Fad Diets and Quackery

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Chief said:
Protein in a slice of beef is no different if you mince it up and cook it as a burger instead of grilling it whole.

It is good that you're confused about dietary advice: it is a confusing and complicated subject. The only people trying to make grand claims sound like they have simple and easily understandable reasoning are fad diet marketers.

The bland advice about eating a bit of everything and not too much of anything, especially meat, is the best advice you'll get. Any of these Low This, High That diets (that almost always mean Extremely Low This, Extremely High That) are more likely to shorten your life according to what we know so far.
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Well it is different, how different i am no expert. But more to the fact if you are the type of person to take time to but steak cook it up yourself, you are more likely to do so with some veggies as well instead of with fries and a coke.

But yes agree everyone has their 2 cents on what is right what is wrong and more often its all motivated by $$$ as opposed to general health and wellbeing.

For me i know what works to lose/gain weight, but it might not work for others.
 
saj_21 said:
Well it is different,
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No the proteins don't change if you put the meat through a mincer. You're thinking of the things McDonald's adds - salt to make it taste better, sugar to reduce the saltiness, plus the fat that is added at processing plus probably preservatives etc.

The protein does not change with mincing.
 
saj_21 said:
For me i know what works to lose/gain weight, but it might not work for others.
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Yes but the weight loss with high fat or high protein or low carbs might come at the expense of a longer life.
 

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Chief said:
Yes but the weight loss with high fat or high protein or low carbs might come at the expense of a longer life.
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Weight increase due the same will also come at the expense of longer life.......we are all doomed o_O
 
Chief said:
No the proteins don't change if you put the meat through a mincer. You're thinking of the things McDonald's adds - salt to make it taste better, sugar to reduce the saltiness, plus the fat that is added at processing plus probably preservatives etc.

The protein does not change with mincing.
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Macro-nutrients aren't the only defining factor in nutrition.
 
Chief said:
Protein in a slice of beef is no different if you mince it up and cook it as a burger instead of grilling it whole.
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Chief said:
That's not in dispute.
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There's a huge difference between free range natural meats and their factory farmed, grain and hormone fed brethren. It's the latter that normally end up patties or schnitzels in take away places (which was saj_21 's point).

Any study that doesn't detail their subjects exact animal protein intake is completely useless.
 
showdownhero said:
There's a huge difference between free range natural meats and their factory farmed, grain and hormone fed brethren. It's the latter that normally end up patties or schnitzels in take away places (which was saj_21 's point).

Any study that doesn't detail their subjects exact animal protein intake is completely useless.
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It's the common misconception when studies are released on "high" protein diets, the studies generally take on Chief's view of protein is protein and don't take into consideration what protein sources are consumed.

I'm on a high protein diet but it doesn't come from take away shops, burgers and processed foods. Secondly people who generally consume these foods don't give a dam and are more likely to smoke, drink and not give a dam about macros/food sources (no whose the one making generalizationso_O) i give up haha
 

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Chief said:
No the proteins don't change if you put the meat through a mincer. You're thinking of the things McDonald's adds - salt to make it taste better, sugar to reduce the saltiness, plus the fat that is added at processing plus probably preservatives etc.

The protein does not change with mincing.
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Those studies don't distinguish between "paleo" friendly meat and highly processed meat which makes the comparison wrong.
 
Chief said:
"Paleo friendly" is not a real thing.
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Not trying to pick a fight here, as you know i fall in the middle between most posters on here (the LCHF v non-LCHF)

Do you honestly believe all meat is the same?
 
saj_21 said:
Not trying to pick a fight here, as you know i fall in the middle between most posters on here (the LCHF v non-LCHF)

Do you honestly believe all meat is the same?
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You're confused on this point.

Meat protein is meat protein.

Meat products differ.

Sorry but I see 10-person pilot studies bandied about as proof for the paleo fad, then when real studies indicate the opposite they are deemed totally invalid by fad dieters.

If you read them a little you will see they listed the weaknesses of the studies. That is fair enough but does not make them useless in adding to our knowledge of nutrition.
 
Chief said:
You're confused on this point.

Meat protein is meat protein.

Meat products differ.

Sorry but I see 10-person pilot studies bandied about as proof for the paleo fad, then when real studies indicate the opposite they are deemed totally invalid by fad dieters.

If you read them a little you will see they listed the weaknesses of the studies. That is fair enough but does not make them useless in adding to our knowledge of nutrition.
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As meat protein sources differ in production, preparation and how they are served, likewise these foods will have a different affect on the body, especially if consumed in high amounts. Any studying purely linking X intake of protein with Y amount of disease cannot be 100% definitive.

But will agree with you on the 10-person paleo studies.

That's why i always say do what comes naturally to you when it comes to diet and exercise, its not a one size shoe fits all scenario. And honestly i couldn't care about what other people eat or drink, it doesn't affect my life at all*
 
The fat attached to the protein on the non pastured fed meat is harmful compared to the fat on pasture fed animals that is why the study is flawed.
 
Big Cox 88 said:
The fat attached to the protein on the non pastured fed meat is harmful compared to the fat on pasture fed animals that is why the study is flawed.
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Huh?

In what way is the animal fat changed?
 
Chief said:
Huh?

In what way is the animal fat changed?
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Non grass fed animals have far greater proportion of omega 6 fats which are inflammatory. Grass fed are much higher in Omega 3 and saturated fat.
 
Apologies, they have similar omega 6 profile, however grass fat has 5 times more omega 3 which neutralises the omega 6.

I’ve been one to bang the omega-6 in feedlot beef drum, perhaps as loudly as anyone, but I think a revisiting is in order. Simply put, while the omega-6:eek:mega-3 ratio in CAFO beef is worse than the ratio in grass-fed beef, it’s not because the omega-6 content of beef fat skyrockets with grain feeding; it’s because the omega-3 content is basically nonexistent. The absolute totals of omega-6 in grass-fed and grain-fed are roughly similar. Grass-fed is even richer in PUFA by percentage, owing to the increase in omega-3s. As long as you’re avoiding or limiting the real big sources of linoleic acid in the diet, like seed oils, bushels of nuts, and conventionally raised poultry fat, the omega-6 content of conventional beef fat won’t throw your tissue ratios off by much (if at all). What will, however, is the lack of omega-3 fats in grain-fed. Eat some fatty fish or take some high quality fish oil to round it out.

Grass-fed beef is also higher in B-vitamins, beta-carotene (look for yellow fat), vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol), vitamin K, and trace minerals like magnesium, calcium, and selenium. Studies show grass feeding results in higher levels of conjugated linoleic acid, the “good” naturally occurring trans fat. Studies also typically show lower total levels of saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats in grass-fed cows, but that’s just looking at the trimmed cuts. If you look at the whole carcass post-slaughter, you’ll find it’s encased in a thick shell of saturated animal fat that gets removed because consumers are scared of it and many grass-fed producers love to market their meat as low in “bad fat” and low in cholesterol. Kurt Harris, who regularly hunts “lean” wild bucks and miraculously discovers ample stores of body fat, just put up a post dealing with this exact issue. Long story short: grass-fed beef has plenty of fat, it’s just distributed differently. More subtle marbling and more subcutaneous deposition.

Grass-fed truly shines in the micronutrient profile for one reason. Grass-fed cows get more nutritious food. Remember: they aren’t munching on monoculture lawn cuttings (let alone soy and corn). They’re eating a wide variety of (often wild) grasses, sedges, rushes, shrubs, and herbs, each with its own nutrient profile. Of course, how nutritious those graminoids are depends on the quality of the soil, or the terroir. If we care about what our food eats, we should also care about what the food that our food eats is eating, right? Grass-fed isn’t just miraculously higher in selenium because of some magic process; it’s higher because grass grown in good wild soil patrolled by plenty of mobile, self-perpetuating organic fertilizer machines contains more selenium than soybeans or corn grown on nutrient deficient land. It should follow that pastured, grain-supplemented beef raised on good soil by good ranchers also contains higher levels of micronutrients when compared to the CAFO cow, albeit not as high as the purely grass-fed.



Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-differences-between-grass-fed-beef-and-grain-fed-beef/#ixzz3Zu4Bb3q5
 
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