Redo the 2001 Draft - The Greatest of All

[Claude Balls]

Ablett, Judd, Swan are top 3 and clear top 3.

These guys are generational players.

Swan is not a generational player like the other two, who are clear stand outs from this draft despite the immense depth of talent.

 

[banana_bus]

1. Ablett
1. Judd

Daylight

3. Bartel

4. Swan
5. Mitchell
6. Hodge

Daylight

7. Dal Santo
8. SJ

Daylight

The rest

Stevie has really only had 2-3 very good/elite seasons, while the rest have done it consistently since day dot.

Bartel was a monster for Geelong in their peak 5 years at the top, sure now his body isn't holding up as well and he's moved out of the middle, but anyone that has him behind Swan or Mitchell or Hodge didnt watch enough Geelong games.

 

[Hawkas1988]

Mitchell has definitely come on but he was much slower to start, I'd argue Dal Santo has had 10 good seasons to Mitchell's 8, so the 'whole time' statement is patently incorrect.

Mitchell won the rising star in 2003 and was a best and fairest player in 2006. He has been great from practically since he started. It's not hid fault the media finally realised how good he was since 08. Has been underrated for a long time and no club in their right mind would pick dal danto over mitchell.

 

[My North]

2001 good year for the draft

 

[skelly12]

Swan's major asset for me has been his consistency. But for impact on games, Hodge has him covered IMO. Hodge has also had a few more injury concerns over the years, and is a bit stiff not to have some more personal accolades on his CV.

So what you're saying is; Swan consistently doesn't impact games? Surely to be considered in this discussion, by nature, the player must impact games.... to say they are consistent is to say that they consistently perform at a high level.

 

[krisholio14]

So what you're saying is; Swan consistently doesn't impact games? Surely to be considered in this discussion, by nature, the player must impact games.... to say they are consistent is to say that they consistently perform at a high level.

If you're averaging 30+ touches a week, you're having an impact on games.

I just think Hodge has been a player who can lift a side on his back and do things that get them over the line.

For mine, Swan only added genuine match winning ability to his repertoire last season. Having said that, there's another reason why Swan is up there. He has continued to add to his game, to the point i'd argue last year was his best. Yet he didn't win the B&F, MVP or Brownlow like he did in 2010.

 

[Falchoon]

Mitchell won the rising star in 2003

17 possessions a game in the middle will win you the rising star, it doesn't make it a good season in the scheme of top end AFL talent.

and was a best and fairest player in 2006. He has been great from practically since he started. It's not hid fault the media finally realised how good he was since 08. Has been underrated for a long time and no club in their right mind would pick dal danto over mitchell.

no doubt he's been good since 2006, hence the 8 good seasons.

 

[HFF]

Swan is not a generational player like the other two, who are clear stand outs from this draft despite the immense depth of talent.

I beg to differ. These are the premium awards Swan has collected (not including smaller ones).

Brownlow winner 2011 (all time vote record holder), top 3 finish 2010 and 2013.
All-Australian 5 times (2009,2010,2011,2012,2013).
Triple best and fairest winner (2009,2010,2011).
2010 Premiership player.

With a bit of luck, he could have easily had a second Brownlow medal to his name.

These types of players are generational. They do not simply walk off the street and deliver these results. The guy is a modern day champion. One of the games best ever mids and deservedly sits in the very best company for what he has achieved.

 

[Watson_my_mind]

I beg to differ. These are the premium awards Swan has collected (not including smaller ones).

Brownlow winner 2011 (all time vote record holder), top 3 finish 2010 and 2013.
All-Australian 5 times (2009,2010,2011,2012,2013).
Triple best and fairest winner (2009,2010,2011).
2010 Premiership player.

With a bit of luck, he could have easily had a second Brownlow medal to his name.

These types of players are generational. They do not simply walk off the street and deliver these results. The guy is a modern day champion. One of the games best ever mids and deservedly sits in the very best company for what he has achieved.

He is not in the games "greatest ever mids" , he is considered one his generations greatest ever mids.

Gary Ablett Jnr is one of the games greatest ever mids. Bob Skilton. Hayden Bunton. Reynolds. Stewart. Williams. Harvey. Matthews. Bartlett. Dane Swan is not regarded in this company.

Swan's name is more alongside that of Ricciuto, Voss, Buckley, Cousins, Black.

 

[HFF]

He is not in the games "greatest ever mids" , he is considered one his generations greatest ever mids.

Gary Ablett Jnr is one of the games greatest ever mids. Bob Skilton. Hayden Bunton. Reynolds. Stewart. Williams. Harvey. Matthews. Bartlett. Dane Swan is not regarded in this company.

Swan's name is more alongside that of Ricciuto, Voss, Buckley, Cousins, Black.

In other words, he is one of the game's greatest ever mids because all of those names are some of the game's greatest ever mids.

 

[Hodgepodge]

no matter which one I were to use, you still would pick at it due to the very fact Bartel has not spent his entire career as a midfielder like Mitchell has done for Hawthorn.

Mitchell has been playing half-back this last year. His numbers haven't dropped there either, so there's no reason to even split stats into midfield and non-midfield.

The problem with Bartel is that he is not consistently elite. His overall averages don't dispel that truth.

 

[Bobby_]

Mitchell has been playing half-back this last year. His numbers haven't dropped there either, so there's no reason to even split stats into midfield and non-midfield.

well put it this way, Jimmy or Mitchell heading into a grand final....I think 75% of the general public would choose Bartel so you can have the extra 3 possessions Mitchell gets a game and do as you please podge.

 

[BM123]

well put it this way, Jimmy or Mitchell heading into a grand final....I think 75% of the general public would choose Bartel so you can have the extra 3 possessions Mitchell gets a game and do as you please podge.

This.

 

[Topper Harley]

well put it this way, Jimmy or Mitchell heading into a grand final....I think 75% of the general public would choose Bartel so you can have the extra 3 possessions Mitchell gets a game and do as you please podge.

I'd have it closer to 100%. Mitchell's Grand Final record is appalling, and is one of the major reasons he shouldn't be rated ahead of Bartel.

 

[WWSD]

I'd have it closer to 100%. Mitchell's Grand Final record is appalling, and is one of the major reasons he shouldn't be rated ahead of Bartel.

That's because Mitchell gets the number one tagger each week, as apposed to Bartel who doesn't.

 

[Topper Harley]

That's because Mitchell gets the number one tagger each week, as apposed to Bartel who doesn't.

not talking about each week, only Grand Finals. Mitchells disposal average drops by 10 possessions. Tag or not, that is alarming.

 

[WWSD]

not talking about each week, only Grand Finals. Mitchells disposal average drops by 10 possessions. Tag or not, that is alarming.

To be fair he's played on Ling who was the best tagger during his time and Crowley is a good tagger as well. It was always going to be tough for him to break the tag and as a result he had poor grand finals. He's always struggled when coming up against good taggers.

 

[Hawkas1988]

Gee the Mitchell bagging is rough. He is the reason along with Burgoyne we even got to the grand final. He was enormous against the cats in the prelim, I didn't see Jimmy do much then.

Bartel is a star, he is a big game player and was awesome in his peak years. It must be said he has consistency issues unlike Mitchell.

I think if you picked either one of them you would be wrapped. In most other drafts they would be the number 1 picked player such is the strength of this draft

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[Hodgepodge]

well put it this way, Jimmy or Mitchell heading into a grand final

Is irrelevant when discussing who the better player is. On Grand Final form Brad Sewell would be a better choice than Gary Ablett, this doesn't make Sewell the better player.

And we both know the only reason Mitchell hasn't played well in Grand Finals is because he is the No.1 target for taggers. It's the kind of attention Bartel doesn't get because he is not good enough.

 

[Claude Balls]

I beg to differ. These are the premium awards Swan has collected (not including smaller ones).

Brownlow winner 2011 (all time vote record holder), top 3 finish 2010 and 2013.
All-Australian 5 times (2009,2010,2011,2012,2013).
Triple best and fairest winner (2009,2010,2011).
2010 Premiership player.

With a bit of luck, he could have easily had a second Brownlow medal to his name.

These types of players are generational. They do not simply walk off the street and deliver these results. The guy is a modern day champion. One of the games best ever mids and deservedly sits in the very best company for what he has achieved.

I stated quite clearly that he wasn't a generational player "like the other two". You seemed to be saying that the three of them belong together ahead of the others (Mitchell and co.), and I am disputing that. I would have him at 3, but closer to Mitchell at 4 than to Judd at 2.

 

[Claude Balls]

In other words, he is one of the game's greatest ever mids because all of those names are some of the game's greatest ever mids.

In other words, he is one of the game's greatest ever mids because all of those names are some of the game's greatest ever mids.

Nonetheless one group is better, and Swan isn't in it. Just because he won a brownlow and made the AA 5 times doesn't make him one of the best ever in his position.

 

[Topper Harley]

Gee the Mitchell bagging is rough. He is the reason along with Burgoyne we even got to the grand final. He was enormous against the cats in the prelim, I didn't see Jimmy do much then.

Bartel is a star, he is a big game player and was awesome in his peak years. It must be said he has consistency issues unlike Mitchell.

I think if you picked either one of them you would be wrapped. In most other drafts they would be the number 1 picked player such is the strength of this draft

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I should have explained a little better rather than just abusing Mitchell for his poor GF record. I watched him rip our hearts out in the pre-lim, a performance that is one of the best finals games I've ever seen, and his overall finals record is very good.

It's a very close race between Mitchell & Bartel. Consistency and home and away performance certainly goes to Mitchell, but Bartel is ahead in Finals and big games. I'd take Bartel for this reason.

Bth are future AFL Hall of Famers in my book and you'd be absolutely ecstatic with either.

 

[Topper Harley]

I'd also like to see who'd you'd take for season 2014 only. I'd go something like this

1. Ablett
2. Johnson
3. Swan
4. Mitchell
5. Sandilands
6. Montagna
7. Bartel
8. Dal Santo
9. Hodge
10. Lake
11. Judd
12. Boyd

Pretty tricky exercise.

 

[Bobby_]

Is irrelevant when discussing who the better player is. On Grand Final form Brad Sewell would be a better choice than Gary Ablett

I'm amazed you continually throw around such meaningless arguments as Ablett was very close to becoming BOG in 2008, but how often does the losing teams player get rewarded with BOG? Very rarely.

2009 GF. . . he was quite handy in that one as well

 

[krisholio14]

I stated quite clearly that he wasn't a generational player "like the other two". You seemed to be saying that the three of them belong together ahead of the others (Mitchell and co.), and I am disputing that. I would have him at 3, but closer to Mitchell at 4 than to Judd at 2.

He's a clear future Hall Of Fame member, that makes him a generational player if you ask me.

However, Ablett and Judd are likely future Legends of the game.