Moore and Freeman - time is not for conservative selection

[Harry O]

We are not in any sort of contention in 2015. It is incumbent on Buckley to start giving opportunities to Moore, Freeman, De Goey, Scharenberg, Gault, Kennedy, Broomhead and co. Enough of the conservatism to protect his job. And why Goldsack persisted with as a forward. Defence or VFL for mine.

6.30pm tonight we should be hailing the debuts of Moore and Freeman. Something to get excited about for the first time in 2 years at Collingwood.

 

[magpie90]

This will be the reason to keep me excited going to the footy this year. Watching the debuts and development of out next premiership side.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Completely agreed. We are zero chance for a flag this year or next, and almost zero chance for finals this year. Start playing these kids and gets games into them so in about 3 years time, we have a bunch of 18-23 year olds who are a settled 22 that have played almost 100 games together.

 

[PieNSauce]

We are not in any sort of contention in 2015. It is incumbent on Buckley to start giving opportunities to Moore, Freeman, De Goey, Scharenberg, Gault, Kennedy, Broomhead and co. Enough of the conservatism to protect his job. And why Goldsack persisted with as a forward. Defence or VFL for mine.

6.30pm tonight we should be hailing the debuts of Moore and Freeman. Something to get excited about for the first time in 2 years at Collingwood.

I don't think Bucks is being overly conservative but more being careful not to deflate young players before they are at least fit enough to run out a game. Young players can very quickly go backwards if they see themselves as failing at this level so the last thing you want is to put them in a situation where they don't have the fitness to run out a game. I'm reasonably confident that over the next few weeks we will see some of these players filtering into the side as they are ready. I'm excited by that too!

 

[ppoiter]

Id personally rather see both 'banging down the door' in the VFL first. Freeman is effectively a new draftee (in terms of match experience) and Moore IS a new draftee. Would love to see 5-10 games from Moore and 10-15 from Freeman but lets be patient

 

[Lord of the Pies]

I remember Jack Watts debut, that worked out well. I am all for bringing in new players but only when their spot is earned. I just want best available 22 picked each week. Be it Darcy Moore or Tony Armstrong if they have earned it bring em in.

 

[Alexander323bc]

I think this thread shows how important it is to manage expectations. I don't think there is one passionate supporter that doesn't realize where our club is at and what we need to do to succeed. Even thought the AFL keeps pushing the message "any given Sunday" the reality is that the game has gone beyond that and you first need to build a competitive team over a few years usually with top 10 picks, before you can consider yourself a premiership chance.

 

[Vicky Park]

I don't think Bucks is being overly conservative but more being careful not to deflate young players before they are at least fit enough to run out a game. Young players can very quickly go backwards if they see themselves as failing at this level so the last thing you want is to put them in a situation where they don't have the fitness to run out a game. I'm reasonably confident that over the next few weeks we will see some of these players filtering into the side as they are ready. I'm excited by that too!

I'm in this camp too. Cant wait to see these guys, but also dont want them thrown to the wolves if Bucks and the coaches dont think they're ready.

In Buck's coaching career to date it is evident that he is very conservative in team selections. He doesnt make wholesale changes, unless forced to by injuries, and he is very loyal to the guys in our best 22 (not sure who they are ATM), and maybe 'loyal to a fault'. Risk taking is not his strong point.

 

[jathanas]

Id personally rather see both 'banging down the door' in the VFL first. Freeman is effectively a new draftee (in terms of match experience) and Moore IS a new draftee. Would love to see 5-10 games from Moore and 10-15 from Freeman but lets be patient

This.

I remember Jack Watts debut, that worked out well. I am all for bringing in new players but only when their spot is earned. I just want best available 22 picked each week. Be it Darcy Moore or Tony Armstrong if they have earned it bring em in.

and that.

 

[Soaring Magpie]

It's the perfect week to give them an opportunity, up against a young saints side. Give them a taste, see how they they handle it. The young players will need to be managed through this year with game time, but this week should be the start of it

 

[NT.Thunder]

If form warrants their selection they get a game. I have a feeling Moore might do another week in the VFL and we'll debut him ANZAC Day. We seem to have a habit of blooding big recruits on the second biggest game of the year.

 

[JOELY]

I don't think he should, but if he does play, Freeman will likely be the sub. In that case I'd rather him play the full game in the VFL. He needs all the game time he can possibly get at the moment.

 

[Kilmo]

Broomhead
Crisp
Langdon
Oxley
Frost
Grundy
Ramsay

Were all young/inexperienced kids playing on the weekend.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I remember Jack Watts Jackson Paine and Peter Yagmoor debut, that worked out well. I am all for bringing in new players but only when their spot is earned. I just want best available 22 picked each week. Be it Darcy Moore or Tony Armstrong if they have earned it bring em in.

Edited for other examples

 

[76woodenspooners]

What jathanas said ...

(this IS the best way to develop our kids)

Id personally rather see both 'banging down the door' in the VFL first. Freeman is effectively a new draftee (in terms of match experience) and Moore IS a new draftee. Would love to see 5-10 games from Moore and 10-15 from Freeman but lets be patient

This.

I remember Jack Watts debut, that worked out well. I am all for bringing in new players but only when their spot is earned. I just want best available 22 picked each week. Be it Darcy Moore or Tony Armstrong if they have earned it bring em in.

and that.

 

[loki04]

I remember Jack Watts debut, that worked out well. I am all for bringing in new players but only when their spot is earned. I just want best available 22 picked each week. Be it Darcy Moore or Tony Armstrong if they have earned it bring em in.

Yeah, because he's the only first year player to debut ever, am i right.

 

[loki04]

Edited for other examples

There are a heap of examples going the other way too.

 

[GutsyBug]

In my opinion the policy should always be pick the best team possible.

The thing is though, most of the time the best team possible will have some kids simply because of the nature of our list at the moment, so either way picking the team to win is a good option.

 

[frizzle]

Agree with loki04

Other examples for us - Daisy played round 1 - resounding success
- Langdon played round 1 - resounding success.
- De Goey played round 1 - will be a resounding success

Other clubs - Nakia Cockatoo (round 1)
- Isaac Heeney (round 1)
- Clem Smith (Round 1)
- Angus Brayshaw (round 1)
- Touk Miller (round 1)
- Jarrod Garlett (round 1)
- Tom Lamb (round 1)
- Jack Lonie (round 1)

Etc etc etc. Brayshaw had an interrupted pre season but still debuted. Sometimes we are a bit too conservative with our selection policy. Give the young kids a chance & give them a taste. The opposition this weekend are also inexperienced, so it's a good time to roll the dice in my opinion. Moore for one would not let us down. His fierceness at the contest would be invaluable on Friday night.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

I think Freeman should be playing. He is a big part of our future midfield and has already lost a development year. His body is clearly big enough and endurance is a strong suit of his, so running out games shouldn't be an issue after a couple of weeks bedding in.

I would accept the arguments against his selection if the guys picked instead of him were playing very well but they are not, and that's the problem. We may get C grade performances from him and C+ from the older guy and if we were in premiership mode that would reason enough to pick the established bloke. If we are not though (we clearly aren't), I'd take the C I it means Freeman has a chance to get to B+ or A more quickly, over the player with less potential still churning out C+ performances in 18 months. If you play him and he struggles, send him back to the VFL and try again in a few weeks. You honestly don't know how players will respond to the step up and he might just be the type to raise his game. If his VFL performances say he is "ready" in Round 20, I don't want him debuting then. He could be a 15 game player by then and won't be any less ready by having 14 games of senior experience. The kid needs games and moreover, we need him to get games.

 

[tommyv49]

I'm of the opinion you pick your best 22 every week. There is 0 point playing kids that aren't ready.

 

[robertg22]

I'm of the opinion you pick your best 22 every week. There is 0 point playing kids that aren't ready.

Exactly... especially in round 3! Given the senior players we will/may have out, we need to pick the best possible team.

 

[ClaytonM]

Yeah, because he's the only first year player to debut ever, am i right.

No but the assumption that these players need to be in the AFL to develop is a fallacy. At this stage all I want from them is to play games in the VFL, develop their knowledge and skills, and build their bodies and tanks for the riggers of the AFL. Once they how proven themselves in the VFL REGULARLY then I would like to see them in the AFL.

This need to have in the AFL to develop could hurt them both physically and mentally. Yes I expect some would fly, but some may crash and burn.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

As Kilmo said, its not like we aren't playing plenty of young players at the moment. While it is desirable to get games into the kids, there's a balance where it becomes counterproductive to play too many at once.

Freeman and Moore are hopefully ten year players. It doesn't make sense to do anything other than bring them on in the way that best sets them up. At the moment, that means playing VFL.

It's not like we're playing guys like Armstrong, Dwyer or Young ahead of them.

Also, not sure why we're writing off this season entirely now? We're 1-1, and should be the Saints this weekend. Let's at least give the season an honest go before concluding its hopeless.

 

[peter9789]

I'm in the camp of throw them in the deep end. If they have the talent they will survive and be better for it in the long run. The club will go through some pain but this will stand us in good stead in the long run. I think we should back our recruitment staff who have brought these players to the club for a reason and our development resources to get any player through this period. I don't buy the "theory" that it sets a players development back by introducing them early.

Enough of the hacks who cant kick - I want to see the talent! C'mon PIES lets do it