Jonas and Butters subbed back on after head clash - with no concussion protocol undertaken

[Lavender Bushranger]

You

The question of negligence comes into play had Jonas or Butters been suffered consequential injury to the head as a result of further head contact after being cleared to play. There's no question of negligence until damage has occurred, and you cant sue or challenge the duty of care required for something that hasn't occurred or might happen.

You Can use it as evidence to support a broader lack of care by the AFL though.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Case closed

Not sure how the case is closed

The issue appeared to be that the AFL's policy and protocols are dogshit. It's the AFL that has a case to answer!

I mean s**t, the AFL are last people who I would listen to in regards to concussion. Look at their record in it. Appalling.

This is just yet another classic example of the AFL talking about the head being sacrosanct, but their actions demonstrating that it isn't. Not even close.

 

[theyellowsash]

imho clubs shouldnt have a choice. if a player receives a head knock, it should be a mandatory test. simply observing a player and going "he seems fine" is exactly what has caused the problem, even if the doctors are more honest about it now.

if the player has no concussion, then theres nothing to worry about and they can go straight back on. if they do, then obviously they dont go back on and theyve been protected.

 

[BF Tiger]

Imagine how many weeks Lynch would get if all his punches/elbows/and head slams put players out of games through an abundance of caution.

Would it be a number more than or less than the number of premiership medals he has?

 

[BF Tiger]

I was thinking of something intelligent to say, but apparently being educated on here is something to be derided so I'll keep it simple. You're all wrong, suck my utensil, go back to not caring about player safety and not discussing the tackle where Butters got his head slammed in the ground, just like the last time we played Richmond and he and Duursma came out with 3 month knee injuries from s**t tackles.

Give it up. Butters didn't get his head slammed into the ground, he was too weak to break that tackle and ended up losing his feet and falling with Graham still wrapping him up. Graham contributed very little to that. Furthermore, IIRC, Duursma's greatest injury against Richmond was from hitting the ground after dropping a sitter in front of goal in a game your mob lost by that margin that lead to our 2020 premiership. Should I post the video?

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Would it be a number more than or less than the number of premiership medals he has?

Rolf Harris, Robert Hughes, and Kevin Spacey were pretty successful too. Not sure it's relevant to every discussion about them.

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

I'm outraged and I'm a lawyer

 

[BF Tiger]

Rolf Harris, Robert Hughes, and Kevin Spacey were pretty successful too. Not sure it's relevant to every discussion about them.

I didn't ask about his success.

 

[Donakebab]

Just saw the incident, no ******* way should they have been allowed back on without a proper concussion test being conducted.

Decisions need to be taken away from clubs and made by independent doctors employed by the AFL.

 

[sdfc]

Just saw the incident, no ******* way should they have been allowed back on without a proper concussion test being conducted.

Decisions need to be taken away from clubs and made by independent doctors employed by the AFL.

Hard to believe there was no concussion test, but how courageous is Butters? Just goes at it in the first contest he was involved in after coming back on.

 

[_Mike_]

Not sure how the case is closed

The issue appeared to be that the AFL's policy and protocols are dogshit. It's the AFL that has a case to answer!

I mean s**t, the AFL are last people who I would listen to in regards to concussion. Look at their record in it. Appalling.


This is just yet another classic example of the AFL talking about the head being sacrosanct, but their actions demonstrating that it isn't. Not even close.

Case closed in that the AFL determined no case to answer. That doesn’t imply that I agreed with it.

 

[_Mike_]

You
You Can use it as evidence to support a broader lack of care by the AFL though.

The doctor has a duty of care to instruct the coach and player under the rules of concussion that there a likely risk of further injury occurring if they take to the field.

The second part of the question asks whether the person knowing of that risk took reasonable steps to prevent the damage/harm occurring by not allowing the player to come back on the field.

Vicarious liability extends that duty of care from the doctor to the club and to the AFL.

 

[John Who]

I think this incident was one of those grey areas where there is no clear right or wrong. I saw the incident on TV and was thinking they both probably should have done the concussion protocol from the mere fact they both lied relatively motionless straight after the impact. However, I recall myself having had a similar knock during training, with several seconds of losing my bearings then instantly recovered and was able to train on without any hassles.

On TV, there was footage of Jonas and Butters being gathered around by medical staff to treat their wounds on the bench, and I think they would have had some sort of mini-concussion tests while they were being physically managed. The good thing in Port’s favor is that Butters and Jonas could run around and play footy like a normal footballer in a 4th quarter ie. they didn’t look confused or “lost” on the footy field when they came back on.

The other side of the equation is that is it a good look for the fans and the whole “we want to prevent concussions” by the AFL? I believe not. So it’s really up to the AFL to make it clearer of how cautious they want to be with the concussion protocols? All head knocks? All head knocks that makes players wince in pain? All head knocks that makes player stop moving for 1 second? 3 seconds? ...

 

[HairyO]

Not sure how the case is closed

The issue appeared to be that the AFL's policy and protocols are dogshit. It's the AFL that has a case to answer!

I mean s**t, the AFL are last people who I would listen to in regards to concussion. Look at their record in it. Appalling.

This is just yet another classic example of the AFL talking about the head being sacrosanct, but their actions demonstrating that it isn't. Not even close.

The protocols are s**t despite the fact that both were checked by the doctor and neither were found to have concussion ?

To me that means the protocols worked.

It feels like you desperately want them to have concussion just so you can justify your 20 posts in this thread. Thats a little bit sick.

 

[Hungdaddy]

Whether they get up next week or not will be telling.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

The protocols are s**t despite the fact that both were checked by the doctor and neither were found to have concussion ?

To me that means the protocols worked.

It feels like you desperately want them to have concussion just so you can justify your 20 posts in this thread. Thats a little bit sick.

I can't believe people still think brain injury is only related to concussion.

It staggers me.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Whether they get up next week or not will be telling.

It's next year and next decade that is the concern.

 

[theyellowsash]

The protocols are s**t despite the fact that both were checked by the doctor and neither were found to have concussion ?

To me that means the protocols worked.

It feels like you desperately want them to have concussion just so you can justify your 20 posts in this thread. Thats a little bit sick.

Except they weren't checked because they didn't do a concussion test

 

[theyellowsash]

Imagine how many weeks Lynch would get if all his punches/elbows/and head slams put players out of games through an abundance of caution.

 

[HairyO]

Except they weren't checked because they didn't do a concussion test

They were checked. They got asked a number of immediate questions and the contact was reviewed. They showed no signs and the doctor made the right choice to let them play.

I like the way internet forum lurkers are now medical experts.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

What a stupid thread. OP should have got their facts right before hitting the "post" button.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Butters looked fine. Just a cut.

A mere flesh wound

 

[HairyO]

Hopefully no Collingwood supporters were outraged. Elliot got clocked in the head and he didnt even go off the ground for an assessment. Probably won the game for them in the last quarter, along with Cox taking about 20 marks.

 

[phantom13]

Head knocks are a funny think in that often innocuous ones can KO you or do some damage (hit the temple or the right point around the jaw and its lights out) but in reality anything with that much force has absolutely rattled your brain.

Its nuts to me that THAT level of force didnt immediately require the concussion protocol, regardless of if they displayed immediate symptoms or not (we also know that delayed concussion is absolutely a thing).

The AFL signing it off means nothing to me personally, they are trying to improve processes but only out of an abundance of concern about their long term legal position.

 

[theyellowsash]

Head knocks are a funny think in that often innocuous ones can KO you or do some damage (hit the temple or the right point around the jaw and its lights out) but in reality anything with that much force has absolutely rattled your brain.

Its nuts to me that THAT level of force didnt immediately require the concussion protocol, regardless of if they displayed immediate symptoms or not (we also know that delayed concussion is absolutely a thing).

The AFL signing it off means nothing to me personally, they are trying to improve processes but only out of an abundance of concern about their long term legal position.

i think the afl signing it off is just them protecting their own ass instead of the players. like every business and their customers/employees, they dgaf about the health of the players as long as it doesnt cost them money.

the minute they say port adelaide did the wrong thing, hello negligence lawsuits. as long as they can say that the club complied to
'best practice', they are somewhat protected.

a club would have to put someone out there in a wheelchair for the afl to ever admit a club did something wrong. just like how melbourne were fined for not tanking.