Discussion Junction Oval / Moorabbin redevelopments

[Moral Decay]

Where you trained had a bit more historical romance to it when it was actualy your home ground as well and your supporters went there to watch the players fight for a win on their home turf.
this just isnt the same anymore for the Melbourne clubs. Young supporters will have a closer connection to Etihad and the MCG than Arden St, Whitten oval etc etc.
Its just us older tragics that have a longing to return to our old stomping grounds.

Call me a tragic too.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Footy dept at JC & rest of admin at Moorabbin in a redeveloped facility

 

[VDS66]

How then exactly is it rubbish? Mount an argument to convince me and others.. not counter your own statements.

Junction Oval not the bayside.. ok.. but its ok because we can still own the bayside and run clinics.
No benefits to supporters by moving.. ok.. but hardly anyone goes to training anyway.
Exposure is rubbish... why?
Spiritual home and nostalgic view = tradition = south east... ?? Am I missing something or are you only selective?

ha

read my posts...

The number 1 priority is to give our boys world class facilites for training and recovery.

You can do that at Moorabbin. which is more our spiritual home.

I did say that we can still run clinics anyway all over the place.

I have an extensive marketing background so please tell me how exactly the move will increase our supporter base and membership?

And how often do people get down to training? Seriously?

Like I said, it's about the players welfare as far as I am concerned. If it helps our financial situation then great.

But as Big Mart correctly stated... the way to grow your supporter base is to build relationships in the community. Have a presence.

People don't just drive past on the way home and say "oh wow the Saints are training at the JO... I'm going to buy a membership".

The demographics at St Kilda are no longer a typical blue collar suburb. The % of rentals far outweighs owner occupiers. In short it is a transient population.

The way to success apart from on field success is to find your market and engage them. You cannot just spend 5 years telling the Peninsula how much you love them, and then turn around and say, sorry we are laving you for greener pastures.

Redevelop Moorabbin and its a different story because we are established there already.

How many Hawks members actually come from Hawthorn these days? And how many come from the burbs around Waverly?

This move is all about the AFL getting access to the MCG early March. It is not the magic bullet that some are stating on here.

sorry but I prefer to look at facts and business metrics... not fantasy and hypotheticals.

 

[VDS66]

great point. if i flew over for a game i'd love to be able to go to open training then hit up the cafes with the family either before or after. take in the whole area.

You can do that now..

Catch the Frankston train at Flinders Street to Seaford, enjoy a leisurely 1 hour stroll to the ground then walk another 30 mins to Con's Take Away in Seaford for a nice coffee.

You can take in all the historic graffiti and if you're lucky you might catch a glimpse of the local Automobilius Theifus in action (although they are know to be nocturnal).

Don't know what all the fuss is about.

 

[Periphery]

We are going to redevelop Moorabbin regardless of what happens with JO, but as far as I know it will only be used for the Saints VFL team along with some other community sports stuff.

There is nothing stopping us from staying engaged with the Peninsula community if we move to JO. It isn't like we have to stop doing that Frankston festival or school visits because of it.

 

[Darkhour]

ha

read my posts...

The number 1 priority is to give our boys world class facilites for training and recovery.

You can do that at Moorabbin. which is more our spiritual home.

I did say that we can still run clinics anyway all over the place.

I have an extensive marketing background so please tell me how exactly the move will increase our supporter base and membership?

And how often do people get down to training? Seriously?

Like I said, it's about the players welfare as far as I am concerned. If it helps our financial situation then great.

But as Big Mart correctly stated... the way to grow your supporter base is to build relationships in the community. Have a presence.

People don't just drive past on the way home and say "oh wow the Saints are training at the JO... I'm going to buy a membership".

The demographics at St Kilda are no longer a typical blue collar suburb. The % of rentals far outweighs owner occupiers. In short it is a transient population.

The way to success apart from on field success is to find your market and engage them. You cannot just spend 5 years telling the Peninsula how much you love them, and then turn around and say, sorry we are laving you for greener pastures.

Redevelop Moorabbin and its a different story because we are established there already.

How many Hawks members actually come from Hawthorn these days? And how many come from the burbs around Waverly?

This move is all about the AFL getting access to the MCG early March. It is not the magic bullet that some are stating on here.

sorry but I prefer to look at facts and business metrics... not fantasy and hypotheticals.

lol.. really? thats the best reply/argument you could come up with? read my posts again and answer the question. once again, we've essentially owned the south eastern suburbs forever.. big difference its made..

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Im not trying to speak for everyone. As most of you probably dont want to hear me speak at all
But after reading through this post i think the general consensus is.....
We all wouldve loved to have seen Moorabbin developed properly in the first place and have stayed there instead of going to Seaford.
We all agree Seaford is a very good training facility, but for some reason the move just never quite 'clicked' .
Moorabbin is only ever going to be developed into a good enough playing surface for VFL. Not for a world class training venue.
The AFL/Cricket Vic & the Vic government are pretty much going to give us a 'get out of Jail free' card by setting us up back at StKilda in a world class facility.
The average StKilda supporter is just worried that our main supporter corridor must still be looked after.

So lets all hope that in a few yrs.
We have one of the best training venues on the edge of the city
Moorabbin is a place we can all go to watch our reserves play. Have a beer and soak up some history
Our club puts plenty of effort into its supporters based around StKIlda and right down the Southern Coast to Frangtown

Call me overly positive but i see this as a chance for the club to get it right. Not a a chance to stuff it up.
Ill back them no matter what they choose. Not cos i wear rose coloured glasses. But because i believe we have a positive pro active club looking forward.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Absolutely spot on Snake

 

[stfan]

As soon as you build anything....it is out of date. So by the time this is complete, it will be much better than Seaford which will be starting to feel some where and tear. Also as it is ties into the VCA no doubt the type of facilities will be a lot more comprehensive.

With our younger players, and players we are trying to attract, a central city training base has to be more attractive for the bulk of players who want to be at a Melbourne based club.

Marketing wise- it can only be good to have a more obvious St Kilda connection for St Kilda FC.

There are no negatives to our being there. The same cannot be said for Seaford.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

ha

read my posts...

The number 1 priority is to give our boys world class facilites for training and recovery.

You can do that at Moorabbin. which is more our spiritual home.

I did say that we can still run clinics anyway all over the place.

I have an extensive marketing background so please tell me how exactly the move will increase our supporter base and membership?

And how often do people get down to training? Seriously?

Like I said, it's about the players welfare as far as I am concerned. If it helps our financial situation then great.

But as Big Mart correctly stated... the way to grow your supporter base is to build relationships in the community. Have a presence.

People don't just drive past on the way home and say "oh wow the Saints are training at the JO... I'm going to buy a membership".

The demographics at St Kilda are no longer a typical blue collar suburb. The % of rentals far outweighs owner occupiers. In short it is a transient population.

The way to success apart from on field success is to find your market and engage them. You cannot just spend 5 years telling the Peninsula how much you love them, and then turn around and say, sorry we are laving you for greener pastures.

Redevelop Moorabbin and its a different story because we are established there already.

How many Hawks members actually come from Hawthorn these days? And how many come from the burbs around Waverly?

This move is all about the AFL getting access to the MCG early March. It is not the magic bullet that some are stating on here.

sorry but I prefer to look at facts and business metrics... not fantasy and hypotheticals.

Moorabbin is simply the Seaford of 1965. Spiritual home? How many players chose to live in Moorabbin.

This is Moorabbin.
Its a pain because you need to stop at the traffic lights.

 

[ike2112]

So our AFL team will go from training in state-of-the-art custom built facilities, to training on the 3rd oval sharing changing rooms with a couple other clubs.

Linenhouse downsides are that the admin space was never big enough, there's not a lot around it (although the point of modern all-encompassing facilities is to keep the players together not wandering out and about the locality) and there were a couple of ideal things missing (not a large pool from I recall). But it is the Saints ground - they can do what they want there, they have first dibs on everything, they could even propose extension work and broker a deal should an opportunity arise.
At Junction it seems a lot like the deal my amateur team gets here in Scotland - we have to beg rugby clubs to let us use the facilities, so we end up using the 2nd lot of changing rooms (if we're lucky, sometimes we change in the gym), training on the 3rd team field, we have to cross a road to get there. This facility will be cricket-specific, their players will be there almost year-round using facilities for training, rehab, offseason, preseason and they'll always have priority over the Saints. Everyone loves it because of the name "Junction Oval" - but thats a false promise, they will never actually train at Junction, they'll be over the road from it.

Just seems a big step back in terms of facilities for the club, and thats a very bad thing as facilities is a consideration for players wanting to join a club.

 

[Darkhour]

So our AFL team will go from training in state-of-the-art custom built facilities, to training on the 3rd oval sharing changing rooms with a couple other clubs.

Linenhouse downsides are that the admin space was never big enough, there's not a lot around it (although the point of modern all-encompassing facilities is to keep the players together not wandering out and about the locality) and there were a couple of ideal things missing (not a large pool from I recall). But it is the Saints ground - they can do what they want there, they have first dibs on everything, they could even propose extension work and broker a deal should an opportunity arise.
At Junction it seems a lot like the deal my amateur team gets here in Scotland - we have to beg rugby clubs to let us use the facilities, so we end up using the 2nd lot of changing rooms (if we're lucky, sometimes we change in the gym), training on the 3rd team field, we have to cross a road to get there. This facility will be cricket-specific, their players will be there almost year-round using facilities for training, rehab, offseason, preseason and they'll always have priority over the Saints. Everyone loves it because of the name "Junction Oval" - but thats a false promise, they will never actually train at Junction, they'll be over the road from it.

Just seems a big step back in terms of facilities for the club, and thats a very bad thing as facilities is a consideration for players wanting to join a club.

You need to keep in mind that this deal was and is instigated by the AFL et al., not St Kilda. St Kilda don't have to do anything, but if they do move base to Junction Oval, then rest assured I'm sure they are not going to do so by disadvantaging the training facilities offered to their players...

 

[Barrels]

Moorabbin is simply the Seaford of 1965. Spiritual home? How many players chose to live in Moorabbin.

This is Moorabbin.
Its a pain because you need to stop at the traffic lights.

Actually, it's Moorabbin from the southeast corner away, Bentleigh from the northeast corner away, Hampton East from the southwest and northwest corner away and Brighton-ish further northwest.

 

[tbarker]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Footy dept at JC & rest of admin at Moorabbin in a redeveloped facility

Yep.

I think i see what you are saying W2L.

I have been able to attract a better quality and spread of employees because i have a CBD location. They come from 4 corners of the suburbs. Granted - my business is also better suited to the CBD - but the point I am making is that the potential pool of Admin, Marketing etc people will be far greater if the office is at JO and/or Moorabbin. I am not dissing anyone from the peninsula - I am simply making a point about the percentages.

 

[Fehring]

Bit of light relief. A Hawthorn supporting mate who hates the Saints and reckons we're a bunch of latte sippers sent me a text this morning saying "the Melbourne design community will be delighted with the move to JO. It's so close to Cafe di Stasio. Divine!"

 

[VDS66]

lol.. really? thats the best reply/argument you could come up with? read my posts again and answer the question. once again, we've essentially owned the south eastern suburbs forever.. big difference its made..

OK, you win. I am not dismissing it nor am I in love with it. I thought that was made pretty clear. But I won't blindly just accept what is dished up by the club.

Tell you what... if you are so certain, come up with some concrete evidence as to why it will be a good move. And I mean concrete. Not nostalgia.

I have openly stated my solutions for building the supporter base. I have also stated facts regarding the St Kilda population and demographics. Gen X and Gen Y are no longer dyed in the wool, tribal fans like people from my era. The only back winners and prefer to associate themselves with success. So I fail to see too many local residents folling us just because we are based in St Kilda. Not a reason for making the switch IMO.

The move may be convenient for admin and players by all means. But As I have stated adnauseum, if it benefits the players and their training facilities, then I am all for it. Can't be clearer than that.

I stand by views about the tourist thing. Think about it... you have a finite number of Saints supporters from interstate. Only a small percentage will ever come to Melb. So why would you base a massive commercial decision like this on appeasing a handful of fans?

I have been based in the CBD and suburbs throughout my business life. Both have pros and cons. Players will like inner city... country players prefer some quiet. Once again, there is no concrete proof that players won't join us because of Seaford. None as far as I know.

As far as your original reply goes, you appear to have taken this personally so whatever I say will neither placate nor convince you. So let's end it here and agree to disagree. We both want what's best for the club.

 

[VDS66]

So our AFL team will go from training in state-of-the-art custom built facilities, to training on the 3rd oval sharing changing rooms with a couple other clubs.

Linenhouse downsides are that the admin space was never big enough, there's not a lot around it (although the point of modern all-encompassing facilities is to keep the players together not wandering out and about the locality) and there were a couple of ideal things missing (not a large pool from I recall). But it is the Saints ground - they can do what they want there, they have first dibs on everything, they could even propose extension work and broker a deal should an opportunity arise.
At Junction it seems a lot like the deal my amateur team gets here in Scotland - we have to beg rugby clubs to let us use the facilities, so we end up using the 2nd lot of changing rooms (if we're lucky, sometimes we change in the gym), training on the 3rd team field, we have to cross a road to get there. This facility will be cricket-specific, their players will be there almost year-round using facilities for training, rehab, offseason, preseason and they'll always have priority over the Saints. Everyone loves it because of the name "Junction Oval" - but thats a false promise, they will never actually train at Junction, they'll be over the road from it.

Just seems a big step back in terms of facilities for the club, and thats a very bad thing as facilities is a consideration for players wanting to join a club.

On the face of it, that's a decent post. The only other question is if the club has quietly approached the AFL wanting the move. Because the AFL or Crick Vic don't need us as part of the deal to be honest.

And players aside, I can think of no worse place second only to the CBD to go to work. At least with the CBD you have public transport.

But the JO is a nightmare from all traffic moving in and out of the CBD. Nightmare to drive to work and then your transport links are limited because you only have trams that go past the ground... pretty much no public transport south of Brighton Rd Elsternwick. Not to mention the shytefest that is GP week and the road closures from Feb onwards.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

On the face of it, that's a decent post. The only other question is if the club has quietly approached the AFL wanting the move. Because the AFL or Crick Vic don't need us as part of the deal to be honest.

And players aside, I can think of no worse place second only to the CBD to go to work. At least with the CBD you have public transport.

But the JO is a nightmare from all traffic moving in and out of the CBD. Nightmare to drive to work and then your transport links are limited because you only have trams that go past the ground... pretty much no public transport south of Brighton Rd Elsternwick. Not to mention the shytefest that is GP week and the road closures from Feb onwards.

During work hours I often need to travel from Moorabbin way to the other side of Westgate and back.
Normally I go Nepean Hwy, Beach Road , Esplanade etc. Its busy but rarely gridlocked. From the esplanade to the top of Fitzroy St. No big deal.

Getting there from the CBD would be bad, but getting anywhere from the CBD is bad. The company can pay for me to use Citylink, but from where I'm starting it takes longer when its busy.

 

[VDS66]

During work hours I often need to travel from Moorabbin way to the other side of Westgate and back.
Normally I go Nepean Hwy, Beach Road , Esplanade etc. Its busy but rarely gridlocked. From the esplanade to the top of Fitzroy St. No big deal.

Getting there from the CBD would be bad, but getting anywhere from the CBD is bad. The company can pay for me to use Citylink, but from where I'm starting it takes longer when its busy.

Yeah I get all of that. But driving through their at either of the peak times ain't pretty.

Let me put my points a bit more clearly...

I prefer to see the nuts and bolts of the deal and what we get before judging.

Now let's see...

Exposure: That corner on Fitzroy and queens is a high exposure site - prime real estate. Will there be any signage for the club or sponsors on the old JO?

If yes, then it's a massive. If no, then it's a massive fail.

Given our training will not be at the JO, will there be significant signage for our sponsors to gain decent exposure?

If yes, then great. If no... etc etc.

Admin: Will we get larger admin?

Facilities: Will we get state of the art facilities and on a grander scale to match clubs like the Hawks, etc? This I believe will be a key element in attracting players to our club apart from money. Note that the Hawks are based in the middle of nowhere and can attract players. so that kills that little theory.

If we get them, then great. If not, then what's the point?

Recovery: YES ii gives players easier access to the top medical facilities. Big thumbs up.

Tourism? Well let's see now... If the admin is based inside the old JO, then hopefully we would have some sort of heritage museum in there. A great move IMO. I would also hope that the old stands are given new names like the Barker-Baldock Stand and the Harvey-Hayes Stand.

Now that would tempt me to jump on a plane for sure.

Local supporters? Still far convinced for reasons stated above. But it may help in a small, tiny way.

That's how I see it my friends. If it ticks the boxes then let's do it.

 

[tbarker]

On the face of it, that's a decent post. The only other question is if the club has quietly approached the AFL wanting the move. Because the AFL or Crick Vic don't need us as part of the deal to be honest.

And players aside, I can think of no worse place second only to the CBD to go to work. At least with the CBD you have public transport.

But the JO is a nightmare from all traffic moving in and out of the CBD. Nightmare to drive to work and then your transport links are limited because you only have trams that go past the ground... pretty much no public transport south of Brighton Rd Elsternwick. Not to mention the shytefest that is GP week and the road closures from Feb onwards.

Yes - very good point about the traffic and access. I think for players it is bit different - they don't travel in peak hour so JO wouldn't be an issue. But for staff - you are correct - it is a fair nightmare to get to save for the 96 tram which is the closest and most reliable but that is from Southern Cross Station. It is not that bad by car though. I actually wasn't thinking about convenience for supporters so whether or not it suits them - I don't care so much.

 

[Darkhour]

OK, you win. I am not dismissing it nor am I in love with it. I thought that was made pretty clear. But I won't blindly just accept what is dished up by the club.

Tell you what... if you are so certain, come up with some concrete evidence as to why it will be a good move. And I mean concrete. Not nostalgia.

I have openly stated my solutions for building the supporter base. I have also stated facts regarding the St Kilda population and demographics. Gen X and Gen Y are no longer dyed in the wool, tribal fans like people from my era. The only back winners and prefer to associate themselves with success. So I fail to see too many local residents folling us just because we are based in St Kilda. Not a reason for making the switch IMO.

The move may be convenient for admin and players by all means. But As I have stated adnauseum, if it benefits the players and their training facilities, then I am all for it. Can't be clearer than that.

I stand by views about the tourist thing. Think about it... you have a finite number of Saints supporters from interstate. Only a small percentage will ever come to Melb. So why would you base a massive commercial decision like this on appeasing a handful of fans?

I have been based in the CBD and suburbs throughout my business life. Both have pros and cons. Players will like inner city... country players prefer some quiet. Once again, there is no concrete proof that players won't join us because of Seaford. None as far as I know.

As far as your original reply goes, you appear to have taken this personally so whatever I say will neither placate nor convince you. So let's end it here and agree to disagree. We both want what's best for the club.

Good to hear that your finally on board. The funny thing is everything you use as an argument as to why you are unhappy, you essentially rebut in the same reply (apart from your obvious dissatisfaction with previous club decisions which I get). I haven't taken anything personally, I just get amused when people post and claim some semi-authoritative argument without justifying their statements except for stating something is rubbish.

 

[Fred]

On the face of it, that's a decent post. The only other question is if the club has quietly approached the AFL wanting the move. Because the AFL or Crick Vic don't need us as part of the deal to be honest.

And players aside, I can think of no worse place second only to the CBD to go to work. At least with the CBD you have public transport.

But the JO is a nightmare from all traffic moving in and out of the CBD. Nightmare to drive to work and then your transport links are limited because you only have trams that go past the ground... pretty much no public transport south of Brighton Rd Elsternwick. Not to mention the shytefest that is GP week and the road closures from Feb onwards.

Does the Hawthorn Rd tram still go past the Junction Oval? That's the one we used to catch in the 60's from East Brighton. Walk 200m to the tram stop and straight to the JO.

 

[VDS66]

Good to hear that your finally on board. The funny thing is everything you use as an argument as to why you are unhappy, you essentially rebut in the same reply (apart from your obvious dissatisfaction with previous club decisions which I get). I haven't taken anything personally, I just get amused when people post and claim some semi-authoritative argument without justifying their statements except for stating something is rubbish.

I am 50/50 on this and not on board - yet. See my above reply to SaintsInSeptember.

 

[Darkhour]

I am 50/50 on this and not on board - yet. See my above reply to SaintsInSeptember.

Yes I read that hence my reply above

 

[Defacto]

geeze cricket victoria is kidding its self.

wants 70m to get this work done. wtf are they planning to build?