Analysis If Dustin Martin wins a 4th Norm Smith medal and premiership will he be regarded as the greatest player of all time?

[geelong_crazy26]

Probably like a handful of Richmond fans. But nobody would win a poll like this and we don’t know the reaction of an hypothetical 4th norm. If he gets 40 and 5 in the GF or something crazy it would affect how he is seen.

Players who are actually considered GOAT would win it or be close for sure.

If you did a Leigh matthews GOAT or Carey or ablett jnr chat plenty of neutrals would be commenting on its validity and discussing it.

This chat is just disrespectful to Martin as it was always going to become a no and a troll Pitt of a thread. It shouldn’t have been made as he clearly isn’t in that chat.

Would have worked out a lot better if it was a “ who is the best player of the last 10 years thread” or something similar.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

And you don't think that's a very lazy and shallow means of forming a conclusion?

I mean, on that basis, Buckley is miles ahead of Voss, as a result of the Norm Smith Medal he was awarded in 2002, which could have equally been awarded to Voss (in addition to Voss being the key reason Brisbane got over the line in that Grand Final - his last 10 minutes was phenomenal).

So in a nutshell, people will say

Martin, McLeod, hodge are the GOAT…

Yeah nah..

 

[nut]

Dusty isn’t “in” the media lovefest either… never will be.

 

[nut]

So in a nutshell, people will say

Martin, McLeod, hodge are the GOAT…

Yeah nah..

Martin’s 3x normsmith + 3 Gary Ayres + his complete dominance of season in 2017= GOAT

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Martin’s 3x normsmith + 3 Gary Ayres + his complete dominance of season in 2017= GOAT

I get that you and a few of the tigers fans are trolling, as even you guys can’t be that stupid.

I personally would never create a thread like this about a player from my club who is very obviously not in that discussion. Because all I am doing is creating a scenario where my player ends up getting bagged and it turns into a troll fest. Which is all this thread has become.

It takes away from the fact Martin was a very good footy player, and a focus on laughing at the idea of the claim.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Dusty isn’t “in” the media lovefest either… never will be.

He absolutely is. Commentators say he is a great player Al the time. What world are you in?

 

[nut]

Ask any player who has played the game which career they would swap with…

I’d say 90% would want Dustys career … Dustys accolades …

 

[nut]

He absolutely is. Commentators say he is a great player Al the time. What world are you in?

Every week we have a story about Dusty leaving … Dusty spotted having coffee in Sydney, Dusty chop sticks… checking his rubbish … they hounded him about his dad…

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Ask any player who has played the game which career they would swap with…

I’d say 90% would want Dustys career … Dustys accolades …

90% would prefer Michael tucks career… what’s your point?

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Would have worked out a lot better if it was a “ who is the best player of the last 10 years thread” or something similar.

"Who was in the top 3 players of 2017" would be more respectful

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Every week we have a story about Dusty leaving … Dusty spotted having coffee in Sydney, Dusty chop sticks… checking his rubbish … they hounded him about his dad…

Lol pretty standard media. He gets it pretty standard imo, and is talked up for sure by commentators.

Believe it or not I think very highly of Martin and enjoy watching him play. It is just a very wrong thing to claim he is at the level of gaz jnr snr matthews Carey. Which leads to degrading viewpoints put across explaining why instead of his great points sadly

 

[nut]

Lol pretty standard media. He gets it pretty standard imo, and is talked up for sure by commentators.

Believe it or not I think very highly of Martin and enjoy watching him play. It is just a very wrong thing to claim he is at the level of gaz jnr snr matthews Carey. Which leads to degrading viewpoints put across explaining why instead of his great points sadly

Ok so in what year did GAS, Jnr, Mathew’s or Carey have a better season than Dustys 2017… just name 1 season.

 

[projectv]

Every week we have a story about Dusty leaving … Dusty spotted having coffee in Sydney, Dusty chop sticks… checking his rubbish … they hounded him about his dad…

He's a popular guy, the media love to talk about him.

He's also media shy, which is totally fine, but does explain why they hound the guy a lot more than other footballers.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

And you don't think that's a very lazy and shallow means of forming a conclusion?

I mean, on that basis, Buckley is miles ahead of Voss, as a result of the Norm Smith Medal he was awarded in 2002, which could have equally been awarded to Voss (in addition to Voss being the key reason Brisbane got over the line in that Grand Final - his last 10 minutes was phenomenal).

Yep that’s correct. But in terms of GOAT consensus every opinion is equal no matter how uninformed. Like voting in elections.

 

[STPer18]

For me four modern day premierships trumps all the other little trinkets and media-voted awards.

Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

35

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

the GOAT - oh and he's got a Normy too.

 

[H00t]

Ok so in what year did GAS, Jnr, Mathew’s or Carey have a better season than Dustys 2017… just name 1 season.

You’ve stuck your head in the sand and ignored this every time it’s been answered.

But let’s do it one more time. These are seasons that are the same level or better. Mind you I may miss some years.

Matthews 1973-78, 1982-84.
Carey 1993-96, 1998-2000.
GAJ 2007-2014
GAS 1985, 1988-90, 1992-95.

Notice there’s one thing here, it’s that these guys performed at a level that is at worst at or above Martin’s best for years at a time not just 1 season.

Plus there’s a number of years not included here that would be better than Martin’s next best season.

It’s not a fair comparison to Martin trying to bring him up against these guys.

 

[blaisee]

Ask any player who has played the game which career they would swap with…

I’d say 90% would want Dustys career … Dustys accolades …

90%?



100% who would not want Dustys career?

 

[blaisee]

90% would prefer Michael tucks career… what’s your point?

no way

He is the classic , right place right time guy

Nothing elite about him other than his longevity

 

[JackOutback]

Has anyone had a better season than that? Who?

Plenty. You’re mistaking most awarded with best, while failing to acknowledge the media/umpires/industry has become more about navel gazing and click bait headlines than analysis.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Plenty. You’re mistaking most awarded with best, while failing to acknowledge the media/umpires/industry has become more about navel gazing and click bait headlines than analysis.

The most awarded is the best in the history books. The coaches, umpires, players, AA selectors, NS voters and Club thought he was the best player in H&A, finals and GF. Also won the flag. Doesn’t get better than that and the others never achieved that either.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

FFS.

Lee won more goalkicking awards because the likes of Coventry, Coleman and Lockett weren't playing at the time, in the same manner as Richmond won their 2017, 19 and 20 flags because they didn't have to compete against the likes of 2000/01 Essendon, 2001 to 03 Brisbane, 2007 to 2011 Geelong, 2010/11 Collingwood, 2012 to 2015 Hawthorn, AND 2009/10 ST KILDA.

Don't challenge me, challenge the AFL Team of the Century selectors who were tossing up between Coleman and Coventry for the full forward position.

No need to get angry because I am telling you something you were embarrassed you didn't know already.

Saying Lee won goal kicking awards because Coventry, Coleman and Lockett weren't playing at the time is no more legitimate than saying Coventry won goal kicking awards because Lee, Coleman and Lockett were not playing at the time, what sort of a stupid point is that to hide behind?

The Collingwood Full Forward won 16 VFL goalkicking awards between in the 33 seasons 1907 to 1939. 10 of those were won by full forwards other than Coventry. He won 6 in the 18 seasons he played. Lee and Todd won 10 in the combined 22 seasons they played either side of Coventry, but 10 of 19 seasons where they played Full Forward. So Collingwood's rate of winning these awards was actually slower with Coventry than it was with the players that came before and after him in the role.

No good referring me to TOTC selectors, they didn't pick Coventry, so what would they have to do with anything? They picked Coleman who was a clearly superior player. But you compare Coleman with Todd you get the following:

18yo Todd 4 games not at FF for 6 goals v Coleman not yet playing

19yo Todd 12 games not at FF for 18 goals v Coleman not yet playing

20yo Todd 21 games not at FF for 62 goals of 319 Collingwood scored v Coleman 21 games @ FF for 100 goals of 281 goals Essendon scored.

Coventry retires.

21yo Todd 20 games at FF for 120 goals of 329 Collingwood scored v Coleman 19 games for 120 goals of 310 Essendon scored

22yo Todd 19 games for 121 goals of 318 Collingwood scored v Coleman 16 games for 75 goals of 248 Essendon scored.

We can see pretty clearly here Todd was on Coleman's level. As a 21-22 yo Todd scored 241 goals of 647 scored by Collingwood, or 37% of their goals. As a 21-22 yo Coleman scored 195 of 558 Essendon goals or 35% of their goals.

To give you an idea where G Coventry was at as a 21 & 22 yo....

21yo 13 games for 36 of Collingwood's 159 goals(Coventry missed 3 games of this season.) Roughly 27% of Collingwood's goals in the games in which Coventry played.

22yo 14 games for 28 of Collingwood's 148 goals(Coventry missed 2 games this season) Roughly 21% of the goals scored by Collingwood int he games Coventry played.

Coleman was finished at 25, tragically due to a knee injury. He had scored 100+ goals 3 times and a 97. It is highly likely he would have only become better.

Todd played only 2 years at Full Forward, kicking 120+ both times and had he carried on playing Full Forward for Collingwood it is a virtual certainty we would have been seen as the best Full Forward ever or at least the equal to Coleman.

Finals:

Coventry 31 games 111 goals @ 3.6 per game.

Coleman 6 games 24 goals @ 4 per game(only 1 final past 21 years old)

Todd 4 games at CHF for 10 goals. 7 games at FF for 45 goals @ 6.4 per game.

Todd would likely have been paid under 100 pounds per season at Collingwood. He got roughly 600 pounds per year at Williamstown. An average has at the time cost about 2000 pounds.

Ron Todd was definitely the best Full Forward to play for Collingwood. He was possibly(probably imo) the best Full Forward ever to play in the competition, Todd or Coleman or Hudson or Pratt or Lockett.

How you could rate Coventry in the best 15 players in the history of the game baffles me. He was not the best player in his family, not the best Full Forward of his era, not the best Collingwood Full Forward and possibly not even in the top 2.

 

[nut]

Plenty. You’re mistaking most awarded with best, while failing to acknowledge the media/umpires/industry has become more about navel gazing and click bait headlines than analysis.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Ok let’s take the awards away for a sec, if you have one spot left in the team and you were going to play a GF or cutthroat final where the stakes are at their highest. Would you pick Dusty, Pendles or GAJ?

I think most people would pick Dusty and that pretty much sums it up.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Ok let’s take the awards away for a sec, if you have one spot left in the team and you were going to play a GF or cutthroat final where the stakes are at their highest. Would you pick Dusty, Pendles or GAJ?

I think most people would pick Dusty and that pretty much sums it up.

Agreed. Dusty easily ahead of most others if picking a team for a GF. Or finals.

That’s not however how to judge a GOAT. He’s in the conversation for GOAT finals player. Not in the conversation for a H&A GOAT.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Agreed. Dusty easily ahead of most others if picking a team for a GF. Or finals.

That’s not however how to judge a GOAT. He’s in the conversation for GOAT finals player. Not in the conversation for a H&A GOAT.

I was referring to just finals in this case but yeah I agree.

But it’s interesting that people would rather pick Dusty over their GOAT for the most important game of the year. Sounds a little weird doesn’t it.