List Mgmt. Hard decisions

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In all seriousness, I think the current situation with OOC players is:

Bellchambers: 2 year deal/leave via FA
Chappy: retire
Stanton: 2 year deal
Winderlich: retire
O'Brien: delisted
Baguley: 2 year deal
Dempsey: 2 year deal/go home via FA
Pears: delist
Melksham: 2 year deal
J Merrett: 2 year deal
Carlisle: 4 year deal/leave
Browne: 1 year deal/delist
Steinberg: delist
Kavanagh: 1 year deal/delist
Fletcher: retire
Long: 1 year deal
Dalgleish: 1-2 year deal
Hams: 1 year deal/delist
Gwilt: 1 year deal
Aylett: 1-2 year deal
McKernan: 1-2 year deal (promote)
Fantasia: 1-2 year deal

Right now with the 50/50's I'm thinking:

Retire: Chappy, Licha, Fletch
Leave: Carlisle (unfortunately), Dempsey
Delist: O'Brien, Pears, Browne, Steinberg, Hams

That's 10 out (one rookie), McKernan and possibly Aylett promotion, leaving 7 draft picks/trade targets (6 if we manage 1st round pick + player deal for Carlisle).
 
eth-dog said:
Why, because you have a hard time dealing with it? There's a very real possibility that he does.
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I wonder what contingency plans they have in place this year for the process leading up to his signing or leaving? If he clicks as a forward then perhaps that solves it although we might have to pay more to keep him as a forward than we would as a defender given that its not his preference? If he doesn't click in the next 4 or 5 weeks then they will have to move to an emergency plan in order to keep him. At that point I think they will have to sit down with him and guarantee a place in defense next year and potentially have a chat to Fletch? He is gone otherwise...
FWIW i think he almost has clicked and it's 90% delivery that is the issue right now. Trouble is that if we don't improve delivery then he will lose confidence again and we will be back at square one which will result in him leaving. We really are at a crucial moment for the clubs future.
If he leaves i reckon we will see him play a couple of seasons in defense before returning to the swing man role where he will be one of the best players in the comp. It's a nightmare outcome for the club...
 
Unfortunately I can't think of one solid reason why he'd stay, if leaving is an option he's considering.
Not really a list management question, but is next year Hirds last year of his contract, or the year after?
 
Next year is Hird's last year.
 
The continued improvement of Colyer and Z Merrett should see our midfield run be much better next year. Zerrett needs another year to really take off.

If we can add a Fantasia or J Merrett to the mix than we may be better than we think. A fit Zaka, Hocking and Myers would round out a pretty good midfield with enough depth.

We can then give more games to Langford and Laverde rotating off half forward. Gives us a much better balanced side with a lot more run.

If we can jag another midfielder in the trade period then we can really be set.
 
Atavistic said:
Is it just me who'd like to see NOB in the firsts? He hasn't really been given a chance in the AFL, whereas someone like Melksham has been given years to show his worth and is still an average AFL player. With Myers and Hocking out it would make sense to give him a shot in the guts, especially considering how poorly we're doing in the clearances. Unfortunately, I have to qualify this post by saying that I haven't seen NOB play this year.
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I agree. His best is better.

My recollection of Hird's first 100 is not great but I'd say Fyfe's first 100 has probably been better.
 
BrunoV said:
I agree. His best is better.

My recollection of Hird's first 100 is not great but I'd say Fyfe's first 100 has probably been better.
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Sorry Bruno but my recollection of Hirdy's first 100 is pretty good. Especially his first real year in 93 when he played 16 games averaged 2 goals a game 6 marks and 16 possessions. He had games of 6, 4, 4,3, 3 goals. He was an instant champion.

He played more half forward than midfield those days and was getting 20 odd touches and 8 marks a games. and and 39 and 47 goals in his 4th and 5th years.

Almost impossible to compare guys as the game is so different these days.

I also recall when Ablett was going nuts and Sheeds put Hird back there. Hird won a few contests and started to curtail him but the juggernaut was already on a roll and he got a few on him.

The only thing comparable is the fact that these guys stick out from there peers as being much better than the rest at the same point in time.
 

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The thread doesnt relate hard decisions to guys like Steinberg, Hams, NOB, Kav, Pears, Browne. They are easy decisions.

The hard decisions will come in the way of Stanton, Dempsey and Hocking this year. There the type of guys maybe preventing the development of youngsters who are getting on and past their best. I think we potentially need to ser what we cant get for these type of players. A few handy 2nd round draft picks could be the boost we need if we can nail a couple. At the moment these guys just arent getting us to where we need to be and signing them up for 2 more years each could put us in a bad position in 2 years time with our list.

Those included with the turnover of Licha, Chap and fletcher could rejuvenate the list a little and make it look far younger and quicker.
 
Ambrosia said:
He is contracted I think but with Stewart looking the goods he may look to move for more opportunity. He would be a great fit as a hard running CHF
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Check my thread on the D&T board.
 
Keystone agony said:
The thread doesnt relate hard decisions to guys like Steinberg, Hams, NOB, Kav, Pears, Browne. They are easy decisions.

The hard decisions will come in the way of Stanton, Dempsey and Hocking this year. There the type of guys maybe preventing the development of youngsters who are getting on and past their best. I think we potentially need to ser what we cant get for these type of players. A few handy 2nd round draft picks could be the boost we need if we can nail a couple. At the moment these guys just arent getting us to where we need to be and signing them up for 2 more years each could put us in a bad position in 2 years time with our list.

Those included with the turnover of Licha, Chap and fletcher could rejuvenate the list a little and make it look far younger and quicker.
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I agree with you regards Stants and the like. I would add Howlett to that list as well.

Also there is hard decisions to take regards NOB and the like because we can't cut them all.

I would like to see cut half from each. The hard decisions are that we can't just rate them as footballers and drop the worst. As they are all fringe players you have to rate them on what potential role they could play at the club. So for example Browne has shown a lot more than NOB but we may keep NOB over Browne became he is seen as potential depth for tagger and we have so much depth at half back already. Further to that Browne may be of interest to a club with surplus small forwards and packaged with 2nd round pick get the job done.

I really think we need to rotate these guys through the team. I don't get why Ashby is rated ahead of others, like Kav, and I even think that Gleeson could play a game or two in VFL so that he can have roles with more responsibility. Even Daniher.

Further to that it can be part of their development plan that they have heavy weeks in the gym and play 70% in VFL.

Rotating the players through makes Dodoro's jib easier and players who may be fringe at Essendon can play a role at Carlton or Saints to cover kids in a rebuild.

I think we can cut one or two of Howlett and his brigade and bring in a FA with more impact to cover him and retirements. We can cut 3to 4 of the young fringe too.

8 new list spots says one FA, 3 good kids, 1 rookie upgrade and the rest can be speculative picks or trades for young fringe like Edwards or Aylett (that type could pay off like Josh Bruce).
 
Keystone agony said:
The thread doesnt relate hard decisions to guys like Steinberg, Hams, NOB, Kav, Pears, Browne. They are easy decisions.

The hard decisions will come in the way of Stanton, Dempsey and Hocking this year. There the type of guys maybe preventing the development of youngsters who are getting on and past their best. I think we potentially need to ser what we cant get for these type of players. A few handy 2nd round draft picks could be the boost we need if we can nail a couple. At the moment these guys just arent getting us to where we need to be and signing them up for 2 more years each could put us in a bad position in 2 years time with our list.

Those included with the turnover of Licha, Chap and fletcher could rejuvenate the list a little and make it look far younger and quicker.
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Agree, the hard choices are with those you mentioned and as Fish said Howlett but it also relates to a few of our top line players.
The problem we have all our best midfielders are slow and if we bring Myers and Hocking back in then we are still slow. It is a serious problem.
We are simply too one paced and if we can not hang onto the ball or play on quickly then we are in big trouble.
Run and spread side kill us.

At this stage Hocking still has a place IMO because he is still the only bloke who can run with anyone , play hard ball, do the team stuff and be a little creative when he gets it. You could argue this should not be the case but no one coming through can do it. Melksham is trying hard but he simply does not have the same effect.

Then we get to Myers, very very good player but the same in a lot of ways as Heppell and Jobe other than he kicks it further on the left.
So what do we do ?
The bloke is a good player, probably replaces Howlett in the current side but still gives us a one paced midfield.
That is the hard decision right there and there are plenty of arguments both ways.

Another hard choice, Zaka, for a bloke in the leadership group he plays uninspiring footy, the only time he looked fast is when a goal is on offer,
he has zero defensive run and just trundles along when we have not got the ball. If he gets a tag he is out of the game and i am not sure he
even knows the word Sheppard.

The hard choice will be weeding out the blokes who do not want to play team footy and that goes right to the top. I would not for a minute entertain
getting rid of Jobe but he is also a part of the problem along with Goddard. The go in hard, they lead to a degree they tackle when they can but it is all
in an attacking sort of way. How often do you see either sheppard for their team mates ? For i bloke his side Jobe really does not show a lot of
physical effort at times. Goddard will bump but spends more time waving his arms than playing footy at times which brings us to Heppell another gun who wont shirk the issue but for some reason protecting his team mates in not in his play book and like Goddard thinks waving your arms and directing is leadership.

Today showed what we need. A young Cooney . Outside pace. Kicks goals and when in space uses the ball bloody well.

As a side we just don't do enough team stuff, we do not work hard enough in non possessions time, we do not really play a physical brand of footy.
Our leaders do not always put everything on the line for the side. That is the big problem.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Stanton???

God haters give it up
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Haters or frustrated viewers ?
Todays game sums up where i am at with Stants, he played very well, did some bloody elite stuff, stood under the footy and got smashed and got up.
And then he does the E grade stuff like running past calling for the ball with 2 players directly in front of him, hand balling to blokes surrounded by opposition players and rather than blocking he runs by looking for a cheap stat.
Then there was s**t defensive efforts when he had to defend on Green and kept sagging off him trying to get someone else to do it. Yes he may not have been his man but when you have to defend for the side for 5 minutes then bloody well do it and let the coach sort out the match ups.
The bloke would be an A grade star if he cut the latter crap out of his game.
And i agree he was one of our best today and did some wonderful stuff as well.
 
ant555 said:
Agree, the hard choices are with those you mentioned and as Fish said Howlett but it also relates to a few of our top line players.
The problem we have all our best midfielders are slow and if we bring Myers and Hocking back in then we are still slow. It is a serious problem.
We are simply too one paced and if we can not hang onto the ball or play on quickly then we are in big trouble.
Run and spread side kill us.

At this stage Hocking still has a place IMO because he is still the only bloke who can run with anyone , play hard ball, do the team stuff and be a little creative when he gets it. You could argue this should not be the case but no one coming through can do it. Melksham is trying hard but he simply does not have the same effect.

Then we get to Myers, very very good player but the same in a lot of ways as Heppell and Jobe other than he kicks it further on the left.
So what do we do ?
The bloke is a good player, probably replaces Howlett in the current side but still gives us a one paced midfield.
That is the hard decision right there and there are plenty of arguments both ways.

Another hard choice, Zaka, for a bloke in the leadership group he plays uninspiring footy, the only time he looked fast is when a goal is on offer,
he has zero defensive run and just trundles along when we have not got the ball. If he gets a tag he is out of the game and i am not sure he
even knows the word Sheppard.

The hard choice will be weeding out the blokes who do not want to play team footy and that goes right to the top. I would not for a minute entertain
getting rid of Jobe but he is also a part of the problem along with Goddard. The go in hard, they lead to a degree they tackle when they can but it is all
in an attacking sort of way. How often do you see either sheppard for their team mates ? For i bloke his side Jobe really does not show a lot of
physical effort at times. Goddard will bump but spends more time waving his arms than playing footy at times which brings us to Heppell another gun who wont shirk the issue but for some reason protecting his team mates in not in his play book and like Goddard thinks waving your arms and directing is leadership.

Today showed what we need. A young Cooney . Outside pace. Kicks goals and when in space uses the ball bloody well.

As a side we just don't do enough team stuff, we do not work hard enough in non possessions time, we do not really play a physical brand of footy.
Our leaders do not always put everything on the line for the side. That is the big problem.
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Great post Ant, agree with everything you have written.

You have highlighted our one paced midfield which imo is a big problem, but what are the hard decisions needed to be made to fix it?
 
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