Opinion Expectations

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clogged said:
Again, you're comparing a side that has made three GFs in a row, with two premierships. Hawthorn are an already great side who have had to manage their older stars.

Fremantle are simply a good side that has to become great while managing the older stars.
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which is, I think, exactly what they are trying to do.
 
If we can play both Apeness and Taberner, only counting as one player then we can replace Pavlich.

If we can play Clarke and Griffin, only counting as one player then we can replace Sandilands.

etc etc

If we draft Lamb and he turns into a gun half forward who kicks goals immediately then we might be able to field a less productive Apeness when Pavlich isn't playing next year but I think that drafting players and expecting them to play says more about our team than the player, it's not fair to expect games from draftees in their first two years.
 

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clogged said:
Regardless of whenever his replacement comes in, they are still going to be heavily inexperienced (save a trade situation). It would be far preferable to have a rookie key defender come in with still a reasonable amount of seniority in the team. Loading up with McPharlin again means the likelihood that a group of retirees leaving in one season increases and therefore three or more inexperienced players are thrown into important roles. And it is that would see the side plummet down the ladder.

McPharlin was irreplaceable four years ago when Tarrant left. He isn't getting any more replaceable, but he will have to be replaced.
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If you wait a year, they'll be slightly more experienced and will have spent another year in the gym. I think that's preferable for both Pearce and Smith. Particularly considering Smith's injury interrupted this year.
 
clogged said:
That's what I've been saying. It's my belief that it won't work. It is setting up the side for a fall.
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we've seen what happens when sides throw all their old players under the bus and invest youth with all the responsibility. that doesn't work either. You don't get rid of players like McPh and Pav when they still have something to offer. Their experience and mentoring is invaluable.
I think we are doing the best we can with what we have and its not bad.
Hawthorn are the best because they are the best. We can only aspire and do the best we can and keep improving.
 
E Shed said:
we've seen what happens when sides throw all their old players under the bus and invest youth with all the responsibility. that doesn't work either. You don't get rid of players like McPh and Pav when they still have something to offer. Their experience and mentoring is invaluable.
I think we are doing the best we can with what we have and its not bad.
Hawthorn are the best because they are the best. We can only aspire and do the best we can and keep improving.
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Couldn't agree more. Teams make more errors when they get rid of valuable and experienced players.

It always causes great debate about when players should retire and when they are too old, but the current 'old' teams seem to be going just fine.

Plus Sandi, Pav and Luke are worth their place in the team (even in a reduced capacity). We will be a 'young' team soon enough but in the mean time keep having a crack at the GF.
 
Its really up to Lyon on how far this group can go, if he decides to come home with a wet sail into the finals, then we will give it a shake.
Has to be prepared to lose some early games, and give the kids development time, Crozier, Sherro, need huge pre-seasons.
Same with Simpson, if he stays, he plays, I expect next year will be the last for Crowley, he also need to be challenged.
 
While it would have hurt us a little I do think McPharlin should have retired this year, Silvagni/Ibbo are more than capable replacements. A few games for Alex Pearce during the easier games and we could have got by without putting too much stress on our defence.

I also believe Crowley was another player we could have retired this year without too much effect on the team. Replacing him we a more offensive minded player.


That said we lost to Port not because of injuries but because of our inaccuracy in front of the sticks and our poor clearance work. Fix that up and we can beat the best of them and be number 1. The Hawks game showed what we can do.
 
pavsbootlace said:
If you wait a year, they'll be slightly more experienced and will have spent another year in the gym. I think that's preferable for both Pearce and Smith. Particularly considering Smith's injury interrupted this year.
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It's not just about years in the gym. It's about AFL game sense. Whenever the next crop is thrown to take a key role fulltime there will be a gulf in experience, and the more players that are new the more exposed it leaves the side.
E Shed said:
we've seen what happens when sides throw all their old players under the bus and invest youth with all the responsibility. that doesn't work either. You don't get rid of players like McPh and Pav when they still have something to offer. Their experience and mentoring is invaluable.
I think we are doing the best we can with what we have and its not bad.
Hawthorn are the best because they are the best. We can only aspire and do the best we can and keep improving.
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You don't seem to get it. The old blokes will be throwing themselves under the bus when they choose to retire. And if they all do it together, Freo will have no choice but to give youth all the responsibility at the same time. The decision will be taken out of the club's hands.

McPharlin wasn't retained to be a mentor. He was retained to play every single game for when he is uninjured. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't really paid much attention to how Lyon picks his squads.

Letting players go is the hard decision clubs have to make. People keep citing Geelong. They let Mooney know his services weren't required any more. They let Chapman go. Each possibly had something more to offer, but Geelong knew they had to move on. The Cats have been rotating experienced players out of the side every years since Harley pulled the pin. By contrast, Freo's side has barely changed since late 2012.

The longer Freo continue to hold onto the old stars, the more likely it is they retire en masse.
 
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E Shed said:
Sorry if I haven't been following all of this thread, is your point that we should have delisted McPh and or Pav/Sandi this year?
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I think only one of the 30+ players has shown he won't be able to contribute very much next year, and that is McPharlin. He has struggled with the kind of overuse leg injuries a 30+ year old gets for the past three years, especially at the back end of seasons. McPharlin's retention looks to me like a club that is unwilling to move on.

Pavlich probably has one more decent year in him. Sandilands I believe could play as long as he wants, but who knows when he decides that another preseason and sitting on a plane every second week is too much.

At the end of next year Pav and Sandi will most likely still be the best at the club in their positions. McPharlin is still the best key defender at Freo, and if injury luck goes his way still could be next year. They could all pull the pin at once, and who knows what Crowley, Duffield and Johnson might decide if they feel Freo's current window is over.

I see a lot of parallels with this and Peter Bell's extra year in 2008.
 

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clogged said:
I think only one of the 30+ players has shown he won't be able to contribute very much next year, and that is McPharlin. He has struggled with the kind of overuse leg injuries a 30+ year old gets for the past three years, especially at the back end of seasons. McPharlin's retention looks to me like a club that is unwilling to move on.

Pavlich probably has one more decent year in him. Sandilands I believe could play as long as he wants, but who knows when he decides that another preseason and sitting on a plane every second week is too much.

At the end of next year Pav and Sandi will most likely still be the best at the club in their positions. McPharlin is still the best key defender at Freo, and if injury luck goes his way still could be next year. They could all pull the pin at once, and who knows what Crowley, Duffield and Johnson might decide if they feel Freo's current window is over.

I see a lot of parallels with this and Peter Bell's extra year in 2008.
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Man, you are joining a lot of dots up there...
 
We're actually efficient inside the forward 50 (3rd for goals per entry, and 3rd for forward 50 differentials), the only thing that kills us is not kicking straight in higher pressure games. The club has come out and mentioned it's something to look at, so it's not a long bow to assume there may be some improvement regarding 'inability to score' either through changes to training drill during the season, or work done during the off-season. I don't think it's an unreasonable dot to join (amongst others).
 
The main reason they retained McPharlin is that we don't really have any other tall, mobile defenders. Dawson and Tanner Smith are Dinosaurs. Silvagni isn't tall enough to take on the guys McPharlin does. They want Luke around until Smith or Alex Pearce comes on, which could be another season at least.

Dawson plays quite well on gorilla forwards but gets found out by the more mobile talls. You'd back Zac in all day against someone like Hawkins or Tippett, but not against Buddy or Gunston. That is McPharlin's speciality, and will hopefully be Alex Pearce's too.
 
jmadrox said:
care to explain? They aren't old, or lumbering, so I dont follow you. Thats what I infer when someone mentions Dinosaur.
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Dawson is nearing 30, the Smith remark must be a Freudian slip?

Dawson is arguably our most agile KPP, esp. after Luke's decline.
 
Kram81 said:
Hopefully wrong but it does seem like 1 year too many for Luke.
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Prior to Luke's injuries he was a star, superstar in fact. He had lost none of this agility or athleticism . I think so long as he can return to the field he'll be more than serviceable. You don't just metamorphosis from a superstar to a has-been in 1-year.
 
andrew99 said:
Prior to Luke's injuries he was a star, superstar in fact. He had lost none of this agility or athleticism . I think so long as he can return to the field he'll be more than serviceable. You don't just metamorphosis from a superstar to a has-been in 1-year.
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When you are 33 and injury prone it can definitely happen.
 
jmadrox said:
care to explain? They aren't old, or lumbering, so I dont follow you. Thats what I infer when someone mentions Dinosaur.
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Mostly I meant that they lack pace. What makes McPharlin such a great defender is his ability to keep up with fast leading forwards. That's why he's effective on guys like Buddy Franklin and Tex Walker while our other defenders aren't. Zac Dawson is very good at playing on contested marking forwards like Hawkins or Tippett but you wouldn't want him on Buddy or Gunston.
 
andrew99 said:
Prior to Luke's injuries he was a star, superstar in fact. He had lost none of this agility or athleticism . I think so long as he can return to the field he'll be more than serviceable. You don't just metamorphosis from a superstar to a has-been in 1-year.
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It should be interesting to see how maca is managed next year.If maca is cleverly managed,I believe he can be a more than useful contributor towards our 2015 flag assault.
 
I am a bit worried. We need Crozier, Sheridan, Sutcliffe and Morabito to all have big improved years and the older guys to stay the same (no injuries please). Taberner worries me. Then Lyon has to find one more player under 21 who can come up into the side.
 
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