Schoenmakers gets to have the final say

[PenAndPaper]

But there it is again u just don't get it! It's a team sport and sometimes teams carry players that aren't very good schoenmakers is one of those players.

To even quote a tv show he is your weakest link and if your to blind to see the crows were exposing him at every chance they got well good luck this weekend.

Players are also let down by their teammates, simple things such as slowing the entries the opposition had were not done. It is a team game and the delivery the forwards got on Saturday was the fault of our midfielders and half backs not putting on nearly enough pressure.

 

[TheFourPillars]

But there it is again u just don't get it! It's a team sport and sometimes teams carry players that aren't very good schoenmakers is one of those players.

To even quote a tv show he is your weakest link and if your to blind to see the crows were exposing him at every chance they got well good luck this weekend.

Watch for him mate he is going to be around for the next 10 years contrary to what the arm chair critic thinks he is rated very highly internally and by his mates and in the end thats all that counts

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I watched that game and Tippett was outmarking Shoenmakers with ease. Why was he moved off Tippett?

You clearly didn't watch very hard. He took 6 marks inside 50 for the entire game, 3 of them on Schoey.

He wasn't moved off Tippett, he was simply covering Walker or someone else at that specific time when Tippett was "clunking" that massive total of 3 marks "everywhere".

 

[cash]

Wrong.
Did you get that from the stats? Or did you just make that up?

You certainly didn't get it from watching the game.

They showed Tippets highlights from that game last week on Foxtel's "insider". And for the record, He took 6 marks inside 50 for the entire game(8 total), and 3 of them weren't even when Schoenmakers was on him.

lol.
This guy.

 

[The Fact]

You clearly didn't watch very hard. He took 6 marks inside 50 for the entire game, 3 of them on Schoey.

He wasn't moved off Tippett, he was simply covering Walker or someone else at that specific time when Tippett was "clunking" that massive total of 3 marks "everywhere".

That's alot, you do know that right

 

[Last Line Hero]

That's alot, you do know that right

Few frustrated lawyer types amongst these Hawks fans I think. Will argue whatever rediculous angle they can to make shit look like shoe polish.

 

[bombermick]

They were talking about the Round 3 clash, Last Line Hero. But you're right, they'll argue anything to protect their "undersized, but he'll be awesome one day" defender.

 

[Last Line Hero]

Oh My bad. Shoey's beatings just tend to all roll into one thesedays, hard to tell one apart from the other. Worth posting anyway.

 

[Pessimistic]

Few frustrated lawyer types amongst these Hawks fans I think. Will argue whatever rediculous angle they can to make shit look like shoe polish.

More annoyed theres no "but Reid is even worse" type comments which is true

 

[Last Line Hero]

More annoyed theres no "but Reid is even worse" type comments which is true

Reid? As in Sam Reid? No he's not. What a rediculous comment.

Ried established himself as one of, if not, the best young key forward in the game last season. Had an unbeliveable year as a 2nd year power forward, given how notoriously difficult it is for young key forwards to develop quickly.

Had a down year this year, with teams investing more time in how to stop him, yet still kicked 30 goals. Shoenmakers has never come even vaguely close to displaying the same level of talent that Reid has at his best and that is without stating that Reid is over a year younger.

If people were asked to build a team of 22y.o and under's Reid would be one of the first picked as a key forward, Schoenmakers even as a defender still wouldn't.

 

[Pessimistic]

Reid? As in Sam Reid? No he's not. What a rediculous comment.

Ried established himself as one of, if not, the best young key forward in the game last season. Had an unbeliveable year as a 2nd year power forward, given how notoriously difficult it is for young key forwards to develop quickly.

Had a down year this year, with teams investing more time in how to stop him, yet still kicked 30 goals. Shoenmakers has never come even vaguely close to displaying the same level of talent that Reid has at his best.

Except when he plays him ? watch before vomiting next time

 

[Pessimistic]

Reid? As in Sam Reid? No he's not. What a rediculous comment.

Ried established himself as one of, if not, the best young key forward in the game last season. Had an unbeliveable year as a 2nd year power forward, given how notoriously difficult it is for young key forwards to develop quickly.

Had a down year this year, with teams investing more time in how to stop him, yet still kicked 30 goals. Shoenmakers has never come even vaguely close to displaying the same level of talent that Reid has at his best.

Except when he plays him ? watch before vomiting next time

 

[Last Line Hero]

Except when he plays him ? watch before vomiting next time

What's your point? Shoenmakers should fare well against him. He's a year older and playing in a better side.

Doesn't change the fact that Reid is rediculously more talented than Shoenamakers and has been able to demonstrate that talent at the top level (unlike Shoenmakers), playing a significantly tougher role for someone of his age.

Noone is ever going to comment that Reid is worse, because noone in their right mind is ever going to think that at this point in time, given what Reid has shown.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Reid? As in Sam Reid? No he's not. What a rediculous comment.

Ried established himself as one of, if not, the best young key forward in the game last season. Had an unbeliveable year as a 2nd year power forward, given how notoriously difficult it is for young key forwards to develop quickly.

Had a down year this year, with teams investing more time in how to stop him, yet still kicked 30 goals. Shoenmakers has never come even vaguely close to displaying the same level of talent that Reid has at his best and that is without stating that Reid is over a year younger.

If people were asked to build a team of 22y.o and under's Reid would be one of the first picked as a key forward, Schoenmakers even as a defender still wouldn't.

Oh dear, Schoenmakers has smashed Reid every time we have played the Swans. Yes, Schoenmakers has had that extra year of development but it seems that any extra year of development only relates to when Schoenmakers has had it on his opponent and not when his opponent has had it on him...very selective mate.

You also have very little knowledge of player development if you think that KPF's develop later than KPD's. The development between the two is very similar.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Reid? As in Sam Reid? No he's not. What a rediculous comment.

Ried established himself as one of, if not, the best young key forward in the game last season. Had an unbeliveable year as a 2nd year power forward, given how notoriously difficult it is for young key forwards to develop quickly.

Had a down year this year, with teams investing more time in how to stop him, yet still kicked 30 goals. Shoenmakers has never come even vaguely close to displaying the same level of talent that Reid has at his best and that is without stating that Reid is over a year younger.

If people were asked to build a team of 22y.o and under's Reid would be one of the first picked as a key forward, Schoenmakers even as a defender still wouldn't.

The bold comment really highlights the difference in how people treat Schoenmakers versus other KPPs his age.

Gloss over the fact that Reid has had a down year because he kicked 30 goals.
He had four disposals and didn't kick a goal in his last final. Three marks.
He had 11 disposals and one goal in the final before that. Two marks for the match

A key position forward who only kicks one goal across 2 finals is fine - yet a key position backman who gets soundly beaten in two finals is ripe for everyone to line up and kick the crap out of.

People talk up Reid as a talent because he shows it here or there. Schoenmakers also shows some damn fine talent here or there. If you watch him against Cloke in round 17 his body work against the man mountain was brilliant - as was his spoiling. It's the equivalent of Reid kicking 6 goals against an out of form Darren Glass - yet everyone rushes in (and it's actually getting sick how much people want to do this with Schoenmakers) to slam the hawk centre half back for the bad games.

I don't want to bag out Reid - he is a good player and will become great. What I don't get is why we all say "oh he'll be a champ one day, he's just having a bad year", whereas with Schoenmakers we all get together and celebrate how awful he is. The development curves of the two players are very similar.

 

[Necromancer Beth]

What's your point? Shoenmakers should fare well against him. He's a year older and playing in a better side.

Doesn't change the fact that Reid is rediculously more talented than Shoenamakers and has been able to demonstrate that talent at the top level (unlike Shoenmakers), playing a significantly tougher role for someone of his age.

Noone is ever going to comment that Reid is worse, because noone in their right mind is ever going to think that at this point in time, given what Reid has shown.

Do you post about Hawthorn more than your own side?

 

[forwardflanker]

So how many points do you guys think Schoenmakers can lose the game by tommorow?

 

[Tulip]

So defensive, you all.

Lets see how he performs tomorrow: Is its anything like his last two performances - expect Reid to kick 5.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

So how many points do you guys think Schoenmakers can lose the game by tommorow?

This is exactly what I mean - bagging Schoenmakers is a sport now. All these heroes get their kicks put of it while other Kpps of a similar age and prrformance are left alone.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

So defensive, you all.

Lets see how he performs tomorrow: Is its anything like his last two performances - expect Reid to kick 5.

And if Reid carries on with his average performance over the last 2 matches he will finish with half a goal.

It could well be a completely irrelevant contest in the outcome of the match.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

This is exactly what I mean - bagging Schoenmakers is a sport now. All these heroes get their kicks put of it while other Kpps of a similar age and prrformance are left alone.

It should be expected that if someone in such a highly rated team, which is now playing in a grand final is constantly pumping out ordinary performances, he will cop a lot of attention.

Sure, he's young and all those excuses but in the grand final, you don't want to lose by a goal and look at the stat sheets to find Schoenmaker's opponent kicked 6 goals.

 

[forwardflanker]

This is exactly what I mean - bagging Schoenmakers is a sport now. All these heroes get their kicks put of it while other Kpps of a similar age and prrformance are left alone.

I don't really see your point. Schoenmakers has an exceptional talent for incompetence, it's definitely not sport. How many other young talls have you seen who time and time again have proven totally inept in clutch moments. Perhaps Jason Cloke, but I don't think he was even as bad as Schoenmakers under the pump. Hawks fans just make it even worse by saying he's had a really good season. At least Jason Cloke could argue he was incompetant all the time, not just in clutch moments. There's something going on in Schoey's head and he needs a sports psychologist asap.

 

[Last Line Hero]

Oh dear, Schoenmakers has smashed Reid every time we have played the Swans. Yes, Schoenmakers has had that extra year of development but it seems that any extra year of development only relates to when Schoenmakers has had it on his opponent and not when his opponent has had it on him...very selective mate.

You also have very little knowledge of player development if you think that KPF's develop later than KPD's. The development between the two is very similar.

No, not really. Noone, including me, has ever said or expected that Shoenmakers should be some dominating defender given he is playing in a great side. In saying that, he should be better than what he is and developing significantly faster given how strong Hawthorn are and the support he has. The fact he isn't is alarming, and inidicative of an underlying incompetence that is getting more and more difficult to deny. Ofcourse 22 year old defenders are going to have some tough games, given their age. Hell, defenders are always going to have tough days until the day they retire. The only comments I have ever made regarding Shoenmakers concern how horribly he gets beaten because he clearly possesses no natural ability as a key defender and simply shouldn't be playing there. He's not talented in that role, he isn't getting better, and chances are he never will, it has nothing to do with his age or experience, it's just an inborn capability that he lacks. Some have it, most don't. All Clarkson is doing is hurting his development as a footballer making him play a role he isn't and more than likely will never be able to. He continues to demonstrate no development in his fundamental defensive ability whatsoever, because he doesn't have the physical or mental tools to succeed as a key backmen.

 

[Pessimistic]

Oh dear, Schoenmakers has smashed Reid every time we have played the Swans. Yes, Schoenmakers has had that extra year of development but it seems that any extra year of development only relates to when Schoenmakers has had it on his opponent and not when his opponent has had it on him...very selective mate.

You also have very little knowledge of player development if you think that KPF's develop later than KPD's. The development between the two is very similar.

I hate to get into the denigration of Reid either but you guys cant have it both ways - the development thing.

The point is everyone is saying shoe's going to be exposed tomorrow

By who ? Just answer that and I'll shut up

 

[Leather Poisoning]

It should be expected that if someone in such a highly rated team, which is now playing in a grand final is constantly pumping out ordinary performances, he will cop a lot of attention.

Sure, he's you and all those excuses but in the grand final, you don't want to lose by a goal and look at the stat sheets to find Schoenmaker's opponent kicked 6 goals.

I'm not going to pretend he has played well (although I thought his first half against Cloke was great in the QF) but I just can't believe how much stick this guy is copping.

When Buddy kicks on someone you never ear who the defender was. But if Cloke or Hawkins kicks six against us you can guarantee bigfooty will be as, If not more, concerned with the defender than the forward.

High profile team is just a rubbish excuse for paying out on a 21 year old. Hawkins copped it a lot before he came of age in a similar fashion. The masses just pick targets and go to town on it. Don't mind it on bay 13 - that's for banter and shot flinging - but for actual football discussion on the main board the masses have lost the plot.