Religious/Philosophical Discussion

[patfullfankezz]

Because if we're going to have a political thread we might as well go the whole hog.

Now, let me preface this by saying I'm a Catholic. Not a very devout one (anyone who has heard me at the footy can attest to that) but I do think there is a God.

And of course, I love to overthink things. So I've been thinking about where God came from. I know there are Atheists on here, and I can't understand how anyone, when we know so little about the Universe, can completely discount the notion that there is at least one God-like creature out there. Do I believe in the six-day theory? No. But I don't believe that our evolution wasn't meddled with by another more evolved being (or even beings). Some of things I've been thinking are:

1. Our God(s) were the last of His/their kind, which has either been decimated through war or disease, or even that other Gods have moved on to another Universe, got lonely and put together some planets and zapped one to create life. Highly unlikely IMO.

2. Our God(s) were just wandering through the cosmos one day and stumbled upon our planet, wherein they started interferring. Humans started getting smarter, and the God(s) started thinking "Uh oh, they could get on to us" and got out while the going was good. I think this one is the more likely of the two theories I have.

Who knows what we might find out in space when we're really able to explore it properly.

And all of that thinking has made my noggin hurt.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Raised Catholic, and free thought my way to atheism.

Empirical and theoretical science and humanist philosophy is the only way forward IMO.

The human disposition to use "gods" as a proxy for things they don't understand is a psychological flaw, albeit a comforting one for many... "the god of the gaps" as it is often referred to. Over time, science continually shines a light on the gaps, and more and more religious scripture that was once seen as having explanatory value gets relegated to "oh it's just a symbolic story, didn't you know..."

It is dubious whether our brains (which are marvelous in a relative sense but puny in a cosmological sense) will ever be capable of comprehending the entirety of it all. In fact, considering that our brains have evolved within that cosmos, it is probably impossible that we could ever comprehend it all (not without DMT anyway ). The linear view that we have of time means that most people will insist that everything must have a beginning, or a prime mover. And for many, they will plug the concept of a "god" in at that point, discounting the fact that if a prime mover is necessary, then god is a logical impossibility as well. After all, how was the creator created?

Even if you take a prime mover as granted (which is dubious considering what astrophysicists have, are are continuing to discover about space/time), the vocal intelligent design set (such as Ken Ham and Ray Comfort) can never logically justify the leap from Position A to Position B and then C.

Position A: Phliosophically, there has to be a prime mover... (again, highly contestable, but let's concede it for now).

Position B: Therefore, god exists.

Position C: Not only does god exist, but it just so happens to be MY particular God (Allah, Shiva, Yahweh, Christ, Zeus, Wotan...) and here is how he/she/it thinks you should live, what you can eat, who you can sleep with (and how), here is what happens when you die...

The leap from A to B and C is pure faith and is not philosophically or logically valid. I can therefore quietly ignore people who have come to the view that there must be "something" out there but they don't know what...

However, anyone who claims with certainty to speak on behalf of God and purports to have all the answers, and seeks to impose that on others is an enemy of reason and should be immediately distrusted.

 

[Hollow Knight]

FWIW Kezz, atheism isn't the certainty that there is no god, nor the assertion that god is an impossibility. It is merely the position that there is no empirical evidence that supports the existence of an interventionist god. A very scientifically valid position to take. We aren't born believing in god. The natural starting position is (at the very least) agnosticism (and arguably atheism).

On the other hand, "you can't disprove that god exists" is a bit of a nothing philosophy which Bertrand Russell dealt with nicely with the "Celestial Teapot" argument.

The burden of proof lies on those making the exceptional claim, and in the absence of evidence, the exceptional claim is that an interventionist god exists.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The great deception by the faithful is claiming that atheists are the arrogant ones.

The atheist and scientific position is "in the absence of evidence, it would be foolish to believe, let alone claim to be certain and impose our view on others... how about we actually try to find out what is going on". That, to me, is humble.

The position of the devoutly religious (at least with the monotheistic religions) is that they claim to have all the answers and know for a certainty that THEIR particular god exists and that said god cares acutely about them as individuals and has a plan for them.

Claiming to be certain with no evidence, especially in a world where so many other contradictory faiths claim the the same level of absolute certainty... now that is ARROGANT.

 

[SizeMatters]

Islam is the future. With ever increasing catholics / christians etc moving towards a atheists mind set and the ever increasing fanatics of Islam it won't be long before the majority of the world is suppressed under the teachings of Islam and the male dominate society. Thank god I won't be around to witness the chaos that will ensue. I feel sorry for the future generations that won't have free press/thought but are instilled with fear from sharia law. Give it time and it will happen.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Islam is the future. With ever increasing catholics / christians etc moving towards a atheists mind set and the ever increasing fanatics of Islam it won't be long before the majority of the world is suppressed under the teachings of Islam and the male dominate society. Thank god I won't be around to witness the chaos that will ensue. I feel sorry for the future generations that won't have free press/thought but are instilled with fear from sharia law. Give it time and it will happen.

I don't think so Tim. Sounds like you've been listening to too much 4BC talkback radio.

By the way, while we are on the topic of misogynistic religions that promote male dominance... read the Bible lately?

 

[POBT]

I was born a snake handler and I'll die a snake handler.

 

[SizeMatters]

I am a geologist and I laugh at the religious claims that the earth is 10 thousand years old. I believe in nothing but facts.

 

[SizeMatters]

I don't think so Tim. Sounds like you've been listening to too much 4BC talkback radio.

By the way, while we are on the topic of misogynistic religions that promote male dominance... read the Bible lately?

The western world is built on the bible. It seems to be doing fine with regards to equal rights compared to Islam. Have you seen England lately? What about France where something like 60% of those under the age of 18 are Islamic where some say it will be the first European nation to be under sharia law. I have seen reports where they practice Sharia in Marseilles and disregard the national laws. This is the problem the Western world will see in the next 50 years with all our bleeding hearts letting in immigrants that WILL NOT follow their host nations laws and customs. I am all for immigration to an extent, but only to those that will improve our nation such as degrees and skills in work shortages. I'm glad that some nations in the EU are starting to click on and enforce a more strict immigration policy to inhibit these parasites.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The western world is built on the bible.

Is it? I would have thought that classical Greek and Roman political philosophy has been more informative, as was the enlightenment.

It seems to be doing fine with regards to equal rights compared to Islam.

- Rights of a woman to have control over her own body and for those who assist with family planning to not be subject to terrorist acts
- Rights of women in developing countries to contraception.
- Rights of people with terminal illness to end their life with dignity
- Rights of children not to be terrified and psychologically damaged by threats of burning for an eternity
- Rights of sufferers of terrible diseases to have a cure found
- Rights of students to learn pure science in science class.
- Rights of all fraternal organisations to benefit from tax free status (why is believing in a sky fairy a pre-requisite)
- Rights of young male children to not have their genitals mutilated (still carried out by many Christians)

Just a few quick examples off the top of my head where Christianity impedes on rights in a socio-political sense.

 

[ZoBlitz]

I think the Society, Religion and Politics board might be a better location for this discussion people.