McGregor = worst couple CHB in the league?

[macca23]

i have only seen a small amounts of fawlty towers compared to seinfeld, but there unfortunately hasnt been much to even come close to seinfeld quality since it finished up.

I think kazaalite would have the same as most other sharing programs like ares, are they about 40MB?? some are good while others arent that great, quality wise. The 180MB ones i was getting were really good, but unfortunately the site seems to of had its links cut off.

I just had a look before jack. Kazaa had several episodes of around 200 MB quality, quite a few around 80MB, plus heaps at 40 MB.

 

[outback jack]

I just had a look before jack. Kazaa had several episodes of around 200 MB quality, quite a few around 80MB, plus heaps at 40 MB.

oh ok, i didnt realise that, i'll give it a go with the 200MB ones they will be good quailty u'd think, thanks for your help with that

 

[Ford Fairlane]

you might be right, we'll find out over the next couple of seasons.
I'd still play him forward myself.

It's funny, I'd actually play him on the ball. I reckon really floating around the ground he'd be a huge match up problem. He's great in the air and he's good enough at ground level to get the ball himself too.

But he's created such a buzz at CHB I can't see him being moved there in a hurry. And he does have a knack for reading the play coming into defence, probably better than he did as a forward. I think Damon White would be better suited to CHB than a forward role (mind u, based only on seeing him play back in a couple of scratch matches) which would free Chad up, but I can't see that happening.

In theory I agree with you, but dour close checking defenders, who are effective, are not common. that's the point, getting a key defender who can match up against a gun forward, is not easy and there are few of them.

There's that old saying about forwards being born and defenders being made. It's not strictly true, but it is around the mark. Leppitsch is a converted forward. I think Presti is too. Greg Phillips was, so was Meady. So they can be 'found' but the point below on midfields is another balance.

I don't think it's a coincidence that every year, the teams with best defense - statistically - are always the teams with the best midfields. who track back, and provide cover, and most importantly stem the flow into defensive 50. This is what allows teams, who lack the individual key defenders, to create the impression of a tight back 6, when really they have a lot more 'creative' freedom to run forward and try different things and put pressure on the forwards to man up on them, thus upsetting the rhythm of the attacking team.
However if you do not have this midfield advantage, you need the guys who can actually defend.

That's what makes life tough for the converted defenders, the unaccountable midfield. It's so true and is often overlooked when people talk defences. It would be interesting to see Cornesy in a side where he didn't get that cover. It's something he has to learn and like you said we'll see over the next couple of years - but he's only just started out as a CHB and so far so good. He has some good defenders back there with him. But the great defenders could provide cover when need was there. It was one thing Greg Phillips was great at. The HBFs could run downfield knowing Phillips would cover their man (he was much quicker than people thought). And he was exceptional at driving his opponent out of the forward zone. But as I said, Cornes is a different type of defender to Phillips, he does his own dashing upfield and so others have to cover for him.

Anyway it's an interesting debate, and I look forward to seeing what transpires over the next few years.

 

[Macca19]

Looking at your squad i doubt bishop will be there at seasons end depending on pettigrews form, i'm not sure who've you got to replace wakelin. Beating tarrant is no great feat esp last season, he has gone backwards the last couple of yrs.

Im not talking last year. Looking back over the stats, Bishop has beaten him in 4 of their 5 meetings. and has held Tarrant goalless 4 times and kept him to only 4 marks or so a game. This is going back to 2002 and including the Qualifying Final that year. Only time he has beaten Bish was in the Prelim in 03.

I also think you will find it will go the other way round. Wakelin should retire at years end. Bishop is 29 and coming off his best season of AFL football where he became a key member of our side. The only way he will leave is if he retires. There is next to no way he will be delisted.

Chad had a groin strain that was probably pride more than anything, he was playing the next week.

Double standards. He pulled a thigh in the warmup and was told to come off but insisted playing the first half. He was under doubt the next week and was almost a late exlcusion.

forwards wise from 02 to 03 he went downhill dont try and give me figures, they are very misleading, you'll be bringing up tredders contested marks soon, why else would williams move him, cause everything was travelling well?? He was a B-grade forward in a team that had failed three yrs in a row.

I agreed that Chad had an average 2003. It was still better than 75% of the key forwards in the league tho. My whole argument was you saying Chad was average in 02 when he turned into a gun. Why would Mark move him? A would have thought the move would have also been to help the team out as well as get Chad back on track.

afterall he got media attention, and when you think about it rivers was too youngand unproven, and there were not too many other players that played CHB for the whole season.

You mention Rivers but just remind me of how he played last year? Pretty damn close to Cornes I would think. Loose down back, dropping in front of packs to take marks. Yet everyone thinks Rivers is a star yet Cornes is a loose hack. Figure that out!

 

[Ford Fairlane]

No offence Macca, but wouldn't it be easier to go round the side of your house and bang your head against the wall? You'd make about as much impression as you will on this guy.

Spot on about Rivers tho - when Melbourne came to AAMI and he was made accountable to a forward leading him up the ground, he was a non factor.

 

[Macca19]

It's funny, I'd actually play him on the ball. I reckon really floating around the ground he'd be a huge match up problem. He's great in the air and he's good enough at ground level to get the ball himself too.

There was talk before the 2003 season that he would be played on the ball Hird/Kouta style but it never eventuated. He has the fitness, the skills and the body to play midfield.

I think Damon White would be better suited to CHB than a forward role (mind u, based only on seeing him play back in a couple of scratch matches) which would free Chad up, but I can't see that happening.

He has played very well at CHB for North when played there.

There's that old saying about forwards being born and defenders being made. It's not strictly true, but it is around the mark. Leppitsch is a converted forward. I think Presti is too. Greg Phillips was, so was Meady. So they can be 'found' but the point below on midfields is another balance.

Roger Delaney too. Couple of other AFL players as well.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Roger Delaney too. Couple of other AFL players as well.

Essendon are working on Lucas, Roger's old partner in crime George Fiacchi was a goal kicking rover in U19s, Max James was a converted FF who went to FB then on ball (hope for Chad yet!), I reckon Penny was a TAC Cup forward as was Watt, Fred Phillis at Glenelg went to FB for a while, Anthony Ingerson made a pretty good defender at Melbourne (defence is always a good place for key forwards who can't kick straight), as has Clint Bizzell ... history is littered with examples. Even Matthew Lokan ...

 

[Macca19]

Neitz as well, started as a forward, went back, then back up forward again.

Alaistair Lynch was a forward, then an AA full back, then back to a forward again.

 

[*PAF]

No offence Macca, but wouldn't it be easier to go round the side of your house and bang your head against the wall? You'd make about as much impression as you will on this guy.
...

All of OJ's opinions come straight out of the main board. UNIT and TP have been known to post almost word for word what he does.
That is why I am of the opinion he has not watched many Port games at all.

 

[outback jack]

Im not talking last year. Looking back over the stats, Bishop has beaten him in 4 of their 5 meetings. and has held Tarrant goalless 4 times and kept him to only 4 marks or so a game. This is going back to 2002 and including the Qualifying Final that year. Only time he has beaten Bish was in the Prelim in 03.

once again i dont know the stats over the last 4 or 5 times, and they are misleading. But i wouldnt be surprised if he did beat him, tarrants strength is speed and so is bishop’s i would think they would match up very well. I think bishop was a good get considering what you paid for him, but hes not the next best thing. He has he flaws and will always be the third defender

I also think you will find it will go the other way round. Wakelin should retire at years end. Bishop is 29 and coming off his best season of AFL football where he became a key member of our side. The only way he will leave is if he retires. There is next to no way he will be delisted.

who do you have to replace wakelin?
pettigrew for bishop is a direct swap for similar types, bishop will have to maintain his form this yr, or someone is going to be squeezed out.

Double standards. He pulled a thigh in the warmup and was told to come off but insisted playing the first half. He was under doubt the next week and was almost a late exlcusion.

You idiot what a joke, he was back the NEXT WEEK. Brown has had THREE MONTHS off, there is a huge difference. Brown couldnt even move in the GF. If him and lynch weren’t injured you would have struggled to win the GF

I agreed that Chad had an average 2003. It was still better than 75% of the key forwards in the league tho. My whole argument was you saying Chad was average in 02 when he turned into a gun. Why would Mark move him? A would have thought the move would have also been to help the team out as well as get Chad back on track.

Not better than 75%, he was almost non-exsistent that yr, i would not say he was a 'gun' until this yr (04), as a forward he was a B grader, that could really hold a KP, more a flank. He is starting to push to A graders now

And he moved him, because the team had failed for three yrs, and chad was one of the reasons esp in finals, he didn’t stand up. Chad’s career imo was a little at the crossroads, of course he wouldn’t be delisted, but hes taken the next step now, something he wasn’t doing up forward.

You mention Rivers but just remind me of how he played last year? Pretty damn close to Cornes I would think. Loose down back, dropping in front of packs to take marks. Yet everyone thinks Rivers is a star yet Cornes is a loose hack. Figure that out!

imo rivers gets it right, he is accountable, i'm not sure if you have fox, but if you think he plays like chad you havent been watching him, he plays the man and zones off when appropriate. he will over take chad this yr, barring injuries of course.

The only times rivers was beaten last yr was against some bigger opponents who out marked him, this should improve this yr if he has added weight. He wasn’t beaten leaving his man 20m in the clear.


I am pretty disappointed with your responses some of them are bias without looking at the appropriate situation and others are just plain ignorant, but I suppose you may think the same of some of mine. I atleast am a unbiased soure.

 

[jakey]

once again i dont know the stats over the last 4 or 5 times, and they are misleading. But i wouldnt be surprised if he did beat him, tarrants strength is speed and so is bishop’s i would think they would match up very well. I think bishop was a good get considering what you paid for him, but hes not the next best thing. He has he flaws and will always be the third defender



who do you have to replace wakelin?
pettigrew for bishop is a direct swap for similar types, bishop will have to maintain his form this yr, or someone is going to be squeezed out.



You idiot what a joke, he was back the NEXT WEEK. Brown has had THREE MONTHS off, there is a huge difference. Brown couldnt even move in the GF. If him and lynch weren’t injured you would have struggled to win the GF




Not better than 75%, he was almost non-exsistent that yr, i would not say he was a 'gun' until this yr (04), as a forward he was a B grader, that could really hold a KP, more a flank. He is starting to push to A graders now

And he moved him, because the team had failed for three yrs, and chad was one of the reasons esp in finals, he didn’t stand up. Chad’s career imo was a little at the crossroads, of course he wouldn’t be delisted, but hes taken the next step now, something he wasn’t doing up forward.



imo rivers gets it right, he is accountable, i'm not sure if you have fox, but if you think he plays like chad you havent been watching him, he plays the man and zones off when appropriate. he will over take chad this yr, barring injuries of course.

The only times rivers was beaten last yr was against some bigger opponents who out marked him, this should improve this yr if he has added weight. He wasn’t beaten leaving his man 20m in the clear.


I am pretty disappointed with your responses some of them are bias without looking at the appropriate situation and others are just plain ignorant, but I suppose you may think the same of some of mine. I atleast am a unbiased soure.

Vomit.

 

[outback jack]

Vomit.

yes, good one. how long did that take to think of??

 

[Macca19]

I think bishop was a good get considering what you paid for him, but hes not the next best thing. He has he flaws and will always be the third defender

I never said he was the next best thing. I said he was our most consistent defender and one of the most underrated players int he league.

who do you have to replace wakelin?
pettigrew for bishop is a direct swap for similar types, bishop will have to maintain his form this yr, or someone is going to be squeezed out.

Chaplin will replace Wakelin.

You idiot what a joke, he was back the NEXT WEEK. Brown has had THREE MONTHS off, there is a huge difference. Brown couldnt even move in the GF. If him and lynch weren’t injured you would have struggled to win the GF

Brown was injured but still played th GF. Chad was injured but still played the next week. Brown has had three months off because THERE HAS BEEN NO FOOTBALL FOR THREE MONTHS!!!! Funny that!

And he moved him, because the team had failed for three yrs, and chad was one of the reasons esp in finals, he didn’t stand up.

As was our defence which was boring and apart from Wanganeen lacked inventiveness, run and rebound. Chad needed a kick up the butt and our defence desperatly needed something different. It was a premiership winning move.

imo rivers gets it right, he is accountable, i'm not sure if you have fox, but if you think he plays like chad you havent been watching him, he plays the man and zones off when appropriate. he will over take chad this yr, barring injuries of course.

I disagree. This is exactly how Cornes plays as well. Whenever he was forced to play accountable he was average. Like against Port where he was given a thrashing. Like against St Kilda when he played on Riewoldt and had 9 goals kicked on him. For all of Chads poor games, he never had 9 goals kicked on him.

The only times rivers was beaten last yr was against some bigger opponents who out marked him, this should improve this yr if he has added weight. He wasn’t beaten leaving his man 20m in the clear.

You kept asking what big names Chad beat during the year. Well what big names did Rivers beat?

Rivers had a good year, made better because it was unexpected and he came from nowhere a bit, but the stark reality is that you shoot down Cornes but praise Rivers when they played pretty much the exact same role this year.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Y'know macca I think I may have underestimated you ... you may have actually worn him down.

OJ went from this

chads season wasnt great, no one has been able to give a quality forward he actually beat. Anyone beaten by bolton shouldnt be AA. i cant remember him playing against rocca, he was cut up by brown, who all say is overrated, kenny too, the list goes on, he will be found out this yr, he just isnt a defender.

to this

Not better than 75%, he was almost non-exsistent that yr, i would not say he was a 'gun' until this yr (04), as a forward he was a B grader, that could really hold a KP, more a flank. He is starting to push to A graders now

And he moved him, because the team had failed for three yrs, and chad was one of the reasons esp in finals, he didn’t stand up. Chad’s career imo was a little at the crossroads, of course he wouldn’t be delisted, but hes taken the next step now, something he wasn’t doing up forward.

So he's gone from being a crap player who can't cut it as a defender to a crap forward who has taken the next step as a defender who is pushing the A Graders.

On top of that, he is the AA CHB, 3rd in the Brownlow, rated top 10 by Sheahan and Walls ... but of course stats mean nothing, the AA selectors don't know what they're doing, and guys who report on football for a living have no idea ...

 

[*PAF]

Early 2003 Chad Cornes was going great guns.
As far as not being a good forward, well how has he performed in Showdowns?

 

[outback jack]

Y'know macca I think I may have underestimated you ... you may have actually worn him down.

OJ went from this



to this



So he's gone from being a crap player who can't cut it as a defender to a crap forward who has taken the next step as a defender who is pushing the A Graders.

On top of that, he is the AA CHB, 3rd in the Brownlow, rated top 10 by Sheahan and Walls ... but of course stats mean nothing, the AA selectors don't know what they're doing, and guys who report on football for a living have no idea ...

what did is the glaring contradiction?

chad has definitely taken a step up since hes gone into defence the questions are, how complete a player is he, how accountable is he, and how much does he rely on his teamates help. Whether he is an AA CHB is also in question

 

[Ford Fairlane]

what did is the glaring contradiction?

chad has definitely taken a step up since hes gone into defence the questions are, how complete a player is he, how accountable is he, and how much does he rely on his teamates help. Whether he is an AA CHB is also in question

I thought the contradiction was obvious. You went from "he's not a defender" to saying he's taken the next step and is pushing A List status ... on the basis of his season as a defender.

And no, his status as AA CHB is not in question. He is the AA CHB. Whether you agree or not doesn't change that.

But, as you would glean from my exchange with Cro-mo, I am interested to see how he progresses. That he was able to have what was by most indicators a very good season at CHB in his first real crack at that role was a good beginning. But yes, how he continues to improve and evolve in the role is the next measure.

FWIW I don't think his finals series in 02 and 03 were good enough for a key forward. He simply did not kick goals and really that's the critical component. And I think Wakelin does wear some undue criticism. That Gehrig chopped him up early in the Prelim was a factor of some very poor skill turnovers and some outright midfield dominance by St Kilda early.

 

[jakey]

yes, good one. how long did that take to think of??

I felt the need to express displeasure, but didn't feel you post was deserving of any more of my valuable time.