Put the blowtorch on Boyd

[Trugo3013]

I agree with the OP to some extent and you've made some good points Mr Snarling. What I'd love Boyd to do is play within his limitations a bit more. If you think of Cross he rarely makes a kicking mistake because he knows he can't kick a 55m spear pass. Thats what's most frustrating with Boyd is that he tries to do things he simply can't do.

I look at it from a slightly different angle to that. I wouldn't want to see him play within his limitations too much, although like you say, a bit more would be nice.

I think Boyd's greatest attribute is also his greatest weakness. He tries too hard. To me it seems like he tries to do it all himself - and to be fair I can understand why he might have thought that he's had to do that in the last couple of years.

Forever pushing his limitations has gotten him the captaincy of an AFL club, which is an amazing achievement. It's gotta be hard for a man like that to not want to try and take everything into his own hands. He wants the responsibility; he just lacks the finishing skills at times. Many times lately.

FWIW I reckon it would cut Boyd up more than any of us when he butchers it. I'm hoping that Libba and Wallis - Libba in particular, I feel - will be able to take the pressure off more next year.

 

[doggy heaven]

- He has been playing like this for a while. Even when we were a good side he had the same deficiencies.

- Most of his disposals are under pressure is a cop out. Remember a few weeks ago against the saints when he butchered it in the last quarter under virtually no pressure? He does this way too often.

- The young players will make mistakes because they are young and inexperienced. Boyd is a senior player and captain. What's his excuse?

- Why bring up how hard he works? I never questioned his work ethic.

- How is my post hysterical? We've just been belted again for the eighth week in a row and we are crap. Quite frankly the club deserves more criticism than it is getting at the moment, including from its own supporters.

Well said.Right on the monet

 

[Leon]

None of what you are saying actually counters the points I have made.

Have never said anything about his work ethic or said anything that could equal not respecting where has come from.

Do you honestly think the majority of Boyd's clangers come from being under pressure? It's just not the case. He blazes away ad nauseum and often butchers simple passes under little to no pressure.

You say he is not a Judd or Ablett. This is my point - he gets the same amount of possessions from week to week as those guys but no one cares because he doesn't cause any damage.

Why is he continually playing like this? And I again will point out that he was playing like this even when we were a good side.

Are you really happy with what he produces from week to week because he is a hard worker and we're in a development year?

 

[King_snow]

Boyd in a good team is damaging, but in a team with kids they can't cover up his shitty kicks

 

[Zeno The Great]

whilst i get frustrated with his turnovers at times, to me he is the best captain choice by a country mile and he is not blessed with the natural ability of the leagues elite, but no one has got more out of themselves then he and cross, and that is all you ask for and hence why he is the captain, if every player on the list got the most out of their natural ability we would not be getting smashed by 70 pts every week.

I don' think the original post was hysterical and can understand to a point why it was raised, but perspective is needed and this guy out of any of our older players at least never puts in a stinker and tries until the final siren.

 

[nate drake]

Another shining example of our so-called "positive" supporters getting the knives out. A well-reasoned and worthwhile topic is raised - and out come the "hysterical" calls.

Of course he's our best choice as captain, but without the silk around him he's become ineffective for most of the season. Williams is a good defender when he has Lake and Morris at his side, but struggles without them. We're all happy to get the boots in then, aren't we?

 

[TempleKelvington]

He' a great choice for captain. He's never been a elite user of the footy. It's an area of his game that started to get worse when he hurt his hand a year or so ago. Agree he cost us again yesterday, but without him in the midfield we'd be far worse.

Yes he needs to get better by foot....especially when under little or no pressure.

Dennis Comittee summed up our group, that we have some good kids coming through, but none of them look to be superstars. Good solid players, but we'll need to draft in our next match winners. I think that is spot on.

Boyd is firmly in the category of good solid player, he is elite at some areas of his game, but not an elite player in the class of Ablett, Judd and the like. He's more a Cameron Ling type. Invaluable and you need a few of them in your team, but you need silk around them, other than Griff and the injured Cooney we have no real silk currently.

 

[acker]

He's got roughly the same DE% as Griffin, yes it's lower than the league standard but we would be a worse team without him.

The DE% (Disposal Efficiency) we see in newspapers + websites can be misleading

1. More handballs likely to increase DE% as your hitting closer targets than kicks
2. Forwards likely to have low DE% as they are often snapping or kicking to contests
3. Chipping ball backwards to players under no pressure lifts your DE%
4. DE% does not take into account hospital hand-passes where player takes it then is crunched

I remember a few years ago (when we were top 3) I saw some meters gained stats match and season where Gilbee was miles ahead of the other mid's + defenders

That type of stat which now is probably only available in a Prowess paid subscription or Internal club stats is a better indication of how much influence a player is having.

Main issues I have with Boyd and it is mostly to do with our current side continually struggling is his choice of options and hesitation he often has when he has got the ball in hand.

On the upside I like that Picken is having a bigger influence in the middle as he is usually a fairly good user of the ball by foot and does not hesitate as much when he has the ball in hand.

My personal opinion is Picken is perhaps where we should be looking for our next Captain

 

[Leon]

In response to various points made in reply to me:

The "we're rebuilding" argument.

I'm under no illusions as to the current state of the list and where we are at, I didn't expect us to make the 8 this year and expected that we would struggle a bit.

However, the fact that we are rebuilding does not mean that the current state of affairs at the club cannot be questioned. Saying "big whopping deal" to 8 straight losses, the majority of them beltings, does not wash with me at all.

If you have read any of my posts on here I have given McCartney a fair bit of leeway this year as I know that the list is poor and needs time to be worked on, and have strongly argued against those that have called for his head.

However, that atrocious performance against St Kilda a couple of weeks ago broke my back in many respects. This is not to say that I have changed my view on McCartney - I still want him given time, however things had to be questioned after that performance.

What the hell is our game plan? The St Kilda game made me question whether or not we even had one. Our players literally looked like they had no idea what they were meant to do in this game.

Why are we so stagnant in our ball movement? Why is our forward line and forward set up so poor?

Are we to accept having no systems, fluency or structures simply because we are rebuilding?

I don't think we are the worst side in the comp at the moment but I certainly think we are the worst to watch.

If it is just because our list is poor and we don't have the cattle, then I stand to be corrected, at least to some extent, next year if we draft and recruit well enough to show us that we are on the way to fixing the problem and having a coherent game plan.

Boyd

Boyd has many great qualities. He is a very hard worker and is to be admired and respected for rising from the Frankston 2's to become captain of our club.

You can tell that he loves the club a lot and that it hurts him just as much as it does us to see us struggling so badly. I have never, nor will I ever, question his work ethic or whether or not his heart is in the right place.

However, I really don't see what I have written about him in this thread is not true.

His disposal is average at best and atrocious at worst. It is simply not true that it is a result of being under pressure all the time.

Whilst I agree that the problems with Griffen and Cooney being absent means that his deficiencies will be more glaring, I still think he has been playing the way he is for way too long - even when we were in the top 4 and Cooney and Griffen were up and running.

For a player who is average by foot, he simply should not be played the way he currently is and should play much more within his limitations.

As Griffen is essentially our only damaging midfielder by foot now, it's got to be made a priority to get another silky midfielder to ease the load on Griffen and so that Boyd can play much more within his limitations i.e a defensive midfielder.

If we do this and Boyd still plays the way he does at the moment it's not going to help us.

 

[acker]

Years ago I remember Boyd being a pretty good long running shot at goal - perhaps pushing him forward rather than back perhaps in a Matthew Robbins like role may be where his future is

 

[UnCani]

He is the best weapon any opposition club has. He clears the ball for them 10 times per game from the center of the ground.

The other clubs we play need to chip and help us pay for his wage.

We pay for him and they get the benifit.

His will and determination are unquestionable.


HE IS A DUD FOOTBALLER. How often does he stuff up and you watch our players drop their heads. He is the captain ffs not a first year player.

 

[TMoney22]

He is the best weapon any opposition club has. He clears the ball for them 10 times per game from the center of the ground.

The other clubs we play need to chip and help us pay for his wage.

We pay for him and they get the benifit.

His will and determination are unquestionable.


HE IS A DUD FOOTBALLER. How often does he stuff up and you watch our players drop their heads. He is the captain ffs not a first year player.

wow i'd love to know what you think of the rest of the team

 

[Beasley]

None of what you are saying actually counters the points I have made.

Have never said anything about his work ethic or said anything that could equal not respecting where has come from.

Do you honestly think the majority of Boyd's clangers come from being under pressure? It's just not the case. He blazes away ad nauseum and often butchers simple passes under little to no pressure.

You say he is not a Judd or Ablett. This is my point - he gets the same amount of possessions from week to week as those guys but no one cares because he doesn't cause any damage.

Why is he continually playing like this? And I again will point out that he was playing like this even when we were a good side.

Are you really happy with what he produces from week to week because he is a hard worker and we're in a development year?

Leon, you couldn't have expressed my own thoughts any better. Boyd's woeful delivery of the ball when under no pressure happens far too often and it has been happening for several years ...... even when we were a good team!!!

It is not his work ethic that is being questioned ..... it is what he doesnt do with ball that is.

 

[Some Idiot]

The DE% (Disposal Efficiency) we see in newspapers + websites can be misleading

1. More handballs likely to increase DE% as your hitting closer targets than kicks
2. Forwards likely to have low DE% as they are often snapping or kicking to contests
3. Chipping ball backwards to players under no pressure lifts your DE%
4. DE% does not take into account hospital hand-passes where player takes it then is crunched

I remember a few years ago (when we were top 3) I saw some meters gained stats match and season where Gilbee was miles ahead of the other mid's + defenders


That type of stat which now is probably only available in a Prowess paid subscription or Internal club stats is a better indication of how much influence a player is having.

Main issues I have with Boyd and it is mostly to do with our current side continually struggling is his choice of options and hesitation he often has when he has got the ball in hand.

On the upside I like that Picken is having a bigger influence in the middle as he is usually a fairly good user of the ball by foot and does not hesitate as much when he has the ball in hand.

My personal opinion is Picken is perhaps where we should be looking for our next Captain

Griffen has been easily leading the metres gained stat over the last couple of years. Every now and then the herald sun show this stat.

 

[Footscrazy]

Griffen has been easily leading the metres gained stat over the last couple of years. Every now and then the herald sun show this stat.

Griff is probably in the top 5 AFL players in the last 5 years for meters gained.

 

[crownie]

sitting 7th in the AFLCA award with one round to go.

 

[fronkalicious]

Yep, no way could I be critical of this guy.

He's been rendered less effective by cooneys decline, the loss of harbrow, eagleton etc. he used to shovel the ball out to these guys who'd take off and deliver to johnno, Gia etc.

Now he beats 3 opponents to the pill and squeezes it out to clay, wallis, libba etc who bomb it down to slimmer and Dj......no surprises he's not quite as effective.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

He is the best weapon any opposition club has. He clears the ball for them 10 times per game from the center of the ground.

The other clubs we play need to chip and help us pay for his wage.

We pay for him and they get the benifit.

His will and determination are unquestionable.


HE IS A DUD FOOTBALLER. How often does he stuff up and you watch our players drop their heads. He is the captain ffs not a first year player.

I've read some crap on here before ....

 

[staphy]

On many occasions Boyds efficiency lets him down. But on the weekend against the Cats he had 46 disposals of which 37 were effective, the 37 effective disposals were the highest effective disposals of any player this year.
Sometimes we need to give credit when credit is due.

 

[Walsh Bay]

He's our skipper but the writing is on the wall.

What do we do with him? The role he plays in the side has better options now.

 

[Some Idiot]

Had the most contested possessions on the ground today from both teams. Young guys can't push him out yet.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Boyd's a good leader and a good contested ball winner. But when you have another 10 of them in the side, it means that all 10 of them are sharing the load of outside midfielders that we don't have.

 

[Libba39]

Boyd's a good leader and a good contested ball winner. But when you have another 10 of them in the side, it means that all 10 of them are sharing the load of outside midfielders that we don't have.

He just needs to handball more and stick to spotting up 20m passes out of the stoppages. Dane Swan is terrific but rarely kicks 50m bombs to contests.

 

[black pup]

When the opposition do not rate him tells you something, mate of mine in Geelong football department told me, we don't mind the ball in Boyds hands, he will never hurt you, more likely to hurt Bulldogs . We tag Griffen, we leave Boyd alone. Bulldogs know this, everyone else does. This bloke gets a free run each week. STATS LIE .

 

[LondonBulldog]

I'll include Cross as well.

Both were only ever B graders at their best
They are clearly in decline
The don't hurt the opposition, actually the opposition are happy to let them drop in holes to get cheap kids.
The club have over-rated both of these players for years.
The onballer team, although hard at it are the main reason we are down the bottom, too many slow one paced players.

Both should be thanked at the end of the year but the club needs to be strong and progress. Yet we are the family club, soft (dont make tough decision) so Boyd will still be there. Cross hopefully gone. Lets be honest we have given them great careers which they would not have had at a team like the Pies.

Possions mean nothing, its what you do with them. 5 Acker possesion are as good as 15 of Boyds.