Play Nice Richmond, set to become the biggest club in Australia, now with 100K members

[Ron The Bear]

You played them at the MCG and got 36k.
That was also the year after you made it to the Grand Final.

Going to play devil's advocate here and mention that kids were given free entry on Sunday. There were a lot in attendance. My mate who usually stands, took his daughter to her first game.

Richmond doesn't have a history of drawing well against non-Victorian clubs, so 38K v Gold Coast - arguably the AFL's most faceless club - was an excellent crowd regardless.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Going to play devil's advocate here and mention that kids were given free entry on Sunday. There were a lot in attendance. My mate who usually stands, took his daughter to her first game.

Richmond doesn't have a history of drawing well against non-Victorian clubs, so 38K v Gold Coast - arguably the AFL's most faceless club - was an excellent crowd regardless.

We're not too bad. 35k v Giants, 39k v Freo, 45k v Eagles

 

[Ron The Bear]

We're not too bad. 35k v Giants, 39k v Freo, 45k v Eagles

Been good this year, think those are all records. Hopefully the floaters buy memberships next year.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Because they are not relevent to home games in Victoria are they?

Why cant Richmond draw 40,000 plus to home games against non Victorian clubs.

Hawthorn has 'only' done it 8 times (above)

...supposedly we dont play any home games against non Victorian clubs outside Tasmania

I know this thread is a bit of harmless fun and games but to be honest it is not a case of Richmond CAN'T draw 40,000 whereas hawthorn CAN.

It is a case of Richmond HASN'T whereas Hawthorn HAS.

Why the difference? hawthorn drew those crowds while flying. Richmond rarely if ever fly.

Same venue, same opposition, same form, same expectation, same weather who would draw the bigger crowd? Richmond would. I think we all know that. To deny this is to deny the blatantly evident reality that attendance is driven by form and expectation.

hawthorn to its great credit has drawn well whilst surfing a superb period of great form and massive expectation. Attendance outliers posted against that backdrop are no guide to a "par" and no real evidence for comparison. Leaving aside the knockabout fun this is the reality of it.

 

[bradydaw91]

I know this thread is a bit of harmless fun and games but to be honest it is not a case of Richmond CAN'T draw 40,000 whereas hawthorn CAN.

It is a case of Richmond HASN'T whereas Hawthorn HAS.

Why the difference? hawthorn drew those crowds while flying. Richmond rarely if ever fly.

Same venue, same opposition, same form, same expectation, same weather who would draw the bigger crowd? Richmond would. I think we all know that. To deny this is to deny the blatantly evident reality that attendance is driven by form and expectation.

hawthorn to its great credit has drawn well whilst surfing a superb period of great form and massive expectation. Attendance outliers posted against that backdrop are no guide to a "par" and no real evidence for comparison. Leaving aside the knockabout fun this is the reality of it.

The only times Hawthorn draws well in games against the historically lower drawing clubs is when they play teams like Sydney and Geelong, when both teams are at the peak of their powers. Hell if i lived in Melbourne(other then going to the tiges game), if the hawks were playing a top 4 blockbuster, that would be the game i would go to. Just look at their crowds drop off significantly against the minnows clubs, how can people not see this ??!

 

[Tigersman]

Who's the bigger club is not really the issue. The more clubs doing well the better. It's the ever widening gap between the big clubs and the minnows which is concerning.

 

[Bazzar]

Who's the bigger club is not really the issue. The more clubs doing well the better. It's the ever widening gap between the big clubs and the minnows which is concerning.

Thats why it must be a worry for the smaller clubs like the Dogs and North. At least North have a foot in the Tassie door.

 

[gaelictiogar]

The only times Hawthorn draws well in games against the historically lower drawing clubs is when they play teams like Sydney and Geelong, when both teams are at the peak of their powers. Hell if i lived in Melbourne(other then going to the tiges game), if the hawks were playing a top 4 blockbuster, that would be the game i would go to. Just look at their crowds drop off significantly against the minnows clubs, how can people not see this ??!

Fact is that the Hawks when playing in Victoria have drawn very good crowds on occasion against inter states. Hawkk quoted their stats above drawing attention to 40K turn outs.


While he quoted accurately what he didn't do was provide context. if we exclude Sydney which in truth draw as well in Melbourne as the minnow Vic clubs the Hawks have broken 40K twice V interstates.

Last years 43K V Freo in Round 3. Context. Hawks were flag holding and 2 from 2 going into that game.

A superb 50K V WCE in 2012. Context: final round ladder topping Hawthorn hosting a WCE in 5th playing for a top 4 place.

Look at Sydney. Hawthorn have drawn superbly V Sydney. Context. 4 successive finals meetings including 2 Grannies in 2011/14.

The 63K this year was 6th hosting 3rd in a GF repeat.

It would be almost impossible to design better scenarios in which to draw a crowd. Exceptional circumstances found exceptional crowd figures. Such turnouts are totally unrepeatable unless against a backdrop of flag holding/flag favouritism.

We can only sensibly discuss where the Hawks sit in the scheme of things when we recognise this.

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

You guys are right. Hawthorn supporters do not turn up when playing minnows.

However, hawthorn will become the greatest supported club in terms of membership. This is an inevitability. Too many successful stretches of time. Hawks have been pretty good since 2007 really.

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[Hawkk]

The only times Hawthorn draws well in games against the historically lower drawing clubs is when they play teams like Sydney and Geelong, when both teams are at the peak of their powers. Hell if i lived in Melbourne(other then going to the tiges game), if the hawks were playing a top 4 blockbuster, that would be the game i would go to. Just look at their crowds drop off significantly against the minnows clubs, how can people not see this ??!

Not exactly true at all...

To be frank its far from true...

Hawthorn has drawn consistently strongly against all clubs at the MCG since the mid 2000's. Naturally this is due in no small part to our on field success but to say that Hawthorn has not drawn strongly is nonetheless a flat out lie

 

[Hawkk]

Fact is that the Hawks when playing in Victoria have drawn very good crowds on occasion against inter states. Hawkk quoted their stats above drawing attention to 40K turn outs.


While he quoted accurately what he didn't do was provide context. if we exclude Sydney which in truth draw as well in Melbourne as the minnow Vic clubs the Hawks have broken 40K twice V interstates.

Last years 43K V Freo in Round 3. Context. Hawks were flag holding and 2 from 2 going into that game.

A superb 50K V WCE in 2012. Context: final round ladder topping Hawthorn hosting a WCE in 5th playing for a top 4 place.

Look at Sydney. Hawthorn have drawn superbly V Sydney. Context. 4 successive finals meetings including 2 Grannies in 2011/14.

The 63K this year was 6th hosting 3rd in a GF repeat.

It would be almost impossible to design better scenarios in which to draw a crowd. Exceptional circumstances found exceptional crowd figures. Such turnouts are totally unrepeatable unless against a backdrop of flag holding/flag favouritism.

We can only sensibly discuss where the Hawks sit in the scheme of things when we recognise this.

Agreed.

But in the context of the poster I was responding too (who lets for the sake of comparison term the 'inaccurate one') claiming that Hawthorn does not play non Victorian clubs in Melbourne is well a falsehood. The reality is that since 2007 Hawthorn has played 23 home games in Melbourne against non Victorian opposition and has drawn more than 38,000 on average to those games.

Drawing 40,000 plus to these type of fixtures isn't easily attendable. Of the 10 Victorian clubs...

Collingwood 36 (14 50k plus)
Essendon 24 (5 50k plus)
Hawthorn 10 (5 50k plus)
Richmond 7 (0 50k plus)
Carlton 5 (0 50k plus)
Melbourne 3 (1 50k plus)
St Kilda 2 (1 50k plus)
N Melbourne 1 (0 50k plus)
Geelong 0
W Bulldogs 0

Now that Adelaide, Port Adelaide (and in time Fremantle and West Coast) now regularly draw 40,000 plus to home fixtures it really makes a mockery of Collingwood, Essendon or Richmond considering themselves 'the biggest club in Australia'

In terms of Victoria there is a big 2 (Collingwood / Essendon) a gap to Richmond, Hawthorn / Carlton and a sizeable gap to Melbourne / St Kilda

 

[bombersfan4000]

Agreed.

But in the context of the poster I was responding too (who lets for the sake of comparison term the 'inaccurate one') claiming that Hawthorn does not play non Victorian clubs in Melbourne is well a falsehood. The reality is that since 2007 Hawthorn has played 23 home games in Melbourne against non Victorian opposition and has drawn more than 38,000 on average to those games.

Drawing 40,000 plus to these type of fixtures isn't easily attendable. Of the 10 Victorian clubs...

Collingwood 36 (14 50k plus)
Essendon 24 (5 50k plus)
Hawthorn 10 (5 50k plus)
Richmond 7 (0 50k plus)
Carlton 5 (0 50k plus)
Melbourne 3 (1 50k plus)
St Kilda 2 (1 50k plus)
N Melbourne 1 (0 50k plus)
Geelong 0
W Bulldogs 0

Now that Adelaide, Port Adelaide (and in time Fremantle and West Coast) now regularly draw 40,000 plus to home fixtures it really makes a mockery of Collingwood, Essendon or Richmond considering themselves 'the biggest club in Australia'

position on the ladder & recent success, fact how Essendon & richmond are still pulling crowds and support they have makes them large teams! the hawks success comes with bandwagon fans

 

[Hawkk]

position on the ladder & recent success, fact how Essendon & richmond are still pulling crowds and support they have makes them large teams! the hawks success comes with bandwagon fans

Essendon are still pulling okay crowds but they are an absolute shadow of their former self

If Port Adelaide and Adelaide can flatline at 35,000 they will leave all Victorian clubs for dead in terms of matchday support

 

[Rezza Tiger]

Not exactly true at all...

To be frank its far from true...

Hawthorn has drawn consistently strongly against all clubs at the MCG since the mid 2000's. Naturally this is due in no small part to our on field success but to say that Hawthorn has not drawn strongly is nonetheless a flat out lie

These numbers suggest differently

Hawthorn past 3 seasons against low drawing clubs outside the 8

2015
Melbourne 41935

2014
Melbourne 37088
GWS 17906
St.Kilda 32924

2013
Melbourne 28546
Gold Coast 28112

Average: 31,085

Richmond past 3 seasons against low drawing clubs outside the 8

2015
Gold Coast 38508
GWS 35968
Melbourne 58175

2014
St.Kilda 47200
Melbourne 56910
GWS 23095

2013
Brisbane 46961
St.Kilda 52184
Adelaide 43615
Melbourne 39148
St.Kilda 56783

Average: 45,322

There pretty abysmal numbers for Hawthorn especially considering they are premiership years. They would be even lower if you didn't offload games to Tassie. You guys will be in real trouble if you can't sustain this success. Our numbers are on par with Collingwood

 

[Hawkk]

These numbers suggest differently

Hawthorn past 3 seasons against low drawing clubs outside the 8

2015
Melbourne 41935

2014
Melbourne 37088
GWS 17906
St.Kilda 32924

2013
Melbourne 28546
Gold Coast 28112

Average: 31,085

Richmond past 3 seasons against low drawing clubs outside the 8

2015
Gold Coast 38508
GWS 35968
Melbourne 58175

2014
St.Kilda 47200
Melbourne 56910
GWS 23095

2013
Brisbane 46961
St.Kilda 52184
Adelaide 43615
Melbourne 39148
St.Kilda 56783

Average: 45,322

There pretty abysmal numbers for Hawthorn especially considering they are premiership years. Our numbers are on par with Collingwood

Of course those numbers are relative (as are your crap numbers against Sydney)

Melbourne, St Kilda are going to rock up to games where they think they'll account for Richmond...they are not going to rock up to games where they expect to lose by 25 goals (as we saw with Carlton v Hawthorn 3-4 weeks ago )

 

[Rezza Tiger]

Agreed.

But in the context of the poster I was responding too (who lets for the sake of comparison term the 'inaccurate one') claiming that Hawthorn does not play non Victorian clubs in Melbourne is well a falsehood. The reality is that since 2007 Hawthorn has played 23 home games in Melbourne against non Victorian opposition and has drawn more than 38,000 on average to those games.

Drawing 40,000 plus to these type of fixtures isn't easily attendable. Of the 10 Victorian clubs...

Collingwood 36 (14 50k plus)
Essendon 24 (5 50k plus)
Hawthorn 10 (5 50k plus)
Richmond 7 (0 50k plus)
Carlton 5 (0 50k plus)
Melbourne 3 (1 50k plus)
St Kilda 2 (1 50k plus)
N Melbourne 1 (0 50k plus)
Geelong 0
W Bulldogs 0

Now that Adelaide, Port Adelaide (and in time Fremantle and West Coast) now regularly draw 40,000 plus to home fixtures it really makes a mockery of Collingwood, Essendon or Richmond considering themselves 'the biggest club in Australia'

In terms of Victoria there is a big 2 (Collingwood / Essendon) a gap to Richmond, Hawthorn / Carlton and a sizeable gap to Melbourne / St Kilda

There's a mockery being made but it's the other way around. We're suburban clubs outdrawing state teams. Richmond and Collingwood regularly draw 50000+ to home fixtures.

 

[Rezza Tiger]

Of course those numbers are relative (as are your crap numbers against Sydney)

Melbourne, St Kilda are going to rock up to games where they think they'll account for Richmond...they are not going to rock up to games where they expect to lose by 25 goals (as we saw with Carlton v Hawthorn 3-4 weeks ago )

 

[BoxMatrix]

We're not too bad. 35k v Giants, 39k v Freo, 45k v Eagles

Didn't we get 45k against the Giants? And even a couple of years ago we got 60k against the Eagles.

 

[Tiger71]

So many opposition fans take this thread way to seriously. Hawkk no offense dude but go outside and enjoy the sunshine, pick up a chick and have a shag.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Hawks vs Suns: 100(11,616/515,000) = 2.25% of the state population attending the game.
Tigers vs Suns: 100(38,500/5,791,000) = 0.66% of the state population attending the game.

You used a terrible example given you have plenty of other ammunition you could have used.

Well done.

And you used a terrible comeback. Tasmania gets how many games a year compared to Victoria? Just showing the percentage of the population makes no sense

 

[TiggerMan22]

You guys are right. Hawthorn supporters do not turn up when playing minnows.

However, hawthorn will become the greatest supported club in terms of membership. This is an inevitability. Too many successful stretches of time. Hawks have been pretty good since 2007 really.

KOLOKOTRONIS

That's a pretty poor argument. Even with all your successful stretches you are just in front or Richmond who has done nothing for decades.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Agreed.

But in the context of the poster I was responding too (who lets for the sake of comparison term the 'inaccurate one') claiming that Hawthorn does not play non Victorian clubs in Melbourne is well a falsehood. The reality is that since 2007 Hawthorn has played 23 home games in Melbourne against non Victorian opposition and has drawn more than 38,000 on average to those games.

Drawing 40,000 plus to these type of fixtures isn't easily attendable. Of the 10 Victorian clubs...

Collingwood 36 (14 50k plus)
Essendon 24 (5 50k plus)
Hawthorn 10 (5 50k plus)
Richmond 7 (0 50k plus)
Carlton 5 (0 50k plus)
Melbourne 3 (1 50k plus)
St Kilda 2 (1 50k plus)
N Melbourne 1 (0 50k plus)
Geelong 0
W Bulldogs 0

Now that Adelaide, Port Adelaide (and in time Fremantle and West Coast) now regularly draw 40,000 plus to home fixtures it really makes a mockery of Collingwood, Essendon or Richmond considering themselves 'the biggest club in Australia'

In terms of Victoria there is a big 2 (Collingwood / Essendon) a gap to Richmond, Hawthorn / Carlton and a sizeable gap to Melbourne / St Kilda

None of Richmond's crowd figures since the 1980s can sensibly be analysed without reference to the remarkably long and deep run of poor form since 1982....a run which is unprecedented among surviving clubs.

What happens when a club struggles onfield?

What happens is no Victorian club regularly draws 40K V Interstate opposition except when in decent form.

Collingwood in their 7 year absence from finals 1995 thru 2001 rarely drew 40K V interstates.

Essendon have seen their run of such attendances completely dry up in recent years. 2002 the last time they drew 40K V Adelaide, 2003 V Freo, 2008 V Port.

Everyone struggles when not going well.

As always context is everything. This is what makes your list, while true, utterly misleading as a guide to any clubs ability to draw such numbers.

 

[simba_]

i would be ashamed to know anyone who subscribes to a newspaper online to read their articles

 

[Bazzar]

However, hawthorn will become the greatest supported club in terms of membership. This is an inevitability. Too many successful stretches of time.

No they wont. The Hawks are the most successful team of the modern era and only just behind the Pies who have only one 2 flags since 1958 and only slightly above Richmond who hasn't won a flag since 1980. A Tiger or Pie flag would have them jump away from the hawks by a conciderable margin a thhird Hawk flag in a row won't see any sizable increase.

 

[walhawk]

I guess that shows how Hawthorn as an organization look after their members! maybe a name change is in order? the hawthorn/northern Tasmanian hawks?? maybe one of your corporate affiliates or interstate governments could fund a bridge across bass strait for you instead of buying out membership packages!

the question I ask of you is would Hawthorn or any other AFL side have the same support as Richmond has if they didn't have the on field success much the same as Richmond has over the last 33 years?

Would any club be as popular as Richmond now without so much success from 1967 - 1980?
It works both ways.