Review Is our forward line dysfunctional?

[smcateer]

We have the cattle (average goals per game):

• Gumbleton (2.75)
• Crameri (2.67)
• Davey (2.00)
• Hurley (1.60)

+ the usual cast of mids who can kick goals. That makes for a very intimidating forward line - on paper. But I definitely don't get the feeling that we make defenders' blood run cold.

Why is this? Do you agree with point 1 here? "... when the three [tall forwards] don't quite work in sync, the Bombers can be susceptible to rebound."

The way I see it, the forward line is simply a shambles. (Now it is just hours after our first loss, so maybe I'm losing the plot a bit, but bear with me.)

As a sport we are a long way past the days of leading out of a goal square and booting 10+ in a game. But as chaotic as footy fields are nowadays, good forward-lines manipulate zones and back-line structures to open avenues to goal (often for invading midfielders or crumbers). Talls are valuable not just for their raw scoring power, but because they demand defenders' attention and tear holes in a zone. I don't think we are expertly exploiting this nearly enough.

Here are my questions:

• Are we all that dysfunctional?
• If not, what is the evidence of this? (At the the current rate, the Matthew Lloyd trophy is looking to be on offer for the princely sum of 40-odd majors.)
• If so, what are the fixes?

P.S. Yes, this has all been a subtle ploy to get Lloyd back to the club as a forward-line coach.

 

[Nasty Penguin]

Davey is a CHF

 

[The Derp]

+1 Absolutely a shambles. Has been for quite some time.

Crameri: Has kicked 10 of his 16 goals against Melbourne and GWS. Seems to have all the makings of a great lead up forward, but whenever the pressure is on and we need people to stand up and reliably kick a couple goals a game, he's nowhere to be found.

Hurley: Thought he was well on the way after the Fremantle game, but after tonight, he's back to square one. Been so messy having him in and out repeatedly. Think it's hampered both his confidence and the sync of the forward structure.

Gumby: So tricky to call. On one hand, he can take marks and kick goals. Which is what you want a forward to do right? But his speed and condition is still so far behind AFL standard. Painful to watch the big fella trudge after his opponents at times.

Davey: Apparently he's actually a 6"5 key pos full forward...he must be considering the way they keep kicking it at him -_-


No idea how to get things running smoother to be honest. There's just such a lack of synergy between the guys. Especially when you compare it to our backline which is now such a well oiled machine.

One thing I do think we are lacking though, is a super quick small with good crumbing/tackling ability. Once upon a time that might have been davey, but he's obviously no where near as fast as he once was. Not sure Jetta is really up to it either.

Considering how much attention is paid to defence, I reckon small forwards are becoming so much more important at converting the crumbs that fall off the big packs. Likewise, need someone fast enough to get to the goal square when we break out of the press.

Some consistency in who we have playing would go a long way too. Ongoing injuries to Cram, Hurls and Gumby have seriously made things very messy.

Then of course there's the JD question. I really want him in for a few soft games, just to see what he can do and how far away he is.

 

[quotemokc]

Obviously it is hard for me to tell how our setup goes watching on TV but it seems the biggest issue is just the delivery going forward.

Too many times tonight we kicked to a contest in our 50 where we were simply outnumbered. A tall forward is never going to contest a ground ball effectively against 2 defenders bar a lucky bounce etc.

 

[yaco55]

Something must be wrong - We are no 1 for points kicked in the AFL.

 

[ZaharakisFTW]

+1 Absolutely a shambles. Has been for quite some time.

Crameri: Has kicked 10 of his 16 goals against Melbourne and GWS. Seems to have all the makings of a great lead up forward, but whenever the pressure is on and we need people to stand up and reliably kick a couple goals a game, he's nowhere to be found.

Hurley: Thought he was well on the way after the Fremantle game, but after tonight, he's back to square one. Been so messy having him in and out repeatedly. Think it's hampered both his confidence and the sync of the forward structure.

Gumby: So tricky to call. On one hand, he can take marks and kick goals. Which is what you want a forward to do right? But his speed and condition is still so far behind AFL standard. Painful to watch the big fella trudge after his opponents at times.

Davey: Apparently he's actually a 6"5 key pos full forward...he must be considering the way they keep kicking it at him -_-


No idea how to get things running smoother to be honest. There's just such a lack of synergy between the guys. Especially when you compare it to our backline which is now such a well oiled machine.

One thing I do think we are lacking though, is a super quick small with good crumbing/tackling ability. Once upon a time that might have been davey, but he's obviously no where near as fast as he once was. Not sure Jetta is really up to it either.

Considering how much attention is paid to defence, I reckon small forwards are becoming so much more important at converting the crumbs that fall off the big packs. Likewise, need someone fast enough to get to the goal square when we break out of the press.

Some consistency in who we have playing would go a long way too. Ongoing injuries to Cram, Hurls and Gumby have seriously made things very messy.

Then of course there's the JD question. I really want him in for a few soft games, just to see what he can do and how far away he is.

stupid post...

we get to 6-0, number 1 for points kicked in the comp, then we play one bad game (against a truly great side) and suddenly were are a "shambles and have been for some time"

Though I did agree with some of your points RE Crameri

 

[rumply]

Something must be wrong - We are no 1 for points kicked in the AFL.

Lol, yes this is the conundrum isnt it? Imagine how effective it could be if operating smoothly, but with so many options up forward, guess it's going to take time work out which setup works the best.

 

[Duckworth]

I dont think the problem is the players. Delivery into the forwardline and players doing selfless running to make space.

 

[Yoda_]

We moved the ball slowly after quarter time. Allowed Geelongs zone to set up which forced our leading types wide or to kick high deep balls (no homo) which played right into the Geelong backs hands.

How good did we look early in the game? The style that allowed us to go 21 points up?

 

[ant555]

First up i am going to say are forward lines in general dysfunctional across the leauge ?
There has been a decline in goal kicking numbers across all sides in the last 5 or 6 years pretty much due to the press and zones.

To us yes we are a bit dysfunctional, blokes flying for the same ball and leading very wide, Gumby still improving, Hurley not being able to kick a set shot goal, Winderlich flying for marks against talls etc but it is not all doom and gloom as when we get it right they look very dangerous.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Our forward line is a bit top heavy.

Gumbleton is a dead duck once the ball hits the ground and doesn't take enough contested marks. Winderlich is underdone and doesn't have the repeat efforts.

Can't get away with that against the Cats. You either need a mobile big man or one that can take pack marks.

As much as we want Gumby to succeed our best forward line is Hurley,Crameri with Ryder/Bellchambers resting down there..

 

[Old Campaigner]

The problem isn't the forward line itself, just the finishing skills. Turn 3-4 of those behinds into goals last night, you give Geelong the ball 3-4 fewer times, and the ball comes to the center where we were ahead of them in clearances. It changes the game in a big way.

 

[table tennis]

Crameri is lazy and gumby not agile when ball hits the ground

 

[Duckworth]

Our forward line is a bit top heavy.

Gumbleton is a dead duck once the ball hits the ground and doesn't take enough contested marks. Winderlich is underdone and doesn't have the repeat efforts.

Can't get away with that against the Cats. You either need a mobile big man or one that can take pack marks.

As much as we want Gumby to succeed our best forward line is Hurley,Crameri with Ryder/Bellchambers resting down there..

I get it, Davey is the CHF and Gumby is the crumbing forward. It's almost like they should be swapped around.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Something must be wrong - We are no 1 for points kicked in the AFL.

Watson 8.10
Howlett 8.2
Stanton 5.4
Goddard 5.4
Myers 3.2
Heppell 3.3
Hocking 3.3
Dempsey 3.2

 

[Murph_S13]

There are certainly problems up forward, but delivery into the forward line is also a problem.

Let's start with delivery. My companion and I sitting in the stands shake our heads in wonder at the number of times the ball is kicked high to Alwyn Davey. The man is five feet tall and the mids bomb it onto his head more often than not. Do they not know he's the shortest bloke on the field?

Right now, the general strategy coming into the forward line appears to be to bomb to the square from 60 or 70 metres. Gumby has shown he can take a contested mark, but doesn't have the physique to hold his space in a large pack (which is what results from a bomb to the square from 60 or 70). Hurley and Crameri (and Gumby for that matter) are much better on the lead than in a wrestle or a pack.

If I can figure this out, you'd think the players and coaches have it figured out as well. So, why are we seeing the same thing week after week?

There was a telling interview of Crameri on SEN after the game. Among other things, he suggested some "other blokes" might need to lead more. He also talked about the Geelong defence reducing opportunities to lead.

The issue might be that the forward lineup has been unsettled and really haven't played that long together as a group. They're still figuring out how they put it all together. Gumby and Winderlich are like new recruits for instance. Contrast that with a more settled backline that are looking more and more accomplished.

Finally, there's the pressure component. It was hot last night. The expectation of physical pressure (and the physical demands of a massively quick end-to-end game) lead to otherwise reliable kicks making mistakes. Who would have thought that Watson would miss two regulation chances in that 3rd quarter, especially after his brilliant last quarter goal against the Barcodes?

It's not panic stations, but I think the forwards and the mids-forwards linking is still a work in progress. There's no doubt Hirdy and Bomber are on the right track!

 

[silk]

I think the problem is as much with the people around them as with the 2 big forwards. Too often they lead into the same area rather then creating a spread. This meant that when the ball came in it was always two or three Geelong players. Davey isn't effective enough at crumbing. He tends to get his scores from marks, tackles and clearances in the forward line. I really feel like dropping both Jetta and Merret was a mistake.

Add to that, we now seem to hate Etihad and better kicking would have made more interesting.

 

[bombermick]

Gumby is reliable for 2-3 goals a game, but as others have said he's a non-factor once the ball hits the ground. Unless he can work on this, then other guys must be chosen ahead of him. However, the more important aspect is how bad we are once the ball hits the deck, as I could count on one hand how many times we won a ground level ball off a pack last night.

 

[Spud Patrol]

Gumby is 202cm tall, can you really expect him to crum that much more? Hes got to take marks at the highest point(which is dose) and either kick goals or spot up a target. As i stated in his thread, Hurley is the big problem at the moment.

 

[smcateer]

FWIWIMHO, Gumby will be dropped this week. Ryder must come in and Jimmy seemed to suggest it was Gumby who kept him out.

The problem isn't the forward line itself, just the finishing skills. Turn 3-4 of those behinds into goals last night, you give Geelong the ball 3-4 fewer times, and the ball comes to the center where we were ahead of them in clearances. It changes the game in a big way.

The effect of this can not be overstated. Against good sides, behinds are basically worth -5 points.

 

[Eleven 38]

it will be interesting to see the structure without Davey, he seems to be the one that pops up every week and takes a few marks inside forward 50.

I think the reason he seems to take marks inside 50 all the time is he seems to get to the right spots, maybe he needs to be the forward line leader and tell the big forwards where to go instead of going there himself.

It definitely needs work, and its easier to work on things when you've just played a game against the best defence in the land. Im sure they will.

 

[DapperDon]

Someone go down to training and tell TRB that if anyone kicks it on top of Davey's head in a one on one then they do 1000 push ups.

Now we have Gumby and Hurley in the same team, Cram needs to play shorter. Gumby at FF and Hurls at CHF. Gotta give Gumby time now he's playing fit, gets his fitness and game speed up to the required level.

 

[HirdyLannister]

Personally Ill drop Hurley for 1 game just to give him a kick in the arse and make him realise he isn't a walk in start

 

[calyam]

We are the highest scoring team in the competition but we are doing so via quantity rather than quality and via a midfield that can kick their fair share of goals. We average 60 inside 50s per game, which is extremely high by historical standards. But I think we can be too predictable when entering 50, we like to blaze away and bomb it long to the square. The advantage to that is that it allows you to lock it in and it is more difficult for the opposition to clear the ball. However, I think at times we would benefit from a less predictable approach, with a few more leads and in general more movement throughout the 50. Best way of getting opponents out of position is to make them move.

So I don't think it is the case that we are dysfunctional but more the case that we could become a little more efficient. We have guys like Watson, Goddard and Zaharakis who can make good decisions so back them to find the leading man in a good position. Would also be nice if we could stop putting it on Davey's head.

 

[fishardansin]

Personally Ill drop Hurley for 1 game just to give him a kick in the arse and make him realise he isn't a walk in start

Interesting!

Actually I'd start playing him in the twos for his first match back. His scratchyness on return is crazy. Best he works that out in the twos.

Regards the OP. There is much that is frustrating about our forward line, but it holds great promise. Crameri, Hurley and Gumby can work well together if they rotate between power forward, high forward and very high forward. Once they work this out they'll be able to isolate mismatches much better.


In fact I'd like to see Crameri get back to more of that very high forward role and really provide a big body at packs and marking contests around the wings and then trying to win the ball by outsprinting his opponent back towards goal. Hurley as the traditional CHF and Gumby as the good set of hands inside 50.