Play Nice Héritier Lumumba blasts Collingwood's racist treatment of him during his career (Civil discussion please)

[JMarra]

I'm sure Pendleburys basketball background will help him evade these allegations.

 

[kaiserchief13]

... By telling them not to be racist?

Gee we have ourselves a stalemate going on here.

No that's not what he's saying, he's telling them to actively protest against racism, not just do nothing about it and live their lives

 

[Muddiemoose]

Who does he think he is trying to tell others what to do/how to act? If he experienced racism that is not right, but how dare he think he is above everyone and can instruct them how to live their lives

All he’s done is ask for a formal apology and for everyone to be more aware of what they they and others say and do because it can negatively impact and allow casual racism to continue unchecked

Seems pretty fair and reasonable to me

 

[perplexed]

Oh stop it. It has been debunked by economists and honest feminists for years. It is against the law to pay someone less for doing the exact same job as another person based upon their race, creed or gender. If what you say is true answer the following question. Why isn't every business hiring women over men? They could make a considerable profit given the "fact" that they can pay their employees 75 cents for every dollar spent on a man? No proponent of the claim that the gender wage gap is related to "gender" rather than choice has ever answered this question.

the gender pay gap factual feminsist - Search Videos

www.bing.com

I love the old- I didn't read beyond that line cause it was obviously crap has been used so often when I present irrefutable facts about the way in which men are overwhelmingly the disaffected demographic in so many areas. If it wasn't for the endless trumpeting of women as oppressed victims I on forums I would never raise the issues. How ironic that you talk about my stance being "demonstrably ignorant" when every reputable economist smashes the pay gap myth with facts.

America's Gender Pay Gap Is A Myth | National Economics Editorial

America's gender pay gap is a myth, and nothing more. This article breaks down the statistics and logic, and shows the real reasons for gender inequality.

nationaleconomicseditorial.com

I get the " he's trotting out the old talking points " when I mention men's disadvantages but "trotting out the endless feminist whines based upon myths and half truths is apparently perfectly acceptable.

Anyone who advocates for men will always get shut down, mocked or pushed back my the majority. Most men and women cannot abide hearing about anything but women's "suffering" and the obstacles they face and it will always be that way. Pointing out male disadvantage does not earn pats on the back or make the person doing it feel all warm and fuzzy inside. The gender empathy gap is the biggest of all gaps in our society.

Yes. Clearly you are the 'real' victim here.

 

[Oraaaaazio]

There are so many disappointing responses in here, way too many to respond to.. flippant disregard for racism "yeah racism is bad but he's a flog" or "racism sucks but this isn't racism" type responses.

Many people fail to identify that they're racist themselves and wash their hands of it "I'm not racist, not my problem, the end" and it's a problem.

I have many family members the same who absolutely hate being challenged on it. "Get over it" "what's it got to do with racism?" "get a thicker skin" "it's nothing to do with the colour of your skin you're just a flog" "where's my white privilege??" etc. etc. - what part of what Lumumba is saying do you not agree with? Maybe he is a flog but does that make what he says invalid? How is calling him Chimp ok? How is it ok to criticise him for standing up against something that is clearly wrong?

Growing up I was a racist/homophobe/sexist/bigot, I picked up a lot of my views at the time from family/friends/other people around me where I lived but part of growing as a person is challenging your views, it can be uncomfortable but do some research and reading. What is white privilege? How does it work? Read up on why things you don't think are racist (golliwogs, black face etc.) are racist. Put in some effort to find out about this stuff and if your opinion doesn't change then that's disappointing imo but at the end of the day it's up to you & at least you have a greater understanding of the other side. Educate yourself on it, most people don't bother. You don't need to call someone a racial slur to be a racist. See how you can be better and don't allow yourself to stand by and let stuff like what happened with Heritier happen. If you just brush this sort of thing off as lefty or SJW crap like I used to then that's a problem, stop and think about it for a minute and you might learn something.

 

[Choogler]

Racial vilification should not be tolerated but I don't think HL realises how easy he had it thanks to people before him like Winmar and co who laid the groundwork for those who followed, and thank god that every player who was racially vilified hasn't allowed it to define the rest of their life as HL seems to be allowing it to define his. There are many who were far harshly treated that have moved on with their lives.
I would point at someone like Chris Lewis who copped as much vicious and incessant racial abuse on field as anyone who ever played the game, to the point that it almost destroyed his career. If anyone has a case to argue he does, but you don't see him playing the victim and I've never once heard him raise the matter or seek apologies from anyone since he finished playing.

Lewis had a choice to make, and he chose to move on and make a life for himself and HL can continue to play the victim or move on and have a good life.... it's his choice. If he chooses to continue being the victim, please don't bore us with your story.

 

[SherbertLemon]

There’s so many layers of victim insults in here that I’m struggling to keep track. Can we please make a spreadsheet to identify the current victim.

 

[Wackajack]

So who called him a chimp?

Mick Malthouse....oh wait 'H' had a good relationship with him so those 7 years were forgiven.

 

[DapperJong]

Growing up I was a racist/homophobe/sexist/bigot

Same. And yeah it felt like I was being attacked when called on it because I didn't think I was doing any harm at all. It is amazing what a tiny amount of self reflection and listening can do.

 

[madrigal]

How is it self loathing when I'm not a straight white male?

Because of the common humanity.

 

[raskolnikov]

Because of the common humanity.

How very ironic.

 

[SherbertLemon]

Same. And yeah it felt like I was being attacked when called on it because I didn't think I was doing any harm at all. It is amazing what a tiny amount of self reflection and listening can do.

Good on you for not being racist man.
That’s great, in full sincerity.

Now, in that self reflection, what’s your opinion on sarcastic statements like ‘straight white men have it so tough’.

How is it different to hearing shit like ‘black men be obeying the law’ or any other awful racial assumption?

Is it different? I’m curious, not having a go.

 

[Woody15]

Oh stop it. It has been debunked by economists and honest feminists for years. It is against the law to pay someone less for doing the exact same job as another person based upon their race, creed or gender. If what you say is true answer the following question. Why isn't every business hiring women over men? They could make a considerable profit given the "fact" that they can pay their employees 75 cents for every dollar spent on a man? No proponent of the claim that the gender wage gap is related to "gender" rather than choice has ever answered this question.

the gender pay gap factual feminsist - Search Videos

www.bing.com

I love the old- I didn't read beyond that line cause it was obviously crap has been used so often when I present irrefutable facts about the way in which men are overwhelmingly the disaffected demographic in so many areas. If it wasn't for the endless trumpeting of women as oppressed victims I on forums I would never raise the issues. How ironic that you talk about my stance being "demonstrably ignorant" when every reputable economist smashes the pay gap myth with facts.

America's Gender Pay Gap Is A Myth | National Economics Editorial

America's gender pay gap is a myth, and nothing more. This article breaks down the statistics and logic, and shows the real reasons for gender inequality.

nationaleconomicseditorial.com

I get the " he's trotting out the old talking points " when I mention men's disadvantages but "trotting out the endless feminist whines based upon myths and half truths is apparently perfectly acceptable.

Anyone who advocates for men will always get shut down, mocked or pushed back my the majority. Most men and women cannot abide hearing about anything but women's "suffering" and the obstacles they face and it will always be that way. Pointing out male disadvantage does not earn pats on the back or make the person doing it feel all warm and fuzzy inside. The gender empathy gap is the biggest of all gaps in our society.

Does denouncing Heritier's claims of racism at the club because you saw him dancing on stage for 5 minutes at a jumper presentation fall under the category of 'irrefutable facts' or 'emphatic evidence' as you like to stake your arguments on?

 

[DapperJong]

Good on you for not being racist man.
That’s great, in full sincerity.

Now, in that self reflection, what’s your opinion on sarcastic statements like ‘straight white men have it so tough’.

How is it different to hearing shit like ‘black men be obeying the law’ or any other awful racial assumption?

Is it different? I’m curious, not having a go.

Firstly I'm sure I am racist to a degree.

To answer your question directly, Rask's post was in response to the red pill guy who was doing some serious cherry picking and who I don't think understands what marginilisation actually means. So not sure why you didn't have issue with any of that, or the plainly racist views in this thread.

That post in isolation of course isn't quite correct and I think everyone acknowledges that some straight white men don't have it easy in life. However, they have been enjoying basic human rights (like voting) longer than anyone else in this country and everyone else is doing a little catch up. I think some straight white men are struggling with this and feeling left out. And I think that's fair enough if some personal circumstances aren't great to begin with.

 

[Baird]

Please stop, it's embarrassing.

Who cares which 'group' has it the hardest/easiest?

People who want to create friction between those groups

 

[Leviathan Pie]

So no call-out of Malthouse?

This would seem like a personal vendetta from Lumumba. The issue was dead & buried years ago, dealt with (see Lumumba's comments at the time/even Copeland speech).

Racism isn't to be tolerated @ any point. This simply seems a situation of someone attempting to remain relevant and essentially leverage the divide that is continuing to widen in society in this current climate to push an agenda.

There's plenty of really good work thats going on right now to correct a number of wrongs from the past - I just really don't feel like this helps though.

Maybe its just me?

 

[madrigal]

However, they have been enjoying basic human rights (like voting) longer than anyone else in this country and everyone else is doing a little catch up.

That would only be relevant if you treat racial members as fungible. If a black person drops $50 are you happy to hand it to the first black person you see?

 

[giskard]

Héritier Lumumba has called out the AFL, and Collingwood Football Club (In particular Eddie Maguire and Nathan Buckley) after he was condemned by the club for speaking out against Maguire's racist comments in 2013. He also speaks of a racist nickname he had from 2005 to 2013 as well as using hallucinogens to cope with anxiety and the distress that had arrived from said comments. He has said that neither Collingwood or the AFL had the capacity or the desire to deal with the concerns that he brought up.


It's a horrible look for Collingwood and very very disappointing that something like this happened and that it was ignored by both the club and the league

Collingwood, the AFL, and other clubs who've done similar things need to come out an apologize unreservedly to these people and pay compensation.

 

[the harry]

Racial vilification should not be tolerated but I don't think HL realises how easy he had it thanks to people before him like Winmar and co who laid the groundwork for those who followed, and thank god that every player who was racially vilified hasn't allowed it to define the rest of their life as HL seems to be allowing it to define his. There are many who were far harshly treated that have moved on with their lives.
I would point at someone like Chris Lewis who copped as much vicious and incessant racial abuse on field as anyone who ever played the game, to the point that it almost destroyed his career. If anyone has a case to argue he does, but you don't see him playing the victim and I've never once heard him raise the matter or seek apologies from anyone since he finished playing.

Lewis had a choice to make, and he chose to move on and make a life for himself and HL can continue to play the victim or move on and have a good life.... it's his choice. If he chooses to continue being the victim, please don't bore us with your story.

He's trying to make it that others don't have to endure what those who came before him did or anything like it.

The idea that he's doing this only for himself is crazy. He's speaking out, at least in part, so that the next generation don't have to deal with racism or at least can be comforted in knowing they're not alone when someone throws a banana at them over the fence like Betts or they get racial abuse on social media like Liam Ryan.

 

[DapperJong]

That would only be relevant if you treat racial members as fungible. If a black person drops $50 are you happy to hand it to the first black person you see?

This doesn't really relate to what I was saying at all.

 

[madrigal]

This doesn't really relate to what I was saying at all.

So you agree that an 18 year old black person and an 18 year old white person have both been prevented from voting for the exact same amount of time, so there is no catching up to do.

 

[giskard]

So no call-out of Malthouse?

This would seem like a personal vendetta from Lumumba. The issue was dead & buried years ago, dealt with (see Lumumba's comments at the time/even Copeland speech).

Racism isn't to be tolerated @ any point. This simply seems a situation of someone attempting to remain relevant and essentially leverage the divide that is continuing to widen in society in this current climate to push an agenda.

There's plenty of really good work thats going on right now to correct a number of wrongs from the past - I just really don't feel like this helps though.

Maybe its just me?

I think it's just you? Just saying... I think Lumumba's issues were never adequately addressed. So until they are Lumumba has a right to bring the up. So when will they be adequately addressed? Lumumba will probably have and should have the final say on that.

 

[Oraaaaazio]

There are so many disappointing responses in here, way too many to respond to.. flippant disregard for racism "yeah racism is bad but he's a flog" or "racism sucks but this isn't racism" type responses.

Many people fail to identify that they're racist themselves and wash their hands of it "I'm not racist, not my problem, the end" and it's a problem.

I have many family members the same who absolutely hate being challenged on it. "Get over it" "what's it got to do with racism?" "get a thicker skin" "it's nothing to do with the colour of your skin you're just a flog" "where's my white privilege??" etc. etc. - what part of what Lumumba is saying do you not agree with? Maybe he is a flog but does that make what he says invalid? How is calling him Chimp ok? How is it ok to criticise him for standing up against something that is clearly wrong?

Growing up I was a racist/homophobe/sexist/bigot, I picked up a lot of my views at the time from family/friends/other people around me where I lived but part of growing as a person is challenging your views, it can be uncomfortable but do some research and reading. What is white privilege? How does it work? Read up on why things you don't think are racist (golliwogs, black face etc.) are racist. Put in some effort to find out about this stuff and if your opinion doesn't change then that's disappointing imo but at the end of the day it's up to you & at least you have a greater understanding of the other side. Educate yourself on it, most people don't bother. You don't need to call someone a racial slur to be a racist. See how you can be better and don't allow yourself to stand by and let stuff like what happened with Heritier happen. If you just brush this sort of thing off as lefty or SJW crap like I used to then that's a problem, stop and think about it for a minute and you might learn something.

Cotchins Hair Piece

you disliked this post, what part of it could you possibly disagree with? You don't think it's racist calling him a chimp? or don't think people should be educated on racism & what is bad about it/how they contribute to racism or otherwise? or just don't like being called out for being apathetic toward racism?

People are arguing all through this thread but so far I have not seen one person address what is wrong with what Heritier has done. Is what he experienced not racism? "he's a flog/w***er/dickhead" isn't an excuse or explanation. It's weak as piss IMO to not give any legitimate reasoning for your thoughts.

 

[DapperJong]

So you agree that an 18 year old black person and an 18 year old white person have both been prevented from voting for the exact same amount of time, so there is no catching up to do.

Nope.

Policy determined by those who held voting power over the years has had a lasting effect. See gay marriage which has only just become legal.

Women's suffrage, segregation, etc, I could go on all day.

The tide is slowly turning and I'm sure you agree that's a good thing.

 

[NoobPie]

Just because it's not your definition of explicitly malicious doesn't mean it's ok. It's still inherently racist and it's still very messed up.

Anyone with a functioning moral reasoning is able to discern between casual racism and the malicious and violent kind

It doesn't make either OK. Saying murder is worse than assault is not to say assault is OK.

I'm taking what he says in this statement as true. As he says at the bottom of the statement, 3 of his former teammates and an outsider have confirmed that his "testimony of the nicknames and the jokes are true"

4 of his former teammates have apparently publicly validated he was called Chimp. Apparently this was by his closer mates at the club btw. They have not validated his broader characterisation that his time at Collingwood was one of unhappy victimisation

Those were the fans not the club. The incident is absolutely disgusting and the club quickly condemned it in a statement. It's despicable. Said fans faced criminal action and received bans from attending games from Chelsea. Source

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ll-fans-convicted-of-racist-violence-in-paris

But this was the club.

Chelsea racism allegations: four more players to take legal action against club

Another four former Chelsea academy players are taking legal action against the club over racist abuse they allege they were subjected to by the coaches Graham Rix and Gwyn Williams

www.theguardian.com

Not guys in the early 20s making un PC jokes abou their mates in their early 20s. This is coaches in their 40s racially victimising teenagers.

What a disgusting cesspool of racism your russian oligarch owned soccer business is

Héritier is claiming that the abuse came from inside the club. From his teammates and staff at the club. He also claims that he hasn't received a proper apology from the club. Regardless of if things have changed, he deserves a proper apology from his teammates and the club.

Or his narcissism has led him to characterise his falling out with friends and the club as being the result of relentless racial abuse when it was nothing of the sort.

 

[ShanDog]

The Cryptkeeper kaiserchief13 The discuss about gender pay difference doesn't belong here. Please take it to an appropriate thread on the SRP. Stick to the topic thanks.