball just popped up in the air from a midfield scrimmage and nearly went our way - we had the numbers and probably would have scored from a clearance but instead it dropped their way and Rioli goaled. Could easily have been a 2-goal swing right there.

The final minutes were all about experience vs inexperience and the lack of composure and presence of mind that comes with it: missed shots at goal, failure to bottle up the play, failure to see the Hawthorn players breaking forward etc. They didn't smash us in that quarter despite their dominance in the early minutes - 8 shots to 7 shots was pretty close. It's just that they kicked 7 goals with their 8 shots and we kicked only 3 from our 7 shots.

Some conclusions (leaving aside the matter of the terrible Murphy injury):

• Clarkson again demonstrates that he's a great all-round coach.
• No shame for Bev but he still has plenty to learn about match day tactics (as distinct from being very good at Plan A).
• Hawthorn's greater experience was decisive in the final quarter
• Hawthorn is good at working on the edge of the rules, sometimes over the edge, and gets away with it often enough to justify the tactic. The question is: is that what it takes to be the best? Do we really want to go down that path too, if we want to be feared by all? Maybe there's no choice...?
• The umpires weren't the difference. As I've said before, in a close game there are hundreds of small moments that could have swung the result (missed shots, lucky bounces, umpiring decisions, crucial fumbles, hit-the-posts, players temporarily unavailable due to blood rule, etc). Umpires are an easy target for disgruntled fans. Yes, they should be held to account but let's not get caught up in playing the victim. We could have made sure of the win off our own boot regardless of any borderline decisions. BTW, the final free kick count was 25-21 our way.
  
• We had some crucial outs (Dickson, Crameri - yes i know he's out for the whole season - and Wood) which probably had at least as big an impact on us as Hawthorn's celebrated outs (Hodge, Roughead, etc) had on them. I think we broke down up forward and the loss of Crameri and Dickson is really hurting us. I have already mentioned the impact of Wood being out.
• We need to get used to adapting our game for different situations as they evolve on match day. It'll come with more practice and experience. There were many times when sharing the ball around was the wrong option, even though it's what has made us such a scintillating side to watch. Sometimes you just have to back yourself and take the long kick or the shot at goal when the opponent's pressure is too great for the quick-hands game we like to play. Too often we missed out (i.e. no score or the ball was turned over) when we tried a dinky handpass over the top.
• We are definitely good enough to take it to ANY side in the league. It doesn't mean we're flag favourites but it means we are a realistic chance of making the GF this year. From there, anything is possible.
• We can get better - who'd have thought we'd take it right up to a firing Hawthorn with only modest performances at best from Stringer, Bontempelli, Macrae, Wallis and Libba?
• It was a great match to watch and a most important match for our boys to play in regardless of the result. We'll be better for it.

 

[MinerBoy]

I also expect some Hawks fan are actually scared of us, because when we do get better composure, we will beat them with no worries at all

Unless we fall right away I doubt anyone beats us 'no worries at all' but I agree with the comments that you guys had the better of the game and it was our cool headed composure and experience that was the deciding factor. It's a reason why Geelong had it over us for so many of those types of games where we seemingly outplayed them but somehow found ourselves marginally behind at the end.

 

[Mattdougie]

Very impressed with Adams, is he the new Brian Lake? And if that's the case, can we have him in 5 or 6 years?

Please take this the right way but go and f$ck yourself with a light post mate!!

You have had enough success p off for a while and let someone else have a crack or the league is destined to fail and become the EPL

 

[maddog37]

Lighten up maddog, it wasnt malicious or mean.

He does a few Lake like attributes, but dont think he'll ever be able to outmark the better forwards.

It was a joke. Obviously not a very good one....

 

[Fossie 32]

Please take this the right way but go and f$ck yourself with a light post mate!!

You have had enough success p off for a while and let someone else have a crack or the league is destined to fail and become the EPL

Don't hold back MD

 

[Fossie 32]

I be just sat and watched a replay and it is apparent to me that we didn't dare to win at times on Sunday and I think it's the hawk "aura"" that is the main reason.

Plenty of times we had the ball through the middle and didn't give the handball option or play on as we did the two previous weeks.

Yes the Hawks may have pushed back but so did Freo and the saints and we still had a crack and kept daring to go.

Hopefully they learn from this and be braver next time

Bit harsh as we were in front with only seconds to go but there may have been a bit of that to it

 

[Nath09]

Sorry to intrude. I honestly thought it was a bit lucky at the time too. But I just watched a replay of the final 2 minutes on the Hawks site and there are a couple of slo-mos of when Bob hurt his knee....

Bruest definitely did have his eyes on the ball. He was grappling with Bob and I think he thought he had a shot at the mark. Sicily just floated in from nowhere. It was made to look worse because poor Bob couldn't complete the contest.

There were many, many questionable decisions throughout the game and I think we did a little better out of them than you, but that one wasn't one of them.

Finally saw the replay and agree, no free kick there at all. Totally agree.

 

[Werewolf]

Toby McLean is a cheat

I can't stand how he ducks and lifts his arms

I have sh!t canned Selwood for it for years and will not be a hypocrite.

And "other blokes do it why shouldn't he" isn't an excuse and a pathetic response.

I've asked for the thoughts of Bay 13 on this matter

 

[compact72]

Unless we fall right away I doubt anyone beats us 'no worries at all' but I agree with the comments that you guys had the better of the game and it was our cool headed composure and experience that was the deciding factor. It's a reason why Geelong had it over us for so many of those types of games where we seemingly outplayed them but somehow found ourselves marginally behind at the end.

Perhaps my words were used differently compared to what I meant

Didn't mean so much by "scared of us" as you guys were up for the challenge, and knew we would put up a good fight, which would be no walk in the park (compared to Carlton)

Nobody does beat you 'no worries at all', but we would of been in a more comfortable position had we not missed the opportunities. I do agree, that it was the cool headed composure and experience that got you guys through. Hats off to you.

Lets not talk about Geelong, they are just a bunch of flogs

 

[compact72]

I've asked for the thoughts of Bay 13 on this matter

Bound to go well for you lol

 

[Roddy]

Please take this the right way but go and f$ck yourself with a light post mate!!

You have had enough success p off for a while and let someone else have a crack or the league is destined to fail and become the EPL

Very classy mate.

 

[compact72]

Also did anybody see Clarksons reaction when the siren went? Was like he won another grand final, so was a big win for them

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

dogwatch Very good analysis from the Hawthorn viewpoint and the fact we came so close tends to make me believe we have learned a heap about how to play the Hawks, Bob or no Bob. Pushing the rules by the Hawks is very well known but other sides seem to baulk at doing the same - this can't continue. People on here have been mealy-mouthed about McLean's so-called "ducking", but hey, THEY do it when it suits them. Have a look at CD's highlights vid, he tackles Mitchell who pulls his head down trying to move Caleb's arms up. (Yeah, we know Mitchell though, "Brownlow medallist" ) I don't want our boys to be known as "unsociable" (euphemism) but should we fight fire with fire?

 

[Fossie 32]

Yes top post dogwatch

 

[fargy]

I'm pretty sure the way it works is:
- They beat us by 70 last year
- They beat us by 3 this year
- We beat them by 64 in the qualifying final in September
- We beat them by 131 in the grand final in October

 

[dogwatch]

I'm pretty sure the way it works is:
- They beat us by 70 last year
- They beat us by 3 this year
- We beat them by 64 in the qualifying final in September
- We beat them by 131 in the grand final in October

Impeccable logic. Can't argue with that.

 

[Glorious couch life]

Fair point.

My wife can be an astute observer of footy at times. She said she'd never seen a game before where the umpires were so clearly noticeable.

I just said, "Razor Ray."

No other comment required, was there?

Such a great game was deserving of a better standard of umpiring than it got. Leaving that aside, you guys led most key stat indicators, and can rightfully claim to have been a deserving winner had the odd ball bounced differently.
Some old heads stood up for us when we were looking down the barrel.
Dogs are the real deal no doubt, and really enjoyable to watch too.
Rotten luck about Murphy. I hope he decides to go around next year. He seems to be getting better with age so I'm sure he'll be up to it.

 

[hard at it]

For mine the composure word expressed here sums it up.
Last years final wasted opportunitys down to Hunters missed handball late in the game same again with Stringer a couple of times on the weekend.
We will get there but in both cases we were playing quality so must make the most of our chances.
Frustrating !!!!

 

[immortalmike]

It was a joke. Obviously not a very good one....

Nope was entirely obvious to me. I laughed.