Mega Thread Anti doping Tribunal Hearings - Verdict to be delivered March 31st, 2pm, Docklands. Closed hearing

[neutralguy]

Dear Santa my Christmas wish is thus:

The Tribunal Finds Dank guilty of all charges, this has a knock on effect that players are then found guilty of taking TB4 (and banned for the full 2 years).
The day the bans are announced Hird (and Reid bomber et all) is issued with his SCN (thus continuing the disruption for some time).
Once Hird has been found guilty and banned, the players then embark on a campaign to sue EFC/Dank/AFL (thus ensuring this drags EFC through the mud for a longer period.
Of course if EFC/Hird/Dank had of all been open and honest from the start I wouldn't wish the above on them.

 

[SBYM]

notsoneutralguy

Amirite?

 

[neutralguy]

notsoneutralguy

Amirite?

Just a man with a dream

 

[blackshadow]

I'd feel too, Dank is on other charges, trafficking and other substances.

I'd be unsure if they could nail individual players in that case. Even if they found him guilty of administering Tb4 (and that would look ugly for Essendon, I'd still feel they would have to prove which players he administered it too

Considering Dank has multiple substances to his name, and other charges, OI am not sure they would marry up all that well.

I wouldn't argue with too much of that.

The only qualification to that would involve the tribunal finding that Dank administered TB4. If that is one of their findings AND the players (all 34) have signed consents to Thymosin AND the tribunal is satisfied that TB4 is the most likely or only form of Thymosin that was present at EFC, then I'd say the players will go almost by default.

There are a few conditions to be met for that to happen obviously and I have no idea what evidence ASADA can lead in relation to TB4, either in relation to Dank or EFC but I see that as a clear possibility based on the little that is in the public arena. As to the odds of that? Heck, flip a coin or two!

I'm pretty much in agreement with both these quotes.

If Dank goes for administering TB4 to Essendon players it's going to be much harder for players to disprove ASADA's case.

 

[van peebles]

I'd feel too, Dank is on other charges, trafficking and other substances.

I'd be unsure if they could nail individual players in that case. Even if they found him guilty of administering Tb4 (and that would look ugly for Essendon, I'd still feel they would have to prove which players he administered it too

Considering Dank has multiple substances to his name, and other charges, OI am not sure they would marry up all that well.

I wouldn't argue with too much of that.

The only qualification to that would involve the tribunal finding that Dank administered TB4. If that is one of their findings AND the players (all 34) have signed consents to Thymosin AND the tribunal is satisfied that TB4 is the most likely or only form of Thymosin that was present at EFC, then I'd say the players will go almost by default.

There are a few conditions to be met for that to happen obviously and I have no idea what evidence ASADA can lead in relation to TB4, either in relation to Dank or EFC but I see that as a clear possibility based on the little that is in the public arena. As to the odds of that? Heck, flip a coin or two!

Do you think its going to be proven tb4 was "on site" now?
Because once thats accepted its all over.

 

[DonsRule]

Do you think its going to be proven tb4 was "on site" now?
Because once thats accepted its all over.

It's another big step, not sure it is al over, they would still have to prove it went to players IMO. But, it was be a tred very carefully step. I don't believe onsite would be enough. based on what I've seen discussed on the French Vs ASADAcase

 

[imperial_oz]

Do you think its going to be proven tb4 was "on site" now?
Because once thats accepted its all over.

I think that is going to be difficult based on what I know of in the public arena.

The people best placed to answer that are Dank, Charter and Alavi but especially Dank.

All have their own reasons for not committing themselves to anything where they can be held accountable. Witness Alavi in today's article by Chip. He says a lot of stuff about what he doesn't want to say but will not commit to any version of what he does want to say.

He's in a spot of bother depending on which way he jumps. If he prepared TB4 for a Dank doping program, he's in trouble for that. If he prepared injectable materials without actually knowing what it was including concentrations and makeup then he's in trouble for that. Either way his licence to operate may be jeopardy but for different reasons, so he has to avoid committing to anything.

Charter and Dank are in similar positions so I wouldn't expect any assistance from either of them.

Next best place to get valid data is there business and lab records. Does ASADA have anything? No idea but I think not having access to the 'best' source of evidence makes their job much harder.

Edit:

Another thought. If ASADA recorded the interview where he allegedly said he thought it was TB4 then his protestations this morning will look pretty sad. Not that he is a particularly credible witness in my view.

 

[compact72]

I think Alvi is extermely scared, which explains why he went with the story that Dank took the peptides and ran.

If he claims that he doesn't know what was produced and gave to dank, he would perhaps loose a ton of clients

 

[blackshadow]

I think Alvi is extermely scared, which explains why he went with the story that Dank took the peptides and ran.

If he claims that he doesn't know what was produced and gave to dank, he would perhaps loose a ton of clients

My take on Alavi is that he doesn't want to say anything to ASADA if he doesn't have to as he's under investigation from other authorities and is s**t scared anything he says could be used to either revoke his license or something more serious.

Charter is in a similar predicament.

 

[Gigantor]

I think Alvi is extermely scared, which explains why he went with the story that Dank took the peptides and ran.

If he claims that he doesn't know what was produced and gave to dank, he would perhaps loose a ton of clients

Alvi had a hit single with "My Coo Ca Choo" in the 70s.

 

[Armchair Critic]

It's another big step, not sure it is al over, they would still have to prove it went to players IMO. But, it was be a tred very carefully step. I don't believe onsite would be enough. based on what I've seen discussed on the French Vs ASADAcase

Did French sign consent forms to receive injections and Admit he received any injections

 

[DonsRule]

Did French sign consent forms to receive injections and Admit he received any injections

I can't recall. (Okay, no)

But it still shows the level ASADA have to get to to be satisfied in front of CAS

 

[Armchair Critic]

I can't recall. (Okay, no)

But it still shows the level ASADA have to get to to be satisfied in front of CAS

Everyone knows the level ASADA have to get to. The evidence available in the public gets them to that level comfortably IMHO. Whether Essendon can counter that evidence is the question that needs to be answered.

 

[DonsRule]

Everyone knows the level ASADA have to get to. The evidence available in the public gets them to that level comfortably IMHO. Whether Essendon can counter that evidence is the question that needs to be answered.

Likewise, I've had some lawyers doubt it can reach that level,

I don't think a lot truely understand comfortable satisfaction. The French case they got to banned substances being in is room

Every case is different, I accept. But I don't think many try to view the details. - And that one isn;t aimed at you by any means.

 

[Hens Hall]

It's another big step, not sure it is al over, they would still have to prove it went to players IMO. But, it was be a tred very carefully step. I don't believe onsite would be enough. based on what I've seen discussed on the French Vs ASADAcase

Not sure about this.

Had a chat to a legal work colleague and the way he looks at it is if ASADA can prove, to comfortable satisfaction, that TB4 was onsite the burden of proof would pass on to Essendon to prove that it wasn't for the players .

Given the consent forms and the fact they haven't as yet provided confirmation on what was injected it puts Essendon in a lot of trouble.

Obviously ASADA need to get to that point initially but once they do it could be game over.

 

[Tiger2709]

Can someone please explain to this bloke what "opening submissions" mean.

It would be futile to even try.

Oh no here we go again the superior Essendon supporter line, give it a break and stop trying to pretend you all are more intelligent than the next person, it isn't impressive, quite the opposite really.

 

[Tiger2709]

Alvi had a hit single with "My Coo Ca Choo" in the 70s.

You mean Alvin as in Alvin Stardust don't you?

 

[Armchair Critic]

Likewise, I've had some lawyers doubt it can reach that level,

I don't think a lot truely understand comfortable satisfaction. The French case they got to banned substances being in is room

Every case is different, I accept. But I don't think many try to view the details. - And that one isn;t aimed at you by any means.

I don't think a lot really understand circumstantial evidence.

 

[DonsRule]

I don't think a lot really understand circumstantial evidence.

Agree I just don't think this case is as easy as either side tries and makes out.

 

[Tiger2709]

I think most of us would agree with you.

But - if it's truly just about Dank - what is the point of putting the 34 players through hell the past two years? Or even pretending the past few weeks that they actually have a case against the 34 players.

If Dank gets done then the likelihood is the players were given banned substances, one of those players has a Brownlow around his neck for being the fairest and the best, doesn't seem right or fair if Dank injected him with banned substances that he had signed for does it?

 

[compact72]

Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 3m3 minutes ago
AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal had 3rd day hearing today of past,present Essendon players &former employee who have been issued Infraction Notices

Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 2m2 minutes ago
Mr Holmes QC continued his submissions on behalf of ASADA. He will continue to detail evidence in ASADA case when hearing resumes on Jan 12.


Shocked to be informed that the tribunal is going ahead, the players lawyers made it real clear there it would get dismissed

However, not much news today

 

[Pie eyed]

They didn't say they would spend the next three days outlining their case. It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to work out the three days available for them to actually present their outine would be three sitting days. I know what day it is...day two of the hearing.

Don't know how you can question somebody's credibility in evaluating the evidence when you make such strange judgements. You might want to get a dictionary and look up day and date. They're not the same thing (hint, hint)

Oh and your use of the word valid is at odds with the dictionary as well. Something else you can look up.

I simply asked if anyone who was aware what was actually going on had heard anything which was not already in the public arena.
That is pretty clear if you read my post.
Since yourself and Jenny are at pains to discuss anything but semantics of my post I assume, in the absence of any actual reply to my question, that not a ******* single thing has actually happened we were not already well and truly aware of a year ago.
ASADA are still going with the "we got wind of a vibe" prosecution.
But anyway thanks for you reply.

 

[Armchair Critic]

I simply asked if anyone who was aware what was actually going on had heard anything which was not already in the public arena.
That is pretty clear if you read my post.
Since yourself and Jenny are at pains to discuss anything but semantics of my post I assume, in the absence of any actual reply to my question, that not a ******* single thing has actually happened we were not already well and truly aware of a year ago.
ASADA are still going with the "we got wind of a vibe" prosecution.
But anyway thanks for you reply.

I was talking about the extra substance only a day before it came out.There is still one more substance too but that was only most likely not definitive

 

[Cronos]

Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 3m3 minutes ago
AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal had 3rd day hearing today of past,present Essendon players &former employee who have been issued Infraction Notices

Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 2m2 minutes ago
Mr Holmes QC continued his submissions on behalf of ASADA. He will continue to detail evidence in ASADA case when hearing resumes on Jan 12.


Shocked to be informed that the tribunal is going ahead, the players lawyers made it real clear there it would get dismissed

However, not much news today

You mean after three days, it still hasn't been thrown out?!? That's more than five minutes isn't it?

I'm shocked and disillusioned.

 

[Thrawn]

So ASADA is going onto day 4 of an opening submission hey? Must the the best long-winded lawyer in the world if he's going for that long when ASADA don't have anything.