Guilty verdict impact on AFL premiership

[Demonic Ascent]

This has probably been raised in other threads but its something I've been pondering for some time now so would appreciate if anyone has an answer or just generate discussion. I assume the AFL probably doesn't even know what they would do if this occurred so would probably just make it up on the fly like everything else.

If Essendon win the premiership this year and their players are subsequently found guilty, will the club be stripped of the premiership? If not, would the guilty players be stripped of their premiership medals while the rest keep theirs and the premiership goes down in the record books as an Essendon flag?

Alternatively, what if say Port Adelaide win the premiership with one or both of Ryder & Monfries in the team. Would Port be stripped of the flag? Would it only be those two players stripped of their medals?

Initially I thought Essendon would be stripped of the flag completely but that got me thinking about Port (and to a lesser extent the Dogs) and what would happen in that situation. If they have two guilty players in their premiership team would that be enough to strip the team of the premiership? If not then how many players would Essendon have to have for a premiership to be stripped from them (a la Melbourne Storm). Obviously Essendon is more culpable than Port but at the end of the day the club is not on trial the individual players are.

What are peoples thoughts?

 

[Vindicater]

If Essendon win the premiership this year

Love my club, but stopped reading here. No chance.

 

[HTPunter]

Love my club, but stopped reading here. No chance.

Despite their slow start, Port are still a chance.

I'd be interested in peoples views on Port with Monfries and Ryder. Surely the club keeps the flag?

 

[Chameleon75]

uncharted territory, have no idea what the implications are in this scenario

 

[Purple Suit]

You have to be able to win three finals in a row to win the flag and they haven't won one in a decade.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Love my club, but stopped reading here. No chance.

Haha, yeah I agree but stranger things have happened. I guess the query is more about the impact it may have on Port who are not travelling too flash at the moment but were a premiership fancy going into the season (and especially after beating the Hawks).

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Despite their slow start, Port are still a chance.

I'd be interested in peoples views on Port with Monfries and Ryder. Surely the club keeps the flag?

I'm thinking that would probably be the case as well with Monfries/Ryder stripped of their medals. It would make for an interesting scenario though, but no doubt the AFL would come to some kind of compromised solution which would please no one and offend all.

 

[DynaBass]

Keep the flags and medals. The doping offence happened a couple of years ago.

 

[Chameleon75]

hypothetically I think it might come down to the nature of the penalty, should a guilty finding result in bans commencing after the final perhaps it wouldn't matter what had been won, but if they're backdated bans maybe awards are stripped as technically they occured in a period when they were ineligible.

who knows too many hypotheticals, one thing though if its up the afl discretion I'd put my money on no action

 

[Texicana]

Essendon have been cleared by the AFL tribunal and have every right to validly play footy, and thus if make finals and win. Even if the CAS judgement came down against the 34 there I don't think anyone could show (and very unlikely think) that they are playing this year with any benefit of anything that they may or may not get found by CAS to have taken. If CAS finds against them then it is from that time that any additional suspension (they have already done some self-imposed "just in case") would occur. And they did not win any GF during the time it is suggested by ASADA/WADA they breached the rules.

 

[Countrypie]

hypothetically I think it might come down to the nature of the penalty, should a guilty finding result in bans commencing after the final perhaps it wouldn't matter what had been won, but if they're backdated bans maybe awards are stripped as technically they occured in a period when they were ineligible.

who knows too many hypotheticals, one thing though if its up the afl discretion I'd put my money on no action

Best thing for television....

 

[Crankyhawk]

I'm thinking that would probably be the case as well with Monfries/Ryder stripped of their medals. It would make for an interesting scenario though, but no doubt the AFL would come to some kind of compromised solution which would please no one and offend all.

Would depend on who port beat. If they beat hawthorn, essendon or dogs in gf port would keep flag. If however they beat freo, or Sydney, or GWs I'd expect the flag to be stripped and given off to the other team.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Essendon: stripped, stripped, stripped. Brownlows, premierships, Norm Smiths, the lot. Any time between 2012 and the end of any potential guilty verdict/suspension. Hell, they should wipe their own BnFs from the records too (not fair to Zaharakis et al who werent potentially doped).

Port/Doggies....good question...you stumped me.

 

[jerry springer]

essendon would get stripped of the title if they won this year

Ryder and Monfries would get stripped of their premiership medal if Port won

 

[Ultimatt]

I'd be fine with them keeping it, even though I still think they have performance benefits today from that program (Essentially an extra preseason under their belt). The offense happened over 3 years ago, if they were caught then and got a max 2 year ban they'd be eligible to play this year.

 

[compact72]

eh they won't win it, but if they do make it, they should keep their position.

they were cleared to play because of the tribunal, so you can't really take it away from them. would be a bit too harsh

perhaps draft penalties, jobes brownlow and another fine including the players bans are more than enough.

 

[neutralguy]

A lot of the storm players never got overpaid in the NRL salary cap breaching but Storm were stripped of all grandfinals in that period

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I'm sure the AFL will be right on it ..... at the appropriate juncture ...... in due course ........ in the fullness of time ......... the moment they understand what the question is, they'll be all over it ........ possibly.

 

[TigerTime3]

They would keep their premiership and their medals of course. Otherwise it's double punishment.

IN THE EVENT OF A GUILTY VERDICT:

2012 - Strip everything, ineligible for everything
2013, 2014 & 2015 - free to play like everyone else
2016 & 2017 - banned

Why?

- There's no drugs in their system now
- They're currently eligible to play
- if found guilty in October, their punishment would occur over the following year or two from this date... so you can't punish them in the future while also stripping away their achievements from the past (when clean), unless the past was during the drug-cheating year (so Jobe's Brownlow DOES go to Cotchin and Mitchell on a guilty verdict).

2015 is fair game for Essendon and Port.

 

[TigerTime3]

A lot of the storm players never got overpaid in the NRL salary cap breaching but Storm were stripped of all grandfinals in that period

Yeah they were part of a cheating team so of course they can't keep any team awards. Individual awards they can keep.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I'd be fine with them keeping it, even though I still think they have performance benefits today from that program (Essentially an extra preseason under their belt). The offense happened over 3 years ago, if they were caught then and got a max 2 year ban they'd be eligible to play this year.

I disagree I would think they should get stripped if they were to win anything (players or EFC) but couldn't say whether that would happen or not.

Does anyone know if there's a precedent in other team sports? Obviously Olympians have been stripped of medals and Armstrong lost his Tour De France trophies but I assume it is at the discretion of the governing body?

 

[mxett]

we've got as much chance of winning the flag this year as WADA have of getting Dank to testify in Switzerland

 

[Muggs]

Nothing will happen it's the players being suspended not EFC. Pretty sure the AFL said in the lead up to the tribunal that if the players were found guilty there be no further action against EFC.

To do it at the AFL level would also mean doing it for any team in a lower league that happens to have an ex EFC player playing for them so could affect multiple teams at different levels.

Don't forget the case of the Aussie commonwealth game guy who got pinged (name slips my mind) and was allowed to keep his medals due to the timing, that one went to CAS. Doubt it be any different for EFC.

 

[pie machine]

HaHa no chance ,just not good enough to win a finals game let alone the grand final (still laughing)

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yeah I realise Essendon would need a miracle, it was more thinking about the potential impact on Port although they're not going too flash at the moment either...