Fawad Ahmed

[Outshined]

Haha yep, it's a bit different bowling to Clarke and Smith compared to the WA boys.

His one saving grace might be that the English traditionally aren't great players of legspin, although I'd argue that perception is skewed a tad by us having Shane Warne for so many years.

 

[Cleavy]

the problem seems to be that regardless of which spinner we select, they are not bowling us to victory in the 2nd innings/final day of matches.

 

[eth-dog]

the problem seems to be that regardless of which spinner we select, they are not bowling us to victory in the 2nd innings/final day of matches.

Then wouldn't it make sense to bowl the one less likely to lose us the match in Lyon?

 

[Dan Cooper]

the problem seems to be that regardless of which spinner we select, they are not bowling us to victory in the 2nd innings/final day of matches.

The choice of a spinner for Brisbane is no doubt a quandary for the selectors. The safe choice would be Lyon. But it will be interesting to see whether they are prepared to take the gamble on Ahmed.

 

[The_Reaper]

The choice of a spinner for Brisbane is no doubt a quandary for the selectors. The safe choice would be Lyon. But it will be interesting to see whether they are prepared to take the gamble on Ahmed.

s**t gamble especially if we're already gambling with Johnson.

 

[Selective Retention]

It's going to end very badly if they pick him. Just stick with Lyon.

 

[Dan Cooper]

According to this morning's Herald Sun: "Ahmed risk too great", and that's probably realistic after he fell away in his most recent stints at the bowling crease. There's little doubt Ahmed is knocking on the door, and non-selection in the 1st Test won't be the end of the Fawad Ahmed story.

 

[western royboy]

According to this morning's Herald Sun: "Ahmed risk too great", and that's probably realistic after he fell away in his most recent stints at the bowling crease. There's little doubt Ahmed is knocking on the door, and non-selection in the 1st Test won't be the end of the Fawad Ahmed story.

I don't think he's knocking at all - he gets caned by good batsman - he bowls a bit too flat and fast to be a threat against test players. If he's a risk now I can't see him improving that much in such a small period of time.

 

[Dan Cooper]

I don't think he's knocking at all - he gets caned by good batsman - he bowls a bit too flat and fast to be a threat against test players. If he's a risk now I can't see him improving that much in such a small period of time.

The perception - via the press and the so called cricket experts - is that the selectors consider he is knocking at the door.

Not long ago the press were running with a story that "the selectors were keeping Ahmed away from the Poms and would slip him in under the radar".

There's not a very long list of contenders that's for sure.

 

[western royboy]

The perception - via the press and the so called cricket experts - is that the selectors consider he is knocking at the door.

Not long ago the press were running with a story that "the selectors were keeping Ahmed away from the Poms and would slip him in under the radar".

There's not a very long list of contenders that's for sure.

True there are no contenders - but just because he bowls leg spin and the poms don't play it well doesn't mean we should just throw him in there to get slaughtered - remember Bryce McGain. Hopefully the selectors are watching the games. If they are they would have noted that Steven O'Keefe was probably the best bowler in the Vic v NSW shield game, that Agar has bowled ok in both shield fixtures despite his figures and his fielders not doing him justice and that up in Qld, Hauritz and Boyce look good as a pairing. Fawad Ahmed's figures this year are inflated by bowling to an understrength WA lower order and since then he's been tapped and generally played with ease. Marcus North could have played him with a stump.

If you want to pick a spinner on form then from what I've seen O'Keefe, Hauritz and possibly Boyce would be ahead of Lyon then Agar and then Ahmed.

I will add that Selectors talk to a lot of people to gauge their thoughts on prospects. Most of these people have played and watch a lot of cricket. I have a connection to one of these folks who gave me the Test Squad for the Ashes two and a half weeks before it was picked. Whilst two didn't make the initial squad (Agar and Smith) they certainly did make the first test. Ahmed was talked up from day one - I've seen him live on three or four occasions and to my eye, he's never given any indication that he's a Test class bowler on varying tracks and conditions. Over the past few weeks I've been chatting to my contact (who talks regularly to Inverarity) and suggesting to him that they need to look a bit closer because he isn't the player they are looking for. I'm told they have and they have now changed their opinion to be similar to the one I expressed.

There are rarely any surprises because the group think really does happen and by the time the test squad is announced there are enough people who know what they are thinking. Cricket Journo's know who to tap in terms of who the selectors talk to. I was castigated by some last year when I suggested Agar would go to England, yet a week later Chloe Saltau ran a similar story to what I had been told.

It's not as secretive as some believe.

 

[frankrizzo]

Do we really know that this current english team do play leggies badly?

kp won his fair share of battles against warne, bell struggled but all our great bowlers had the wood on bell during that era, cook was dominated by mcgrath/clark(out once to warne) in the only series he and warne both appeared in.

I can't recall many leggies dominating this new generation of english bats.

this england got smashed by the great leggie warne so all leggies will have an edge on england thinking seems to be based more on hope than fact.

 

[The_Reaper]

Do we really know that this current english team do play leggies badly?

kp won his fair share of battles against warne, bell struggled but all our great bowlers had the wood on bell during that era, cook was dominated by mcgrath/clark(out once to warne) in the only series he and warne both appeared in.

I can't recall many leggies dominating this new generation of english bats.

this england got smashed by the great leggie warne so all leggies will have an edge on england thinking seems to be based more on hope than fact.

Still a bit better than the "O'Keefe proved that England are weak to left arm spinners so lets pick Doherty" thinking

 

[Zach Package]

should probably change the name of the thread to the Australian spin quandary.

Lyon is still the man for me, we don't have an Ajmal/Ashwin/Swann who will bowl us to victory on the final day, but Lyon is definitely the closest to it.

I think you have to forget past performances and look at the now, he's got the test experience, but has mad pretty big changes to his gather, action and follow through which means better shape, more curve and more action on the ball.

also bowled better, more attacking lines when given the chance against the poms.

I personally think he can do damage against the poms.

 

[frankrizzo]

On our pitches i would say lyon isn't disgraced compared to those three.

Ajmal only played once here and took 2/230

ashwin averaged 60

swann averaged 40

Australia is a spinners graveyard and lyon averages 33 here, considering the pitches have had a bit more juice the last few years i don't think those stats are bad at all.

 

[matty p]

True there are no contenders - but just because he bowls leg spin and the poms don't play it well doesn't mean we should just throw him in there to get slaughtered - remember Bryce McGain. Hopefully the selectors are watching the games. If they are they would have noted that Steven O'Keefe was probably the best bowler in the Vic v NSW shield game, that Agar has bowled ok in both shield fixtures despite his figures and his fielders not doing him justice and that up in Qld, Hauritz and Boyce look good as a pairing. Fawad Ahmed's figures this year are inflated by bowling to an understrength WA lower order and since then he's been tapped and generally played with ease. Marcus North could have played him with a stump.

If you want to pick a spinner on form then from what I've seen O'Keefe, Hauritz and possibly Boyce would be ahead of Lyon then Agar and then Ahmed.

I will add that Selectors talk to a lot of people to gauge their thoughts on prospects. Most of these people have played and watch a lot of cricket. I have a connection to one of these folks who gave me the Test Squad for the Ashes two and a half weeks before it was picked. Whilst two didn't make the initial squad (Agar and Smith) they certainly did make the first test. Ahmed was talked up from day one - I've seen him live on three or four occasions and to my eye, he's never given any indication that he's a Test class bowler on varying tracks and conditions. Over the past few weeks I've been chatting to my contact (who talks regularly to Inverarity) and suggesting to him that they need to look a bit closer because he isn't the player they are looking for. I'm told they have and they have now changed their opinion to be similar to the one I expressed.

There are rarely any surprises because the group think really does happen and by the time the test squad is announced there are enough people who know what they are thinking. Cricket Journo's know who to tap in terms of who the selectors talk to. I was castigated by some last year when I suggested Agar would go to England, yet a week later Chloe Saltau ran a similar story to what I had been told.

It's not as secretive as some believe.

What have you heard is our XI for the 1st test?

Also, why do the selectors hate O'Keefe so much? I don't get it. He's proven season after season that he's the best spinner we've got but he can't get a look in.

 

[western royboy]

What have you heard is our XI for the 1st test?

Also, why do the selectors hate O'Keefe so much? I don't get it. He's proven season after season that he's the best spinner we've got but he can't get a look in.

The XI is pretty solid just a decision over Bailey or Doolan (Watson, Rogers, Warner, Smith, Clarke, Haddin, Johnson, Siddle, Harris, Faulkner, Lyon) are all supposedly locks.

O'Keefe had two knocks against him - 1. That he was a white ball bowler only - which I think that he has disproved and 2. That he was perceived to be soft - which I also think he has disproved. If he keeps performing he will get a chance if Lyon does not flatter - it's a results business.

 

[The Speaker]

I was castigated by some last year when I suggested Agar would go to England, yet a week later Chloe Saltau ran a similar story to what I had been told.

It's not as secretive as some believe.

No, he was going to England anyway. I queried whether he would be playing as the first choice spinner.

 

[matty p]

The XI is pretty solid just a decision over Bailey or Doolan (Watson, Rogers, Warner, Smith, Clarke, Haddin, Johnson, Siddle, Harris, Faulkner, Lyon) are all supposedly locks.

O'Keefe had two knocks against him - 1. That he was a white ball bowler only - which I think that he has disproved and 2. That he was perceived to be soft - which I also think he has disproved. If he keeps performing he will get a chance if Lyon does not flatter - it's a results business.

Are we definitely playing 6 batsmen (eg. Bailey at number 6) or are they gonna be stupid and play Faulkner?

 

[western royboy]

Are we definitely playing 6 batsmen (eg. Bailey at number 6) or are they gonna be stupid and play Faulkner?

Don't know sorry

 

[western royboy]

No, he was going to England anyway. I queried whether he would be playing as the first choice spinner.

Was not referring to you - someone had a go at me and used the Agar selection as proof I was talking s**t - the only talking I was doing was to someone who had a pretty good insight into the team given the 18 I named in my little synopsis were the 18 that ended up on the tour and all bar Wade played a Test.

 

[the_interloper]

Are we definitely playing 6 batsmen (eg. Bailey at number 6) or are they gonna be stupid and play Faulkner?

I'm pretty sure Faulkner won't get a go and we will have 6 bats. There was some talk about Faulkner playing if Watson didn't come up but you'd really only play Faulkner in place of a quick I'd say, you couldn't have him in the top 6. Maybe at 7 but that would leave us with a long tail with Haddin having to move up to 6.

Ideally Faulkner's bowling can get him in in place of Johnson, then we have a batting and bowling all rounder all being picked for their main discipline, would be great to have.

 

[PTizzle]

If Johnson fails Faulks is an easy replacement at least - still don't like the MiJo idea but that's not for this thread.

I've wanted Ahmed to succeed a lot but I haven't been overly impressed. He too often seems to have bad spells and get a bit down on himself/frustrated rather than backing himself in. I know leg-spin is a tough business and he'd feel pressure but you have to back yourself to do better. To his credit in his later spells he usually does start landing them better but I just can't see how he's a better option than Lyon, who seems a lot more reliable (and I believe has been bowling better recently).

Like WRB said above Lyon just needs the full backing of Clarke and not be instructed to go overly defensive all the time.

 

[frankrizzo]

Macgill(who has been working closely to lyon and logically would have had in depth discussions about this) seemed to be mostly blaming mickey arthur for lyon's defensive bowling of late.

''Nathan's role in the team became something it should never have been allowed to become. I point the finger directly at the coach … and we've got a new coach now so it's not going to be happening. You do not allow your front-line spin bowler to be somebody who provides a rest for the fast bowlers and gets your overs bowled quickly, and that's what Nathan was doing. He was running back to his mark and, without question, he was being told this was his role.


I do believe lyon has been bowling to the plans the coach and skipper wanted, the issue is the plans were terrible.

 

[western royboy]

Macgill(who has been working closely to lyon and logically would have had in depth discussions about this) seemed to be mostly blaming mickey arthur for lyon's defensive bowling of late.

''Nathan's role in the team became something it should never have been allowed to become. I point the finger directly at the coach … and we've got a new coach now so it's not going to be happening. You do not allow your front-line spin bowler to be somebody who provides a rest for the fast bowlers and gets your overs bowled quickly, and that's what Nathan was doing. He was running back to his mark and, without question, he was being told this was his role.


I do believe lyon has been bowling to the plans the coach and skipper wanted, the issue is the plans were terrible.

Look through the wasteland of discarded Australian spinners post Warne - everyone could argue they suffered from a lack of faith by their skipper and coaches.

Lyon is very resilient - he could have easily become the same as some of these.

 

[Ill Chicken]

Hopefully he is dead and buried. They might try to sneak him in the squad for the Pakistan series in October in UAE but if he doesn't make that it should mean that is him finished for Aussie contention.