Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[black pup]

You have had many discussions with Macca? Did you voice your concerns to him, as forcefully as you express them here? Did he give you any explanations about the way he handles Jones, or anyone else? Did you call him a dud to his face and if not, why not?

What you or I think is not going to worry anybody, lighten up man this is free entertainment.

 

[immortalmike]

What you or I think is not going to worry anybody, lighten up man this is free entertainment.

So you're happy to snipe and try to cost a man his job under the cover of anonymity but when faced with the guy you won't say it to his face?
Forgive me if I no longer have any respect for your opinion as it seems you don't even believe it strong enough.
At least Mattdougie puts his balls on the line.

 

[Beasley]

The last Port Adelaide finals appearance before their current resurgence was in 2007. Port were in the bottom half of the ladder and rebuilding for four years before we began the rebuild process. Comparisons with Port are way too early. Hinkley has largely taken the existing Port list, hasn't had to make drastic changes but has coached it superbly. Macca on the other hand has had to contend with a team and list still on the way down which had yet to bottom out.

I think you missed the point though. Hinckley has taken Port up the ladder with attack and speed. Our bloke only seems to know dour "crack in" football to stop your competitor.

 

[Mutt]

I think you missed the point though. Hinckley has taken Port up the ladder with attack and speed. Our bloke only seems to know dour "crack in" football to stop your competitor.

No you missed the point - we are still re-assembling the list. A much more attacking game plan is not far away now. We won't get to there any more quickly than Port did though.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Sook

That showed him

 

[Beasley]

No you missed the point - we are still re-assembling the list. A much more attacking game plan is not far away now. We won't get to there any more quickly than Port did though.

How long is not far away. We have been waiting three years so far. Plus, our list is still without KPP players in attack and defence (an issues we have had for years), and our disposal is woeful ..... and has been throughout McCartneys reign.

Come on Mutt, he has had three years and we didn't defeat a team in the eight this year. We should expect better than what we saw this season.

 

[Mutt]

How long is not far away. We have been waiting three years so far. Plus, our list is still without KPP players in attack and defence (an issues we have had for years), and our disposal is woeful ..... and has been throughout McCartneys reign.

Come on Mutt, he has had three years and we didn't defeat a team in the eight this year. We should expect better than what we saw this season.

This thread is:

By the way - we defeated Richmond. They finished the year in the top 8. We also defeated Collingwood and Gold Coast and they were in the 8 when we played them. If you are going to get on here and pot the coach, at least you can do us all the courtesy of not making 'facts' up to suit your agenda.

 

[the dog's kennel]

You have had many discussions with Macca? Did you voice your concerns to him, as forcefully as you express them here? Did he give you any explanations about the way he handles Jones, or anyone else? Did you call him a dud to his face and if not, why not?

I'm not so interested in the "why didn't you call him a dud to his face?" or "why weren't you the same as you are on the internet?" type questions for blackpup. I don't see what is gained by being rude to Macca in the short period you have with him. As blackpup is an ex-player who has had valuable face time with Macca, I'm interested in the insights he gleaned from speaking to him. Presumably they are similar insights to what many of our current players would glean from speaking to Macca.

You seem pretty unimpressed with those conversations, blackpup. Can you provide more detail?

 

[fronkalicious]

The lack of balance in our list when he took over was staggering. And you don't fix the balance of your list by trading in a bunch of 23-27 year olds. You draft elite 18 year olds (which we've done since the Libba/wallis/dal draft) and you develop until you have a core group coming through together. We're still 2 years away IMO, but surely people can see this ?? I'm not saying we shouldn't be playing better footy and winning more games. We should be. And neither am
I saying mccatney is definitely the man to take us to our next finals tilt. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But he's our man for the next 2 years, and the rebuild is on schedule.

 

[Beasley]

FFS Mutt, no need to make it aggressive because people don't agree with your posts.

I didn't "pot" the coach ...... I questioned our development, disposal and lack of KPP after his three years at the helm. Plus I questioned your statement that success is not far away.

In regard to not beating teams that finished in the eight, I was correct with Collingwood and Gold Coast, but yes I forgot about Richmond ....... although, in my defence that only snuck in late.

Surely I am able to express an opinion or question the club without having arrows thrown.

 

[the dog's kennel]

I am curious at what point in Macca's tenure did you decide he was a dud?
I seem to remember someone calling the Coach of our Reserves team playing in today's grand final a dud after his first game. Or was it before?

C'mon, yebiga. How many times does blackpup have to deal with this b.s.?

He thought Maple was a dud then. He still thinks Maple is a dud. If Footscray wins today he will still think Maple is a dud. He is of the opinion that the Footscray list is the best in the VFL so anyone could coach it to victory. He would suggest they are winning in spite of Maple not because of it.

Now you may disagree with those evaluations (speaking for myself, I do). But don't throw out the same old "you thought Maple was a dud, and now we're in the GF! ZOMG!" rubbish that has been dealt with about 396 times in this thread before (like many arguments have, alas.)

 

[the dog's kennel]

In regard to not beating teams that finished in the eight, I was correct with Collingwood and Gold Coast, but yes I forgot about Richmond ....... although, in my defence that only snuck in late.

Surely I am able to express an opinion or question the club without having arrows thrown.

Yes, you should be able to express your opinion without having arrows thrown.

But to be fair, Richmond snuck into the 8 around the time that Collingwood dropped out of it. Which was only a week or two after Gold Coast dropped out of it.

So either you were wrong for most of the season, or you were wrong for the very end of the season. That isn't an arrow by the way. Just an observation!

 

[Beasley]

Yes, you should be able to express your opinion without having arrows thrown.

But to be fair, Richmond snuck into the 8 around the time that Collingwood dropped out of it. Which was only a week or two after Gold Coast dropped out of it.

So either you were wrong for most of the season, or you were wrong for the very end of the season. That isn't an arrow by the way. Just an observation!

Ultimately TDK, the point I was making is that our results for the season were not too flattering, barring the Collingwood win. No agenda, just stating my opinion.

 

[fargy]

A reminder the VFL game not far away from a start for those who may have forgotten in all this continual merry go round of the coach talk

 

[black pup]

Without going on, compare Macca and Ken Hinkley, and I think that say it all, Macca, defence mad, flood, puts blokes behind the ball, I seriously worry about our younger players, bulldogs have no attacking flair at all.
Hinkley, let's lose, but play the Port way, Brisbane Lions, they are in front of us, great year taking the game on, good to watch, GWS Leon Cameron taking the game on, good to watch, those teams are all teaching and developing, but none of that bullshit coming out of them.
My opinion, he is way out of his depth.

I'm not so interested in the "why didn't you call him a dud to his face?" or "why weren't you the same as you are on the internet?" type questions for blackpup. I don't see what is gained by being rude to Macca in the short period you have with him. As blackpup is an ex-player who has had valuable face time with Macca, I'm interested in the insights he gleaned from speaking to him. Presumably they are similar insights to what many of our current players would glean from speaking to Macca.

You seem pretty unimpressed with those conversations, blackpup. Can you provide more detail?

 

[black pup]

Looking forward to VFL GO DOGGIES.

 

[Mutt]

FFS Mutt, no need to make it aggressive because people don't agree with your posts.

I didn't "pot" the coach ...... I questioned our development, disposal and lack of KPP after his three years at the helm. Plus I questioned your statement that success is not far away.

In regard to not beating teams that finished in the eight, I was correct with Collingwood and Gold Coast, but yes I forgot about Richmond ....... although, in my defence that only snuck in late.

Surely I am able to express an opinion or question the club without having arrows thrown.

What do you mean aggressive - you were potting the coach and using 'facts' which are a complete fabrication. I pointed this out to you and suggested you do us a favour and not do this - it adds nothing to the debate. I didn't belittle you, or name call or any such thing.

I'm also entitled to have an opinion and to express it on here - it doesn't coincide with yours but that doesn't make me aggressive.

And as for throwing arrows - what do you think you and your mates are doing on here to the Coach - a guy who can't defend himself on here.

It seems to me that those who pot the Coach can resort to any tactics they like, including using untruths and name calling, but are the first to whinge when anyone stands up to them.

If you think I was out of line with my post then report me to the Moderators, or alternatively, debate the issues without squealing when you are called out for talking s**t.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Without going on, compare Macca and Ken Hinkley, and I think that say it all, Macca, defence mad, flood, puts blokes behind the ball, I seriously worry about our younger players, bulldogs have no attacking flair at all.
Hinkley, let's lose, but play the Port way, Brisbane Lions, they are in front of us, great year taking the game on, good to watch, GWS Leon Cameron taking the game on, good to watch, those teams are all teaching and developing, but none of that bullshit coming out of them.
My opinion, he is way out of his depth.

Sorry - I meant could you provide some detail about your conversations with Macca. What impression did he give you on a person-to-person level? Did he say anything that you found either particularly inspirational or unimpressive? Did he answer questions directly? Did he sound like a snake oil salesman? Did he seem out of his depth? If you were a player having that conversation with him, how would you feel about him being your coach? That kind of thing.

it just strikes me that most of us wildly speculate about Macca's effect on the players. But you are an actual ex-player who has talked to him. So I think we should be getting more info out of you!

 

[AJARWA]

What do you mean aggressive - you were potting the coach and using 'facts' which are a complete fabrication. I pointed this out to you and suggested you do us a favour and not do this - it adds nothing to the debate. I didn't belittle you, or name call or any such thing.

I'm also entitled to have an opinion and to express it on here - it doesn't coincide with yours but that doesn't make me aggressive.

And as for throwing arrows - what do you think you and your mates are doing on here to the Coach - a guy who can't defend himself on here.

It seems to me that those who pot the Coach can resort to any tactics they like, including using untruths and name calling, but are the first to whinge when anyone stands up to them.

If you think I was out of line with my post then report me to the Moderators, or alternatively, debate the issues without squealing when you are called out for talking s**t.

wow. surely you guys have got something better do with your lives.

 

[Mutt]

wow. surely you guys have got something better do with your lives.

 

[_Mike_]

Thread administratively closed for 24 hours.... Go drink a beer or few and enjoy the fact that we've just won a VFL flag in our first year back as Footscray...

 

[_Mike_]

A reminder.

There has been a lot of personal abuse going on lately. This will not be tolerated. If you disagree with someones opinion, discuss it, don't abuse them.

NO personal abuse is allowed. Do not play the man.

 

[Guido]

I remember Cameron Ling in early 2012, with Hinkley still not having been hired, saying something along the lines of (and I am paraphrasing) "No disrespect to McCartney or Sanderson, but in my mind Hinkley was the guy I would have hired first".

You also have one of the best administrations in the game, headed by Cook and Balme, making it clear that McCartney was not invited to apply for the Geelong coaching position, but Ken Hinkley was.

These are all people who knew these candidates better than anyone, not people making judgements based on 10 hours of interviews.

Yes, Port had the extra time down the ladder, but that doesn't change the fact that they were still quite a rabble at the end of 2012. If it was seen as a super young list brimming with talent and simply a matter of time before they rose up, some great coaches would have been knocking that door down for that job - but they weren't, Port were begging coaches to interview and they were being turned down (even by the likes of Ratten, Leon Cameron declined a 5 year contract to be Port's head coach to be an assistant coach at GWS).

That turnaround has been nothing short of phenomenal, and not in a hundred shots at it could I have seen McCartney having achieved the same results (in the space of 22 months taking them from rabble to within a kick of a Grand Final). Nor do I reckon Hinkley would have coached us to 30% win/loss and three consecutive bottom 5 finishes - we had a very disjointed list and all that, that's 100% accurate, but so is the fact that some coaches are better than others.

A premiership coach needs to be among the top half dozen coaches in the country - maybe in a few years he'll make me eat my words, but right now nothing is convincing me that McCartney's up there in that group. But as long as there no mass walkouts and as long as he doesn't go stupid at the trade table with desperate reaches to try save himself, I want McCartney there next year.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

.

Great post.

 

[MJ_Dogs]

I remember Cameron Ling in early 2012, with Hinkley still not having been hired, saying something along the lines of (and I am paraphrasing) "No disrespect to McCartney or Sanderson, but in my mind Hinkley was the guy I would have hired first".

You also have one of the best administrations in the game, headed by Cook and Balme, making it clear that McCartney was not invited to apply for the Geelong coaching position, but Ken Hinkley was.

These are all people who knew these candidates better than anyone, not people making judgements based on 10 hours of interviews.

Yes, Port had the extra time down the ladder, but that doesn't change the fact that they were still quite a rabble at the end of 2012. If it was seen as a super young list brimming with talent and simply a matter of time before they rose up, some great coaches would have been knocking that door down for that job - but they weren't, Port were begging coaches to interview and they were being turned down (even by the likes of Ratten, Leon Cameron declined a 5 year contract to be Port's head coach to be an assistant coach at GWS).

That turnaround has been nothing short of phenomenal, and not in a hundred shots at it could I have seen McCartney having achieved the same results (in the space of 22 months taking them from rabble to within a kick of a Grand Final). Nor do I reckon Hinkley would have coached us to 30% win/loss and three consecutive bottom 5 finishes - we had a very disjointed list and all that, that's 100% accurate, but so is the fact that some coaches are better than others.

A premiership coach needs to be among the top half dozen coaches in the country - maybe in a few years he'll make me eat my words, but right now nothing is convincing me that McCartney's up there in that group. But as long as there no mass walkouts and as long as he doesn't go stupid at the trade table with desperate reaches to try save himself, I want McCartney there next year.

Would find that hard to believe. Ling has massive wraps for Macca as does Tom Harley and a number of the Geelong blokes.