Strategy European talent pool

Remove this Banner Ad

Heir_Apparent

Heir_Apparent

Team Captain
May 3, 2012
325
317
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hi guys, I would like to bring some thoughts to everyone's attention if I may.

So I find it bizarre that many clubs are scouting the USA for big men talent vs Europe.

It is very well known that there is a far greater abundance of giants in Europe, namely Romania and Serbia.
It is common for men to get 2.2m tall (Aaron Sandilands) and have careers in a European basketball league.
Not only this but in Europe boys also play a lot of soccer, in USA they do not, so the Europeans are raised with footskills vs the US guys.
Also wages for professional basketball in Europe are quite poor compared to what AFL clubs could offer them as a developing rookie, like what some clubs are doing for US prospects.

Not only are 2.2m guys common, there are plenty of 2.3m+ guys out there.
Why not try plonking a giant 20 meters out from goal, opposition will always need 2 players on him.

I think it's only a matter of time until we see a giant player who is unstoppable up forward, especially if the Euro giants are considered, they have the potential to cause a revolution.

Anyways not sure if Mr. Hine has thought of this or knows the scope for that region of Europe, but someone should tell him "Hey! Derek! Go check out some European basketball leagues! Bring home a 2.4 meter giant please."
 
Heir_Apparent said:
Hi guys, I would like to bring some thoughts to everyone's attention if I may.

So I find it bizarre that many clubs are scouting the USA for big men talent vs Europe.

It is very well known that there is a far greater abundance of giants in Europe, namely Romania and Serbia.
It is common for men to get 2.2m tall (Aaron Sandilands) and have careers in a European basketball league.
Not only this but in Europe boys also play a lot of soccer, in USA they do not, so the Europeans are raised with footskills vs the US guys.
Also wages for professional basketball in Europe are quite poor compared to what AFL clubs could offer them as a developing rookie, like what some clubs are doing for US prospects.

Not only are 2.2m guys common, there are plenty of 2.3m+ guys out there.
Why not try plonking a giant 20 meters out from goal, opposition will always need 2 players on him.

I think it's only a matter of time until we see a giant player who is unstoppable up forward, especially if the Euro giants are considered, they have the potential to cause a revolution.

Anyways not sure if Mr. Hine has thought of this or knows the scope for that region of Europe, but someone should tell him "Hey! Derek! Go check out some European basketball leagues! Bring home a 2.4 meter giant please."
Click to expand...

The language barrier makes the chances of them making it even smaller.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Heir_Apparent said:
See that's a misnomer, they are all taught English in school these days.

Every angle I look at it, these guys would destroy any US prospect in all tests.
Click to expand...

Hope you dont mind me chiming in. But US prospects would have any potential European prospects beat in general athleticism. Well especially if you use Basketball as reference.
The bigger European basketball players are finesse type players, where as most big US players are typically run and jump players, relying on explosive ability.
It all boils down to what role you want them for and from the looks of it, they're targeting players for the ruck role and you'd argue athleticism would be more useful.
As for footskills, I figure it would take anyone quite some time to develop the skill of kicking an oblong shaped footy, regardless of sporting background.
All else being equal, you'd pick an athletic over a non-athletic player, and you certainly have more of them to choose from in the U.S especially considering the sheer number of failed prospects in other sports.
 
Last edited:
Heir_Apparent said:
Hi guys, I would like to bring some thoughts to everyone's attention if I may.

So I find it bizarre that many clubs are scouting the USA for big men talent vs Europe.

It is very well known that there is a far greater abundance of giants in Europe, namely Romania and Serbia.
It is common for men to get 2.2m tall (Aaron Sandilands) and have careers in a European basketball league.
Not only this but in Europe boys also play a lot of soccer, in USA they do not, so the Europeans are raised with footskills vs the US guys.
Also wages for professional basketball in Europe are quite poor compared to what AFL clubs could offer them as a developing rookie, like what some clubs are doing for US prospects.

Not only are 2.2m guys common, there are plenty of 2.3m+ guys out there.
Why not try plonking a giant 20 meters out from goal, opposition will always need 2 players on him.

I think it's only a matter of time until we see a giant player who is unstoppable up forward, especially if the Euro giants are considered, they have the potential to cause a revolution.

Anyways not sure if Mr. Hine has thought of this or knows the scope for that region of Europe, but someone should tell him "Hey! Derek! Go check out some European basketball leagues! Bring home a 2.4 meter giant please."
Click to expand...

Common for men to be 2.2m tall? What a load of crap. The tallest player at the 2014 FIBA world cup was 2.18 and he is Iranian. The average height for a centre was 2.10. If 2.2m+ was common you would think they would be fairly common at the elite level. They aren't.

The same averages appear in the NBA (almost identical averages per position actually). With players at or above 2.2M tall being extremely rare. Being above 2m tall is of no evolutionary benefit, the ideal height for a human male being ~1.88m, so it makes sense that the very tall are uncommon as are the very short.

So you have a tiny group of individuals then narrow that down in to a demographic capable of spending a few years learning the game and still having a meaningful career and you end up with 3/5 of SFA.
 
Imo the AFL recruiting industry are making a mistake in being so narrow minded with only wanting 2m+ giants soley for a ruck come fwd spot.

The 183 -197cm guys have them on toast athletically and in terms of co-ordination, the argument ruck is easier to learn is also a furphy especially if you consider they also need to learn forward line mechanics on top of it.

I would love to see Dekka target a 194-197cm athletic freak for a spot as a KPF, sadly they seem way too hesitant to try. Not like we don't have the funds to attempt it either just a wasted opportunity.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

loki04 said:
I would love to see Dekka target a 194-197cm athletic freak for a spot as a KPF,
Click to expand...

Darcy Moore would be one. A few years younger and has a great footballing pedigree.
I think that extra athleticism in the forwardline doesn't matter as much footballing smarts, just look at Majak Daw or Israel Folau.

If you want an exapmple from over seas perhaps Eric Wallace although he is 198cm last time I checked.

I think looking for an athletic freak key defenders is more viable but we have one in Jonathan Marsh who has grown up with the game.

I think we can find those athletic freak 194-197cm in Australia, who've grown up the game or at least played the game for a year or two and are younger than the ones from overseas.

Re: the ruck is easy to learn, maybe I'm generalising here but allot ruckman seem like dumb footballers anyways, so football IQ isn't as important or the standards aren't as high for the ruck so getting an athletic freak ruckman who hasn't played the game isn't disadvantaged as much as much as a key forward.

As for ruckman learning how to play forward, very few ruckman end up making decent forwards anyways, the athletic freak who is 10cm taller than everyone else should be able to stick to the structure and compete when he has too.

As for 180-190cm guys. We've got Ben Sinclair and we tried Caolan Mooney also Nathan Freeman was an athletic freak when we drafted him.
 
mike123 said:
Darcy Moore would be one. A few years younger and has a great footballing pedigree.
I think that extra athleticism in the forwardline doesn't matter as much footballing smarts, just look at Majak Daw or Israel Folau.

If you want an exapmple from over seas perhaps Eric Wallace although he is 198cm last time I checked.

I think looking for an athletic freak key defenders is more viable but we have one in Jonathan Marsh who has grown up with the game.

I think we can find those athletic freak 194-197cm in Australia, who've grown up the game or at least played the game for a year or two and are younger than the ones from overseas.

Re: the ruck is easy to learn, maybe I'm generalising here but allot ruckman seem like dumb footballers anyways, so football IQ isn't as important or the standards aren't as high for the ruck so getting an athletic freak ruckman who hasn't played the game isn't disadvantaged as much as much as a key forward.

As for ruckman learning how to play forward, very few ruckman end up making decent forwards anyways, the athletic freak who is 10cm taller than everyone else should be able to stick to the structure and compete when he has too.

As for 180-190cm guys. We've got Ben Sinclair and we tried Caolan Mooney also Nathan Freeman was an athletic freak when we drafted him.
Click to expand...

Was purely talking USA prospects.


Also USA athletes > AUS and by a fair way too.

They are a free hit only cost the club $$ which with the new tax we should have ample left for this type of thing. They sit outside the list too so bonus on that front as well.

Just because they can "contest" because they are tall doesn't mean they don't get taught the nuances and how to play the forward role.

Cox spent more time learning how to play forward then ruck early days and Dekka was adamant he would become a capable fwd and Ruck, Shae another who spent large time as a fwd too.

So they are putting the time into them anyway might as well get a real freak athlete who makes nic nat look 2nd rate then a giant who is a good athlete but only cause he is a freak height otherwise he would be average.
 
PepperFace said:
Problem is the money they earn playing low leagues of basketball in Europe still shits all over the AFL salary cap
Click to expand...

That's true but AFL clubs can guarantee their wages will be paid whereas a lot of lower league European teams* don't have that luxury these days.

I'm not a basketball fan at all but this is certainly the case in soccer anyway.
 
Helfarch said:
Common for men to be 2.2m tall? What a load of crap. The tallest player at the 2014 FIBA world cup was 2.18 and he is Iranian. The average height for a centre was 2.10. If 2.2m+ was common you would think they would be fairly common at the elite level. They aren't.

The same averages appear in the NBA (almost identical averages per position actually). With players at or above 2.2M tall being extremely rare. Being above 2m tall is of no evolutionary benefit, the ideal height for a human male being ~1.88m, so it makes sense that the very tall are uncommon as are the very short.

So you have a tiny group of individuals then narrow that down in to a demographic capable of spending a few years learning the game and still having a meaningful career and you end up with 3/5 of SFA.
Click to expand...

Giants are common in amateur leagues and just in general in that part of Europe.
Because of their stupid size they blow out quickly in basketball and can barely go a half let alone a full game.

In AFL however, you could plonk a 2.3m giant 20m from goal and he wouldn't have to move all game.

Kick ball too him and he would get a free kick every single time.
 
Also there are only a few European basketball teams that have wages better than what AFL clubs could afford.
Literally only 3-4 clubs with a decent player salary budget.
 
Good players can spring from anywhere, the only real way is to canvas the entire world as AFL is a game that suits all shapes and sizes.

My Future brother in law is Mauritian, been here 6 years is only 17 and is starring for Narre Warren u18s as a 5'8 Mid/Fwd, he has only played the game for 3 years and struggles to have the instincts of other kids who have been brought up playing the game, having said that athletically he is far superior than most other kids, playing like a carbon copy of Daniel Wells.
Exposure to the game and a willingness for internationals to want to learn will be the key to recruiting successfully from overseas.
 
Axl the great said:
Good players can spring from anywhere, the only real way is to canvas the entire world as AFL is a game that suits all shapes and sizes.

My Future brother in law is Mauritian, been here 6 years is only 17 and is starring for Narre Warren u18s as a 5'8 Mid/Fwd, he has only played the game for 3 years and struggles to have the instincts of other kids who have been brought up playing the game, having said that athletically he is far superior than most other kids, playing like a carbon copy of Daniel Wells.
Exposure to the game and a willingness for internationals to want to learn will be the key to recruiting successfully from overseas.
Click to expand...
Let's hope he's not overlooked due to size!
 
Bard said:
Let's hope he's not overlooked due to size!
Click to expand...

I hope not either mate, without bias he goes good, real good. Had a crap game when Stingrays scouts were watching last year but remains hopeful.
One sad story is his best mate and a bloke i know well too got picked for Dandenong Stingrays at 15, huge unit 6'3 at that age and would have gone all the way, agile, strong and very very clever for a ruckman.

Well that kid is now 18 sits at home stoned out of his brain, sells drugs, fights, can't run 20 metres without doubling over and has been arrested multiple times, so desire to make it and stay on track plays a huge part.
 
loki04 said:
Was purely talking USA prospects.
Click to expand...
My point was you can find athletes in Australia, that can also play the game.

Also USA athletes > AUS and by a fair way too.
Click to expand...

There are better athletes in USA because of its high population, but do they make better players than Australian athletes?

Usually no.

Also my other point was there a more athletes from 183-197cm in Australia to pick from than the 2m giants. So they have to look elsewhere for the 2m giant athlete. Weather we can find the medium height athletes here that also have a footballing background. Are you going to pick an already fast player who knows the game, or an even faster player that doesn't?

They are a free hit only cost the club $$ which with the new tax we should have ample left for this type of thing. They sit outside the list too so bonus on that front as well.
Click to expand...

Just because they can "contest" because they are tall doesn't mean they don't get taught the nuances and how to play the forward role.

Cox spent more time learning how to play forward then ruck early days and Dekka was adamant he would become a capable fwd and Ruck, Shae another who spent large time as a fwd too.
Click to expand...

You'll also find those 194-197cm will train in the ruck so they can be the second ruck.

So they are putting the time into them anyway might as well get a real freak athlete who makes nic nat look 2nd rate then a giant who is a good athlete but only cause he is a freak height otherwise he would be average.
Click to expand...

What advantage does an athletic freak key forward have on his defender?

A ruckman that's taller and can jump higher than his opponent is a significant advantage. This ability helps them in the most import part of being a ruckman, rucking.

Weather a key forward being quicker then a key defender isn't much help. Being that extra bit quicker isn't going to help if your the ball is getting bombed on you head and there are 18 people in the forwardline. Having a high jump helps but defenders are good at grounding their opponents. Just look at Jessie White, Majak Daw. I know there not from America that isn't the point the point is how athleticism translates in the game. There athletic but don't have the smarts and Majak Daw looks completely lost on the field and White is average at his very best. Would bringing in guys more athletic but even less accustomed to AFL really work?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top