Opinion Do the Brisbane Lions really have an MCG hoodoo?

[Corn Cobbers]

Definitely have a "home and away" MCG hoodoo, a really bad one

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[Tarkyn_24]

incredible insights

the afl is already very profitable and i dont see how brisbane playing more MCG games than marvel ones would impact their finances. considering carlton v brisbane and collingwood v brisbane both at docklands in 2024 were sellouts i daresay more could have been gained by having at least those two games in particular at the mcg

that would also go a good way to making your second point redundant which to be frank is just a stupid one to begin with. if that was a basis for mcg access melbourne would have been sent to docklands years ago and been replaced as a tenant by essendon.

ive seen your other posts on this forum and i guarantee whatever else you say wont be worth my time, so dont bother replying further

The issue is we have a required number of games we must play at Marvel, and capacity does become an issue for us. As I understand we tried to shift the game to the MCG in exchange for the Dockers one but the AFL understandably blocked it.

Where the choice is hosting an interstate side at the G vs hosting a Melbourne based side, our preference is always going to be to maximise attendance. Sure, Brissy at the G probably gets a better crowd than Freo or GWS, but at the same time access is also an issue for those other interstate sides.

Ideally, we don’t play at Docklands at all and you get certain access in away games v us, but the AFL ownership of Marvel means that just won’t happen.

 

[caloschwaby]

Hoodoo
noun
A run of bad luck associated with a particular person, group or activity.

• R16, 2015 - Demons (15th) def. Lions (18th) @ MCG by 24 points
• R9, 2016 - Demons (9th) def. Lions (16th) @ MCG by 63 points
• R14, 2016 - Tigers (13th) def. Lions (17th) @ MCG by 42 points
• R10, 2017 - Magpies (13th) def. Lions (18th) @ MCG by 45 points
• R22, 2017 - Demons (7th) def. Lions (18th) @ MCG by 13 points
• R4, 2018 - Tigers (9th) def. Lions (17th) @ MCG by 93 points
• R4, 2019 - Bombers (15th) def. Lions (2nd) @ MCG by 47 points
• R23, 2019 - Tigers (4th) def. Lions (1st) @ MCG by 27 points
• R1, 2020 - Hawks (9th) def. Lions (2nd) @ MCG by 28 points
• R15, 2022 - Demons (2nd) def. Lions (1st) @ MCG by 64 points
• R20, 2022 - Tigers (9th) def. Lions (3rd) @ MCG by 7 points
• SF, 2022 - Lions (6th) def. Demons (2nd) @ MCG by 13 points
• PF, 2022 - Cats (1st) def. Lions (6th) @ MCG by 71 points
• R13, 2023 - Hawks (16th) def. Lions (4th) @ MCG by 25 points
• R18, 2023 - Demons (4th) def. Lions (3rd) @ MCG by 1 point
• GF, 2023 - Magpies (1st) def. Lions (2nd) @ MCG by 4 points

What do you think? Is the hoodoo real? 16 games at the MCG against six separate opponents and just one win in the last decade. It should be pointed out that Brisbane was the higher ranked team in seven of those 15 losses. 2024 marks the 10th year since this run began and the Lions are currently scheduled to play at the MCG twice this year against the Dees in round 5 and the Pies in round 23.

Comparing their record recently at Marvel (post-Neale trade we'll say 2019 onwards being the start of the current Lions) it's certainly interesting how much it inverses with the MCG record.

They should certainly advocate to play at the MCG whenever playing MCG-tenants in Melbourne with the remnant Fitzroy fanbase certainly enough to justify it (how we play the Suns at the G most years I'll never know), playing us at Marvel last year was such a dumb fixture by the AFL for so many reasons, and may have hindered them in the long run.

 

[Doc1763]

View attachment 1913403

Comparing their record recently at Marvel (post-Neale trade we'll say 2019 onwards being the start of the current Lions) it's certainly interesting how much it inverses with the MCG record.

They should certainly advocate to play at the MCG whenever playing MCG-tenants in Melbourne with the remnant Fitzroy fanbase certainly enough to justify it (how we play the Suns at the G most years I'll never know), playing us at Marvel last year was such a dumb fixture by the AFL for so many reasons, and may have hindered them in the long run.

Yeah, a game that Moore, Naicos, De Goey & Hill didn't play in. Yet they celebrated like they won the flgg. Oh well......

 

[caloschwaby]

Yeah, a game that Moore, Naicos, De Goey & Hill didn't play in. Yet they celebrated like they won the flgg. Oh well......

Certainly the outs were decent, but at the time I was concerned we'd learnt nothing from the last game against them. Cameron was completely unaccounted for all night and the amount of out the back goals was just hair-pulling stuff. Still don't think we exactly nailed that down enough in the GF but I guess that's just history now

 

[Freomaniac]

Can't play the MCG

They have an MCG Hill-doo

I call bulls**t.

I remember back in the middle of 2001, Brisbane were 6-5 after 11 games.

They also had a horrible MCG record too back in 2001. It was like 5 wins at the MCG out of 35 between 1987-2000.

Brisbane went Undefeated in the 2nd half of the 2001 season after losing 127-122 vs the crows in the Gabba. Some noticable away wins was Collingwood at the MCG and Cats in Geelong.

But mind you, that 1999-2004 Brisbane side was strong.

 

[demondavey]

Playing well means nothing. All that matters is winning. And they haven't been able to do that at The G bar one time.


Perfectly valid question and it stands. There's a massive Hex on The Lions at The G and they need to win the Prem. Simple as that.

If anything this just highlights how unfair it is having the GF at the MCG. When a team with a poor record at the G (most non vic teams would have them against vic teams) has to play the the GF there against a tenant team, it’s seriously unfair.

The only way to mitigate this is to have more games at the MCG for non vic sides. If you’re a team like Brisbane and have been continually top 4 for a while then you need to 5-6 away games at the G; Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Hawthorn, Melbourne. They should be in the second half of the fixture as well.

 

[demondavey]

Terrible insights. What's the capacity of docklands compared to the G again? Can you remind me??

Aha! That would be why they will schedule Lions games at Docklands wouldn't it!...You've just nicely argued my points...

The AFL likes big crowds at the G and will schedule whatever game it thinks will give it the least amount of empty seats.

Melbourne pull in big crowds at the G mate! Surprised you don't realise.

And finally...
Bombers play their big home games at the G. They play their low crowd games, like against Brisbane, at Docklands yeah . Can you figure out why yet?

I get your point, but unfortunately we are in a position where everything is totally monetised more than ever with tv rights and viewing figures being the yardstick of commercial performance.

These points you raise totally disadvantage non Victorian sides who need MCG exposure. Until they play more at the G they’ll struggle. All non vic sides will struggle there.

 

[Cuzz09]

like Eagles in the 00s we never looked great at the G and until we actually won a flag in that period no one thought we could break the hoodoo.

Brissy just have to win on that 1 day, simple as that.

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[Cuzz09]

Pies should've won last year's GF by 4 goals+ Innacuracy kept Lions in it.

Like Eagles in 2018, dominant in the 4th qtr but kept kicking points

Close margins at the end make it look different

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[Cyclops]

I don't think Brisbane has a hoodoo they have a stupid schedule that maximises money over fairness.

If anything this just highlights how unfair it is having the GF at the MCG. When a team with a poor record at the G (most non vic teams would have them against vic teams) has to play the the GF there against a tenant team, it’s seriously unfair.

The only way to mitigate this is to have more games at the MCG for non vic sides. If you’re a team like Brisbane and have been continually top 4 for a while then you need to 5-6 away games at the G; Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Hawthorn, Melbourne. They should be in the second half of the fixture as well.

Couldn't agree more. We're a national comp, pinning the Grand Final to a single venue is simply unfair.

There's logistical issues like suitable stadia in Adelaide, Brisbane and Perth, IMHO they should be 60K, ideally 80K venues, and tjhis should be a priority.

The three big issues of unfairness have been race, women and #VICBIAS. There's a been small improvements on racism, Do Better (Pies have a lot more to do) and few other little moves, more is needed (especially this ****show at Hawthorn).

The women's comp is up and running, the government just told the AFL "you get loads of public funds, you have to share it between men and women" and it happened. Once again plenty more to be done but it's a credit to the clubs they took it on and have made it work so far, and the AFL hasn't stuffed it up (yet). The money threat worked with the women, the Government should think about using it to make the league work on racism too.

#VICBIAS remains, almost untreated. The MCG deal was done by a Vic Premier to win votes in Victoria, and screw the rest. The League can't see past their cuff links, stupid private school inbreds with fake tans and whitened teeth.

 

[demondavey]

I don't think Brisbane has a hoodoo they have a stupid schedule that maximises money over fairness.


Couldn't agree more. We're a national comp, pinning the Grand Final to a single venue is simply unfair.

There's logistical issues like suitable stadia in Adelaide, Brisbane and Perth, IMHO they should be 60K, ideally 80K venues, and tjhis should be a priority.

The three big issues of unfairness have been race, women and #VICBIAS. There's a been small improvements on racism, Do Better (Pies have a lot more to do) and few other little moves, more is needed (especially this ****show at Hawthorn).

The women's comp is up and running, the government just told the AFL "you get loads of public funds, you have to share it between men and women" and it happened. Once again plenty more to be done but it's a credit to the clubs they took it on and have made it work so far, and the AFL hasn't stuffed it up (yet). The money threat worked with the women, the Government should think about using it to make the league work on racism too.

#VICBIAS remains, almost untreated. The MCG deal was done by a Vic Premier to win votes in Victoria, and screw the rest. The League can't see past their cuff links, stupid private school inbreds with fake tans and whitened teeth.

Are you sure you go for Collingwood?

 

[Cyclops]

Are you sure you go for Collingwood?

Give us Petracca.

 

[M Malice]

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I get your point, but unfortunately we are in a position where everything is totally monetised more than ever with tv rights and viewing figures being the yardstick of commercial performance.

These points you raise totally disadvantage non Victorian sides who need MCG exposure. Until they play more at the G they’ll struggle. All non vic sides will struggle there.

I don't think Brisbane potentially being slightly disadvantaged on grand final days is ever going to be the AFLs priority for fixturing over the other issues at stake. Not should it be.

I also don't remember this conversation happening after the Lions 2001-4 exploits. They seemed to play the G just fine back then.

Shame the AFL pulled down Waverley isn't it!

By the same logic, Brisbane have a home ground and home final advantage that helps them get to grand finals in the first place. Because other teams only play the Gabba at most once a year. So that kinda evens it out I think.

 

[VinnieB]

not sure why youre going back to 2015 when the brisbane team that exists now can largely trace its existence to the finals breakthrough of 2019 when trading in lyons / neale and since then adding core players like daniher and dunkley

as a supporter i thought we played the mcg quite wel against melbourne and collingwood and the games could have gone either way in 2023. hawks are our bogie team more than anything

its a fixturing joke that the lions have been continually denied more MCG exposure whilst being a dominant team with a substantial victorian fanbase over the last 5 years. COVID aside there really are no excuses as to why the AFL has been so reticent to give the lions more games there.

Totally agree with the fixturing. Why the AFL didn’t have (or allow) our round 23 game to be played at the MCG rather than Marvel was silly. Particularly when the Pies had been fixtured to play Freo at the MCG a few rounds earlier.

 

[Cyclops]

Totally agree with the fixturing. Why the AFL didn’t have (or allow) our round 23 game to be played at the MCG rather than Marvel was silly. Particularly when the Pies had been fixtured to play Freo at the MCG a few rounds earlier.

It was egregious, Brisbane deserved a shot at he G vs a likely final opponent. That's not hindsight, that was two top 4 sides. It was a dumb unfair decision that hurt Brisbane's chances, although they made the best of it with a difficult win albeit vs a wounded Collingwood.

The smaller ground was no advantage to us, paradoxically, we play Docklands horribly, and seem to cop more injuries there than any other ground IIRC.

I think Brisbane would happily trade the 4 points at docklands for a shot at a daytime slot at the G.

 

[VinnieB]

I get your point, but unfortunately we are in a position where everything is totally monetised more than ever with tv rights and viewing figures being the yardstick of commercial performance.

These points you raise totally disadvantage non Victorian sides who need MCG exposure. Until they play more at the G they’ll struggle. All non vic sides will struggle there.

Why don’t interstate teams request to play 2 home games at the MCG?

Interstate teams like the Lions have a huge advantage during the H&A season. 11 games in a home stadium no other club plays at. No wonder they are almost unbeatable there. Why not play 2 of those games at the MCG for their Fitzroy supporters? Gives them more MCG exposure if that’s what they want.

 

[demondavey]

Why don’t interstate teams request to play 2 home games at the MCG?

Interstate teams like the Lions have a huge advantage during the H&A season. 11 games in a home stadium no other club plays at. No wonder they are almost unbeatable there. Why not play 2 of those games at the MCG for their Fitzroy supporters? Gives them more MCG exposure if that’s what they want.

I don’t disagree. Unfortunately that doesn’t give them an advantage come GF day though. I reckon they should get a run of games in the last 10 at the G. Pile up Gabba games in the first 12 and then get moving to the G. Play the big teams, the Victorian teams, coming into the last block. They run the risk of losing if course, but they get so much more exposure.

Let’s face it, Collingwood didn’t kick well in the GF last year. It was a good 4-5 goal margin.

 

[demondavey]

I don't think Brisbane potentially being slightly disadvantaged on grand final days is ever going to be the AFLs priority for fixturing over the other issues at stake. Not should it be.

I also don't remember this conversation happening after the Lions 2001-4 exploits. They seemed to play the G just fine back then.

Shame the AFL pulled down Waverley isn't it!

By the same logic, Brisbane have a home ground and home final advantage that helps them get to grand finals in the first place. Because other teams only play the Gabba at most once a year. So that kinda evens it out I think.

The game was a lot different 20 years ago. Brisbane had cap concessions didn’t they to keep their list together? Unfortunately the data of the last 17 years shows 8/10 Victorian teams beating non vic teams on GF day. Were Hawthorn and Richmond that much better?

Interstate sides do have home games, yes, but so do Victorian sides. Heaps. It doesn’t even it out at all. The obviously alternative is to have non Victorian sides request more games at the G, it benefits Victorian sides so you can’t worry about that, or put the GF at a neutral venue and minimise supporter tickets because they want the corporate revenue.

Bar the G, what ground has the biggest capacity?

 

[Makeshft_Mauler]

its a bit of a catch 22 right

there are only 4 MCG tennants (collingwood, melbourne, richmond, Hawthorn) plus the pseudo tenannts of carlton and Essendon

all of these teams since 2019 barring hawthorn have had periods of being a top 8 teams, hell melbourne, richmond and collignwood have won 4 of the last 5 flags, and have finished top 4 8 times,

so playing these teams at the mcg would 100% benefit brisbane winning the grand final, but i guess the question is, would it also hurt their chances of finishing top 2 because they are much more likely to lose to collignwood at the mcg than at the gabba.

and top 2 is really where an interstate team needs to finish in order to give themselves the best chance when a bunch of the mcg tennants are also getting home finals as its far easier for those teams to get a clean home game run to the flag

so unless brisbane was able to engineer a schedule where they played double up games against pretty much all 4 mcg tennants every year, they would probably be more likely to win the grand final if the got there, but less likely to actually make it

and youd also have the other interstate teams wanting more double ups vs the mcg tennants, whihc would make scheduling headaches.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

The game was a lot different 20 years ago. Brisbane had cap concessions didn’t they to keep their list together? Unfortunately the data of the last 17 years shows 8/10 Victorian teams beating non vic teams on GF day. Were Hawthorn and Richmond that much better?

Interstate sides do have home games, yes, but so do Victorian sides. Heaps. It doesn’t even it out at all. The obviously alternative is to have non Victorian sides request more games at the G, it benefits Victorian sides so you can’t worry about that, or put the GF at a neutral venue and minimise supporter tickets because they want the corporate revenue.

Bar the G, what ground has the biggest capacity?

It does even out somewhat I think. It depends on a club by club basis though.
Take this example; Dogs, Saints, North, Dons play Brisbane once per year at Gabba maybe. Sometimes none at all. Brisbane plays what 6 games at their home ground (Marvel) every year.

So if familiarity with a ground is the advantage you suggest it is then Brisbane have an obvious advantage over Marvel stadium Victorian clubs, both home and away and in finals played at the two venues. They have a big familiarity advantage compared to their opponents across both venues.

Preference scheduling interstate games at the G can't just be done for Brisbane. That wouldn't be fair. It would mean Pies, Carlton, Tigers playing Gold Coast, GWS , Freo at the G as well. There's only 2 grounds in Melbourne for 8 clubs.

This will lead to scenarios where for example Pies v Geelong is played at Marvel as a result of scheduling the Gold Coast v. Carlton game at the G. (as one example). It'd be a disaster from a financial and fans perspective.

 

[demondavey]

It does even out somewhat I think. It depends on a club by club basis though.
Take this example; Dogs, Saints, North, Dons play Brisbane once per year at Gabba maybe. Sometimes none at all. Brisbane plays what 6 games at their home ground (Marvel) every year.

So if familiarity with a ground is the advantage you suggest it is then Brisbane have an obvious advantage over Marvel stadium Victorian clubs, both home and away and in finals played at the two venues. They have a big familiarity advantage compared to their opponents across both venues.

Preference scheduling interstate games at the G can't just be done for Brisbane. That wouldn't be fair. It would mean Pies, Carlton, Tigers playing Gold Coast, GWS , Freo at the G as well. There's only 2 grounds in Melbourne for 8 clubs.

This will lead to scenarios where for example Pies v Geelong is played at Marvel as a result of scheduling the Gold Coast v. Carlton game at the G. (as one example). It'd be a disaster from a financial and fans perspective.

I don’t think we can get it right, it’s complicated to prioritise certain interstate teams. The obvious move for fairness it play the GF at a neutral ground. Logical sequence in the discussion id think.

 

[My Tilly]

No McStay, Murphy, Adams, Moore hobbled, and Brisbane never looked likely at any stage in the match. Even when they took the lead in last quarter, Collingwood always had another gear to go to.

Brisbane's best opportunity passed them by. They should still go deep into September again this year but aren't winning another flag for a while.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I don’t think we can get it right, it’s complicated to prioritise certain interstate teams. The obvious move for fairness it play the GF at a neutral ground. Logical sequence in the discussion id think.

I'm fine with that. It's a much better solution than trying to preference schedule interstate teams at the G all season.