Is this a period of opportunity?

[76woodenspooners]

There is only one way to tackle this question.

The board need to first answer this question and then communicate it to all.

Why does the Collingwood Football Club exist and why does it continue to need to be?

I don't know how often I've heard Club Presidents say "our club is here to win premierships". What misguided thinking that ultimately leads to poor decision making. Clubs were started for a purpose, so Eddie needs to be clear on that and then remind everyone all the time.

Once that is clear the CFC then needs to reach out and connect everything and everyone to that purpose. Perhaps winning flags (like making a profit in business) helps serve that purpose, but ultimately it's the purpose that matters and that's what every member should join for.

"I have a dream", not "I have a plan"

Very very interesting.

Am I correct in thinking that you're pointing out the difference between an 'objective' and a 'purpose'?

Eg:

Objective: to go to the shops; Purpose: To get food
Objective: to get drunk; Purpose: to forget the troubles of the world
Objective: to fly to Europe; Purpose: to have a holiday
Objective: to win Premierships; Purpose: .... ?

If it is deemed that the purpose is something like (for example) "to inspire and bring a sense of pride to the followers of the Collingwood Football Club", then that's obviously compatible with an objective of winning Premierships; but we can appreciate that there are other objectives that can also address the purpose.

That's going to get you in trouble with some members, supporters and posters on here who consider winning a Premiership each year is a checkbox that needs to be ticked (ie: winning the Premiership is the purpose ... a rather hollow purpose). I'll extrapolate further from your point and suggest that the club's actions have had the unintended consequences of encouraging this thinking ...

"You promised you'd tick that checkbox and you didn't, you lied! Oh, what are you saying now, that ticking that checkbox isn't important? You want to replace that checkbox with a non-binary subjective warm and fuzzy thingy I can't measure? So you are trying to move the goalposts now that it's all too hard? I see other teams can tick that checkbox, why can't we? Are we incompetent? People needed to be sacked until we get somebody who figure out how to tick that checkbox" ...

... and on it goes ...

Perhaps the club might have mismanaging expectations and setting themselves up for failure?

Brilliant point you made there rose jam ... I'd give it a hundred likes if I could!

 

[76woodenspooners]

No wonder we are ****** from the top down.
What a heap of s**t that document is.
Would love to know if Ed conformed to all those points when he was in the CS.
I'm guessing not.

This document shows just how divorced from the fan base our great club has become.
It's time to go.......ED!
And take your ridiculous social engineering with you.

What points in that document do you object to?

 

[mattys123]

I do laugh at that list of things;

11. Abusing players, officials or fellow Cheer Squad members will not be tolerated at any time

No pies fan can be in the cheer squad, simple. At one point in your time attending Pies games, you have "abused" an umpire, opposition player or even one of our own, sorry you just have.

Laughable crap really.

But it's a sign more of the rules enforced on Collingwood by the ground we call home (The MCG) and the league we play in (AFL).

Everything in the AFL now has become so focussed on being politically correct that it's actually gone over the edge and now made the atmosphere at a lot of games quite sterile.

You need fans to be going off their brain every now and then, whether it be positive or negative, it just adds to the whole atmosphere.

 

[sirene]

I would be interested to see other clubs cheer squad "rules/charters" for comparison before I totally lambast ours.
That being said, it does read like a piece on anti-Aussie rules agenda....(not afl)... against the game as I have always known it....Mattys123 said it better than me

 

[CFC2010]

Very very interesting.

Am I correct in thinking that you're pointing out the difference between an 'objective' and a 'purpose'?

Eg:

Objective: to go to the shops; Purpose: To get food
Objective: to get drunk; Purpose: to forget the troubles of the world
Objective: to fly to Europe; Purpose: to have a holiday
Objective: to win Premierships; Purpose: .... ?

If it is deemed that the purpose is something like (for example) "to inspire and bring a sense of pride to the followers of the Collingwood Football Club", then that's obviously compatible with an objective of winning Premierships; but we can appreciate that there are other objectives that can also address the purpose.

That's going to get you in trouble with some members, supporters and posters on here who consider winning a Premiership each year is a checkbox that needs to be ticked (ie: winning the Premiership is the purpose ... a rather hollow purpose). I'll extrapolate further from your point and suggest that the club's actions have had the unintended consequences of encouraging this thinking ...

"You promised you'd tick that checkbox and you didn't, you lied! Oh, what are you saying now, that ticking that checkbox isn't important? You want to replace that checkbox with a non-binary subjective warm and fuzzy thingy I can't measure? So you are trying to move the goalposts now that it's all too hard? I see other teams can tick that checkbox, why can't we? Are we incompetent? People needed to be sacked until we get somebody who figure out how to tick that checkbox" ...

... and on it goes ...

Perhaps the club might have mismanaging expectations and setting themselves up for failure?

Brilliant point you made there rose jam ... I'd give it a hundred likes if I could!

What came first the "chicken or the egg?" Who cares about purpose or the chicken or the egg for that matter!

If you are not in business to make money, then what is the point in being in business? (Unless you are a charity)

The Pies are in business of winning premierships! It's a simple as that for me.

Yes the times have changed and the passion or atmosphere at
Club has changed over time, but Eddies job is to give the club the greatest opportunity to win flags.

Hawthorn has got a grasp of the true essense of a Moderrn Football Club why can't we?

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

My parents were in the Collingwood Social Club in the 60s when you could have a beer after the game with the players. I was in the SC in the 90s and you could see them transitioning to a very corporate environment at that time where you had to fork out money just to scratch yourself and in the end I think Ed just got a bit too carried away and over controlling of the whole show. He's been a great president in many ways but in others he has - and it's a paradox for someone who bleeds black and white like Eddie - killed the soul of the Club.

The cheer squad stuff is kind of symbolic of the wider issue of keeping us always at arms length as the plebs who can't be trusted to get too close to any of the inner workings. Everything is stage managed, groomed, manicured and spun, almost a bit like a political party. I think any organisation that comes to value appearance over substance, that puts too much energy into marketing and PR and image and merchandising and all the other stuff, sometimes momentarily forgets what it exists for in the first place and I think jonbe hit the nail on the head, it should be about the people who support you and more than anything, about winning games of footy.

Hawthorn are now a massive corporate entity like us but still seem totally focused on all the things that achieve real success. Geelong and Sydney by all accounts run their clubs deliberately low key to keep players grounded and focused. I don't know what sort of deal they have for members and cheer squads but would not be surprised if they treated them more respectfully than ours. The truth is that the real grass roots Collingwood now exists outside of the club itself in communities, pubs, supporter groups and social media.

The departure of the rat packers and celebs post 2010 should be an opportunity for us to re calibrate as a club and go down a similar path.

 

[PTpie]

The cheer squad stuff is kind of symbolic of the wider issue of keeping us always at arms length as the plebs who can't be trusted to get too close to any of the inner workings. Everything is stage managed, groomed, manicured and spun, almost a bit like a political party. I think any organisation that comes to value appearance over substance, that puts too much energy into marketing and PR and image and merchandising and all the other stuff, sometimes momentarily forgets what it exists for in the first place and I think jonbe hit the nail on the head, it should be about the people who support you and more than anything, about winning games of footy.

Sorry for the cut paste but this paragraph highlights what I feel is the most pertinent. I'll give you all my perspective on this with what occurred to me that left my son pretty disappointed with the CFC itself but a massive wrap for S Pendlebury as a person.

In round 10 of 2013 (vs Brisbane @ Gabba) my son (he was 11 at the time) was selected as the interstate junior mascot to represent the club and run onto the field with the team. Both of us were stoked at what I view as a huge honour and something to remember for his and my lifetimes. We were invited to the team rooms 20 minutes prior to kick off where we met with CFC staff and were told immediately not to approach any other staff or players or we would be ejected.

We could hear Buck's giving his pre-game talk to the boys and were ushered quickly up the race as they made their way out onto the field. Maxy was injured and Pendles was the stand-in Captain and he came straight over to my boy and took him by the hand ran with him through the banner, talking to him the whole way. While everyone else went off to do their arm ups Pendles had a quick chat and did a complete lap of the centre square with him up until the coin toss then sent him on his way back.

After that the CFC staff told us to make our way back down the race, out of the complex and back to our seats, that was it.

Now I may sound like a whinger but I expected more. I assumed Josh would at least receive some sort of goodies bag with a signed poster and maybe a footy or something. Perhaps even a limited edition guernsey with an "I was a mascot at this game, this season" badge embroidered on to it. I mean we are supposedly the biggest club in the country with the largest club spending, the largest (financial) supporter base and so on. It just felt, well lame. If it wasn't for Pendles being so awesome on the ground the whole thing would have been a waste of time and my boy would have preferred an ice cream in the stands while waiting.

Sorry for the wall of text but this still bothers me now.

TLDR - The club's lost touch with what makes us feel a part of it IMHO.

 

[Bard]

Sorry for the cut paste but this paragraph highlights what I feel is the most pertinent. I'll give you all my perspective on this with what occurred to me that left my son pretty disappointed with the CFC itself but a massive wrap for S Pendlebury as a person.

In round 10 of 2013 (vs Brisbane @ Gabba) my son (he was 11 at the time) was selected as the interstate junior mascot to represent the club and run onto the field with the team. Both of us were stoked at what I view as a huge honour and something to remember for his and my lifetimes. We were invited to the team rooms 20 minutes prior to kick off where we met with CFC staff and were told immediately not to approach any other staff or players or we would be ejected.

We could hear Buck's giving his pre-game talk to the boys and were ushered quickly up the race as they made their way out onto the field. Maxy was injured and Pendles was the stand-in Captain and he came straight over to my boy and took him by the hand ran with him through the banner, talking to him the whole way. While everyone else went off to do their arm ups Pendles had a quick chat and did a complete lap of the centre square with him up until the coin toss then sent him on his way back.

After that the CFC staff told us to make our way back down the race, out of the complex and back to our seats, that was it.

Now I may sound like a whinger but I expected more. I assumed Josh would at least receive some sort of goodies bag with a signed poster and maybe a footy or something. Perhaps even a limited edition guernsey with an "I was a mascot at this game, this season" badge embroidered on to it. I mean we are supposedly the biggest club in the country with the largest club spending, the largest (financial) supporter base and so on. It just felt, well lame. If it wasn't for Pendles being so awesome on the ground the whole thing would have been a waste of time and my boy would have preferred an ice cream in the stands while waiting.

Sorry for the wall of text but this still bothers me now.

TLDR - The club's lost touch with what makes us feel a part of it IMHO.

Good post.

Personally the pack of goodies bag doesn't seem like an issue to me, but the heavyhanded approach the club took in ordering you around seemed a bit out of touch. But it's hard to judge without experiencing it myself.

 

[rose jam]

Very very interesting.

Am I correct in thinking that you're pointing out the difference between an 'objective' and a 'purpose'?

Eg:

Objective: to go to the shops; Purpose: To get food
Objective: to get drunk; Purpose: to forget the troubles of the world
Objective: to fly to Europe; Purpose: to have a holiday
Objective: to win Premierships; Purpose: .... ?

:

Firstly I'll give you some examples from the business world.

Why does Mary Kay exist? It's not to make women prettier, or give shareholders money, it was started to give women opportunities in business they wouldn't otherwise have. Everything they do from hiring to strategy to selling, everything serves that purpose.

Southwest Airlines (most successful aircraft carrier ever); they were started because the founders believed that flying was being priced so high it was for the elites. They believed that if Mr Joe Average wanted to viist his sick grandmother on the other side of the country then he could just jump on a plane and do it. That's why everything they do is aimed at keeping prices low.

Why does Collingwood exist? I don't know, maybe it was to give joy to hard working class people. I don't know, but I know it needs to start there, and everyone needs to join for that reason.

 

[rose jam]

I do laugh at that list of things;



No pies fan can be in the cheer squad, simple. At one point in your time attending Pies games, you have "abused" an umpire, opposition player or even one of our own, sorry you just have.

Laughable crap really.

But it's a sign more of the rules enforced on Collingwood by the ground we call home (The MCG) and the league we play in (AFL).

.

Pretty sure that's a policy in line with the AFL policy. All clubs the same

 

[wicksy]

Don't get me started.
For one some of the timid sooks that liked to think they were in charge didn't like anyone other than themselves taking a leading role, and were trying to turn the cheer squad in to the wiggles picnic at the football which I took offence to.
They reckoned I was too confrontational just because I wouldn't take s**t from opposition supporters, and if people came looking for trouble I would give it them. They never came back though let me tell you.
When I was a member there was heart and passion and energy to the cheer squad. Now there's not. Do the math.

Please tell me you weren't the tossa that's always shown by C7 acting like a complete psycho!?
I cringe every time I see him....

(Not Joffa)

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I thnk there's an element of bandwagoning that I believe has only really reared it's head post the 2010 flag. Once you've had that kind of success, it's hard to go back to nothing.

Then you see a club like Hawthorn which simply continues to win flags hand over fist with frightening regularity and you can kinda understand why so many of us aren't interested. We're just as well resourced (if not more so) than Hawthorn yet we're not anywhere NEAR their level both on and off field. To be frank, I'm growing tired of seeing my money go to waste, so my passion is somewhat diminished. Frequent losses only exacerbate that.

 

[sd26]

Very very interesting.

Am I correct in thinking that you're pointing out the difference between an 'objective' and a 'purpose'?

Eg:

Objective: to go to the shops; Purpose: To get food
Objective: to get drunk; Purpose: to forget the troubles of the world
Objective: to fly to Europe; Purpose: to have a holiday
Objective: to win Premierships; Purpose: .... ?

If it is deemed that the purpose is something like (for example) "to inspire and bring a sense of pride to the followers of the Collingwood Football Club", then that's obviously compatible with an objective of winning Premierships; but we can appreciate that there are other objectives that can also address the purpose.

That's going to get you in trouble with some members, supporters and posters on here who consider winning a Premiership each year is a checkbox that needs to be ticked (ie: winning the Premiership is the purpose ... a rather hollow purpose). I'll extrapolate further from your point and suggest that the club's actions have had the unintended consequences of encouraging this thinking ...

"You promised you'd tick that checkbox and you didn't, you lied! Oh, what are you saying now, that ticking that checkbox isn't important? You want to replace that checkbox with a non-binary subjective warm and fuzzy thingy I can't measure? So you are trying to move the goalposts now that it's all too hard? I see other teams can tick that checkbox, why can't we? Are we incompetent? People needed to be sacked until we get somebody who figure out how to tick that checkbox" ...

... and on it goes ...

Perhaps the club might have mismanaging expectations and setting themselves up for failure?

Brilliant point you made there rose jam ... I'd give it a hundred likes if I could!

Purpose: to play great football Objective: win the premiership
Purpose: to go to the MCG in the last week of September Objective: win the premiership
Purpose to play in the finals Objective: win the premiership etc.

 

[rose jam]

That can never be the purpose, it may help serve it, but so can other things like community work, charity donations, etc. A purpose must always srrve something to make the eorld a better place. If not, you get egotistd running the place trying to make themselves feel good and thats horrible re: essendon

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

TLDR - The club's lost touch with what makes us feel a part of it IMHO.

I tend to agree . I haven't put a great deal of thought into what needs to change but you only have to look at some of the other clubs and their membership packages + value to see that they're hungrier to make their members and supporters feel a part of something. I get the impression (and it's just an opinion) that the attitude at CFC is more "it's a privilege for you to be a member of this great club" than "it's a privilege for our great club to have you as a member."

You see this sort of thing in all types of businesses as their success creates size. It takes a truly great organisation to maintain the personal touch as they get bigger and bigger and the founders become less and less the point of contact. Collingwood have the scale and means to take things to a whole new level with more of a focus on the "membership experience" but it's hard to see it happening with the current situation.

I've had Dayne take weeks to reply to a simple email question regarding membership. As things currently stand I'd advise people to go for an AFL membership with Collingwood support and that shouldn't be the case.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Firstly I'll give you some examples from the business world.

Why does Mary Kay exist? It's not to make women prettier, or give shareholders money, it was started to give women opportunities in business they wouldn't otherwise have. Everything they do from hiring to strategy to selling, everything serves that purpose.

Southwest Airlines (most successful aircraft carrier ever); they were started because the founders believed that flying was being priced so high it was for the elites. They believed that if Mr Joe Average wanted to viist his sick grandmother on the other side of the country then he could just jump on a plane and do it. That's why everything they do is aimed at keeping prices low.

Why does Collingwood exist? I don't know, maybe it was to give joy to hard working class people. I don't know, but I know it needs to start there, and everyone needs to join for that reason.

Oh, I'm totally with you.

I see it with technology all the time.

There are plenty of "awesome" and "really cool" technologies out there that totally bomb. The engineers go back to the specifications list to figure out what went wrong, but fundamentally it's because the product didn't have a clear purpose (or it did, but it wasn't designed to the purpose or wasn't marketed to the purpose).

 

[VantagePoint]

The Cheer Squad was gentrified with white-shirted sponsorship. We've lost our black, our edginess.

 

[Krueger]

The purpose should always be winning games of footy! This crap about being good corporate citizens is an absolute joke.

Is the CFC an organisation of good corporate citizens or a footy club trying to win premierships??!!!

Id take the rat pack at their peak over middle of the road, good citizen footballers every day of the week.

 

[Markfs]

I usually feel connected to something if other people think it's important to them.