Richmond - A patchwork of Ordinary

[Damon_3388]

Why bring in a bloke like M.Thomas?

Because they needed someone who can win the hard contested ball and dish it out to those with more polish, along with tackling and defensive work too. He's given a good account of himself so far, possibly far better than anything he did while listed with Port Adelaide (aside from winning the Magarey Medal).

 

[Ron The Bear]

They always say you need at least 10 midfielders in a team. Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Conca, Ellis, Jackson pretty good top 6.

After that - Grigg and Edwards are just players. Foley barely AFL standard anymore in Hardwick's eyes I'd say. That's only 9. As a side in the 8 and around top 4 I think Richmond owed it to themselves to recruit Thomas and Gordon as ready made guys.

The bigger problem is O'Hanlon, McDonough, Arnot, Helbig - not a lot happening there for young fresh midfielders. Also what they don't need is recycled flanker types like Petterd, Knights who don't stay on the park, old battlers like Newman and King and young flankers like Bachelor, Dea and McIntosh who seem to be going nowhere. No way do you need that much trash on their list. Geelong have the proven model - draft midfielders, develop them in the VFL as midfielders capable of versatile positioning and then play young midfielders as small defenders and small forwards besides from a couple of specialists at those positions. Then you get a consistent team of young players capable of running, tackling and taking the game on at all positions.

A fair call, probably. A knowledgeable person said similar to me after Round 1, not enough quality mids. But the ones we have are showing no dare, it's like they're trying to play to some safe formula. If Hardwick's forced to return to a development focus, a failed 2014 might not be such a bad thing.

McDonough must be played. Hardwick lost heart after one game.

 

[nineteen eighty]

They've just picked up too many rejects that are never going to be best 22 in Petterd, Stephenson, A.Edwards, Lonergan combined with their aging list cloggers in King, Newman and Foley. That's 7 spots that should have been given to untried talent.

Richmond justify this tactic as just recruiting for depth but when you look at Collingwood's depth you see that they are using kids such as Langdon, Dwyer, Witts and Thomas. Its the same with Essendon who've used Gleeson, Ashby, Daniher, Merrett and Ambrose as depth.

They need to cut their list clogger's and actually spend a time investing in youth if they ever want to be the real deal.

I think you will find most Tiger supporters have no issue with picking up "rejects" for depth on the list. However, almost all those Tigers supporters do not agree that they should all be getting a game at the same time. It's a real issue IMO and I don't why they are all in the team with the kids not getting the game. Could it be that our draft picks are simply just not up to it? Hardwick was fantastic in teaching the kids how to play. I think he needs to introduce a few of them into the team...they simply can't do any worse than some of those playing.

 

[Thetruth14]

Do you know what I'm looking forward to.

Dimma's Dissection

Here's an idea Dimma, try coaching effectively, try implementing a game plan that isn't slow in it's design, possession based and meant to be carried out by a team which lacks quality ball users.

The great man said this.

The worse they are the quicker you kick the ball in.

Given how purely poor Vickery is, he needs that ball in extremely quick.

 

[bombermick]

They need to replace their recruiters and/or their methods. Blair Hartley gets a pass for identifying talent from other clubs, but the Tiger's recruiting after the first round is abysmal. Going nowhere until this changes.

 

[getthefooty]

Richmond are fundamentally s**t. They're the biggest under performers of the modern era. At least Freo copped what it deserved and the Saints have actually played in a few Grannies over the years. But Richmond continue to be mentally fragile, to accept total mediocrity, and give games to total spuds. Their development has been average. They can't pick very good players. They are one of the least intimidating clubs in the country who promise everything, laugh about not getting there, then never actually go anywhere.

Cotchin is a good player but he's seriously overrated. He's soft, doesn't do the things a captain should, doesn't win games off his own boot and will only have a burster when the rest of the side does. If he was in Hawthorn or Freo's midfield he'd be a lot better, but he's not charismatic enough to carry the side. Overrated.

Deledio's alright but way too inconsistent. Doesn't influence games enough.

Maric is nothing more than an acceptable ruck who lives off a dumb haircut that was funny for about a game.

Ty Vickery is a punce of the highest order. For a bloke so big he fails to actually impose himself. Having him as some great white hope is setting yourself up for some serious disappointment.

Giving Robbie bloody Nahas a game for so long says enough about them. Keeping Jake King around says even more. Not only is he one of the worst 100 game players ever, he's a detriment to their image and nothing but a bogan. Most clubs would get rid of a player associating with bikies. At least those boys at the Eagles tried to do it discreetly.

Richmond's worst 10 are appallingly bad. Just s**t. And for the last 15 years it's been their worst players who have cost them. They're not good enough to be at AFL level and they just keep getting games. It's baffling.

Dusty Martin could probably win a Brownlow, and actually deserve it, if he wanted to. But instead he'll be a wasted talent who sits on a half back line instead of bossing a midfield every game. He can barely run out a quarter without dragging his shorts over his knees. He has an incredible kick, this natural inability to be tackled and that enviable balance. But he won't amount to the actual charismatic, game-winning leader the Tiges need. So it's a moot point.

Plus Hardwick is also a pretty average coach. How he's escaped criticism confounds me – five seasons and one lost final isn't an endearing track record.

The Tigers are going nowhere fast. They won't be top four, won't win a flag... they are just pretenders. Total pretenders. Good song though.

lol. Hope it felt good to write all that crap out. You really have a huge penchant for exaggeration sometimes. Beneath the adjectives, adverbs and hyperbole there really isn't anything much there.

 

[MightyTiger]

It's cute that you are trying to hide your insecurities of your own team by putting down a player from another. Maybe focus on why you're team is so shite before you start spouting irrelevant nonsense. BTW Jobe can eat as many Snickers he wants, still doesn't change the fact he is one of the best players in the comp

Merely pointing out that taking pot shots at Cotchin while he's had a rough start to the year and calling him over-rated is simply nonsense, he's rated by his peers, AFL players, AFL captains such as Jobe Watson, in the top10 players in the AFL, sure, he hasn't had the best start to the year, but he's still very very young, and not many players in his age bracket carry such a heavy burden and still be able to perform week in week out.

 

[MightyTiger]

Jobe wasn't a top 2 draft pick.

Where Cotchin was drafted has nothing to do with it, Jobe also hasn't had the injury struggles Cotchin has had either since being drafted.

I also don't seem to remember us talking up Jobe as the next coming of Christ.

No, that's because before Jobe came good a few years ago you would have though Jobe swallowed Christ whole himself, I'm simply trying to point out that taking pot shots at a kid so young is simply stupid, blind freddy can see that Cotchin isn't the problem, lets have this discussion again in 10 years and see if people still think he's over-rated.

 

[joebull]

They need to replace their recruiters and/or their methods. Blair Hartley gets a pass for identifying talent from other clubs, but the Tiger's recruiting after the first round is abysmal. Going nowhere until this changes.

we are a team at the moment well down in confidence , this year might be a downer, but we can always come back next year, lennon will have 12 montths under his belt, McDonough, and a few others are ripe to come on, we have the salary cap latitude to recruit a player like gibbs etc, and i wouldn't get too cocky, if I remember Essendon have a habit of starting off okay , then dying in the arse, don't get too ahead of yourself picking s**t , as it might come back to bite you in the arse

 

[Richo83]

Richmond have been wretched this season, not only have they been worse than 2013, they've regressed to a point behind their 2012 form as well. Whole team is stinking up the joint and has only Carlton for company in terms of how under performed. Even Sydney have been better, what the hell Richmond? I thought Richmond was over this.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Where Cotchin was drafted has nothing to do with it, Jobe also hasn't had the injury struggles Cotchin has had either since being drafted.

Yeah, it kind of does.

A top draft pick is expected to turn into a good player and have an impact from year two-three. Jobe turning into the player he has was a complete surprise. So it's fair enough that Jobe took a while to get going, whereas Cotchin as a top 2 draft pick should be expected to perform from the outset.

No, that's because before Jobe came good a few years ago you would have though Jobe swallowed Christ whole himself, I'm simply trying to point out that taking pot shots at a kid so young is simply stupid, blind freddy can see that Cotchin isn't the problem, lets have this discussion again in 10 years and see if people still think he's over-rated.

Can you please point out where I've blamed Cotchin for Richmond's current troubles?

He's a good player. He tries his best each week. He's also incredibly overrated by Richmond supporters who think he's going to be the next legend of the game. Hey, maybe he will; unlikely, but it's possible. He's nowhere near it at the moment.

He has flaws in his game that seem to go unnoticed or are ignored by Richmond supporters who think the sun shines out of his ass. His kicking is shoddy, he enjoys cheap uncontested garbage stats that do nothing to help the team, he struggles under a tight tag (not helped by his teammate's pathetic efforts to help him out).

Once again Richmond supporters proving that Cotchin is a protected species - can't call him anything but a superstar or you're taking potshots.

 

[MightyHawks]

Don't understand the thread

Richmond having a great start to the year
Crowds are good
Membership is good

Keep it up!

 

[MightyTiger]

quote="Jobe Watson, post: 32537224, member: 81083"]Yeah, it kind of does.

A top draft pick is expected to turn into a good player and have an impact from year two-three. Jobe turning into the player he has was a complete surprise. So it's fair enough that Jobe took a while to get going, whereas Cotchin as a top 2 draft pick should be expected to perform from the outset.

Bulldust, once you're drafted you're just another player on an AFL list who has to work just as hard as the next person to make it.

Can you please point out where I've blamed Cotchin for Richmond's current troubles?

I never stated you did, but it's kind of hard not to get a tad defensive when the thread is about picking up other clubs rejects and whether or not it works and it somehow turns into a thread about Cotchin.

He's a good player. He tries his best each week. He's also incredibly overrated by Richmond supporters who think he's going to be the next legend of the game. Hey, maybe he will; unlikely, but it's possible. He's nowhere near it at the moment.

No, he's a very good player, rated in the top10 of the AFL, a good player is your run of the mill standard depth player, and please point out to me where we have said he's going to be the next legend of the game? At the moment he's just a very good (star) player amongst a competition where it is littered with star and elite players.

He has flaws in his game that seem to go unnoticed or are ignored by Richmond supporters who think the sun shines out of his ass. His kicking is shoddy, he enjoys cheap uncontested garbage stats that do nothing to help the team, he struggles under a tight tag (not helped by his teammate's pathetic efforts to help him out).

Hey, check my posting history, I'm one of the one's who doesn't think the sun shines out of our star players asses, defensively he doesn't run hard enough at times, his kicking can let him down, especially his goal kicking which has gone completely south since 2013, but I will never, ever, question his hardness, or his ability in tight, and this uncontested garbage you talk of is a load of s**t, he is always the first one to jump under a pack, I wonder what your thought's are on your Captain who averages 11 contested possessions and 19.7 uncontested possessions a game.

Once again Richmond supporters proving that Cotchin is a protected species - can't call him anything but a superstar or you're taking potshots.

He's not a protected species, it's just very odd that people would single out Cotchin, and once again, you're putting words in peoples mouths.

 

[Rich01]

Mathew Knights - has done a 1st class job at Geelong - fast tracking the young talent - Joel Selwood speaks glowingly of him - give him the job - and he will put an emphasis on skillfull young players- which Richmond need plenty of - not these tired old hacks

You have no clue of Knights coaching philosophy but push him forward because Selwood is a fan?

Hope you aren't responsible for making any business critical decisions in your line of work .

 

[Mr.X]

Still a chance for finals

 

[Mr.X]

soft draw, can turn it around fairly quickly

Sent from a device with a web browser installed

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Still a chance for finals

So are Carlton, Melbourne and everyone else.

Based on the first 4 rounds, they are gone.

 

[jko'neal]

soft draw, can turn it around fairly quickly

Sent from a device with a web browser installed

Plus there will be a mega traffic jam in and outside the 8, doubt there will be too many going on winning sprees.

 

[Rich01]

How many touches did he get in the 2nd half of the Carlton game when the pressure was turned up and the game was on the line?

This. Friday night also to an extent- although others needed to give him a chop out - perhaps exposes the leadership issue at RFC even further.

Captains stand up when the game is there to be won. Just like the Essendon match today. Watson 5 touches in the 2nd and 3rd Qtrs when the game was there to be won. Shows how important Goddard is to their on field leadership. What a good pick up.

Blokes like Pendlebury and Hodge just stamp themselves on a game when the game is there to be won.
Not just when blokes around them have already lifted.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I'm singling out Cotchin as a player who is rated much higher than the level he actually plays at. He's not the cause of your problems.

You can raise and lower players' ratings on the evidence of a single game and you'll be kept busy every week. In nearly forty years of following the club, no Richmond player has consistently shown more desperation at the contest than Cotchin. As the second-youngest captain in the club's history, there are no doubt facets of his leadership that could do with some improvement, just as there are elements of his game that need work. No he is not, as I heard on the radio last year, "head and shoulders above the rest of the competition with Ablett as the player around". But he is continually striving to get there.

The media in general, love him and that can cause some people to take a set against him. I know it has that effect on me, when a player is continually lauded and his shortcomings glossed over. But the example Cotchin sets on the field is above reproach. As you say, he's not to blame for Richmond's woes.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Merely pointing out that taking pot shots at Cotchin while he's had a rough start to the year and calling him over-rated is simply nonsense, he's rated by his peers, AFL players, AFL captains such as Jobe Watson, in the top10 players in the AFL, sure, he hasn't had the best start to the year, but he's still very very young, and not many players in his age bracket carry such a heavy burden and still be able to perform week in week out.

Agree with this. From the top of my head, Patrick Dangerfield, Trent Cotchin and Dayne Beams are just about the only 3 midfielders born in 1990(still quite young if born that year) onwards who are expected to play at an All Australian week in, week out.


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[master bate]

This. Friday night also to an extent- although others needed to give him a chop out - perhaps exposes the leadership issue at RFC even further.

Captains stand up when the game is there to be won. Just like the Essendon match today. Watson 5 touches in the 2nd and 3rd Qtrs when the game was there to be won. Shows how important Goddard is to their on field leadership. What a good pick up.

Blokes like Pendlebury and Hodge just stamp themselves on a game when the game is there to be won.
Not just when blokes around them have already lifted.

Surely you aren't picking one average Watson game and saying he doesn't stand up when the game is on the line. Watson has done it as much as Pendlebury, Hodge, Selwood anyone over the last few years.

But most of the true top 4 clubs do have more than one reliable player. So if your point was that Goddard and Watson share the burden then that's fine.

Anyway I'm confused to what your point is. Just wanted to say that you can't have a go at Jobe for not standing up in big moments.

 

[master bate]

Agree with this. From the top of my head, Patrick Dangerfield, Trent Cotchin and Dayne Beams are just about the only 3 midfielders born in 1990(still quite young if born that year) onwards who are expected to play at an All Australian week in, week out.


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Rockliff - but as Brisbane are in Brisbane the care factor is less. Hannebery, but he's not the leader of Sydney's midfield so probably doesn't have the same expectations. Hamish Hartlett but Boak and co share the load. And maybe the best of the lot in Fyfe.

I think Fyfe and Beams are the 2 who people expect them to play well every week due to talent.

Dangerfield and Cotchin are 2 who people expect to play well based on talent and based on them being the head and shoulders star player and captain (even if temporary in Dangers case). These two have had the bar set very high by the likes of Ablett, Watson, the early days of Judd at Carlton and to a lesser extent Callan Ward at GWS. Not every one of them will live up to that expectation.

 

[MightyTiger]

Agree with this. From the top of my head, Patrick Dangerfield, Trent Cotchin and Dayne Beams are just about the only 3 midfielders born in 1990(still quite young if born that year) onwards who are expected to play at an All Australian week in, week out.


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It's ridiculously stupid how much pressure we put onto these kids expecting them to perform week in week out racking up 30 disposals and kicking 3 goals 10 clearances and 15 tackles and soon as they deviate from that they're over-rated.

It takes most top line AFL players a good 10+ years in the system before they become really consistant performs week in week out, Pendlebury, Thomas, Ablett, Kelly, Johnson, Watson and the list goes on. The only person to buck that trend is Judd, but how many of his ilk come along in our lifetime.

 

[Rioli magic]

It takes most top line AFL players a good 10+ years in the system before they become really consistant performs week in week out, Pendlebury, Thomas, Ablett, Kelly, Johnson, Watson and the list goes on. The only person to buck that trend is Judd, but how many of his ilk come along in our lifetime.

I hope that's a typo.