No Oppo Supporters The ASADA Thread... from a Tiger perspective

[RockJobster0312]

What do you mean by this, a 17 team comp or essendope down the bottom of the ladder, firstly they wont be kicked out of the comp and secondly the afl will hardly go broke if Essendon are s**t or their supporters don't turn up, getting pretty sick of reading that the afl can't have an uncompetitive Essendon, the afl got along just fine with the tigers being s**t, I'm sure they'll get along just as well with Essendon crap for a while.

There is a difference between no Essendon and an uncompetitive Essendon. It's not so much that they cannot have Essendon being uncompetitive, but they cannot have no Essendon for a year due to the financial ramifications across the league. The more teams you have that will draw large crowds regardless of position or opposition will make money for not just the AFL, but the lesser sides. An example is there is more money for the Bulldogs when they play Essendon versus when they play St. Kilda. Keep in mind that they also have to for the short term prop up GWS and Gold Coast. Not to mention the Saints, Bulldogs, Melbourne and possibly the Roos all require some large financial aid from the AFL.

If you were to give them a 12 month plus ban for the majority of the list (which is, at the least fair in my opinion) an force the Bombers to not field a team for 12 months, that's 12 months away from the AFL getting a significant portion of the revenue that it uses to support other clubs financially.

Which is why I think it will be (circa) ten games, with provisions for a larger rookie list made up of their current VFL crop to ensure that they have the ability to field a team. A massive hit for the Bombers' season, but not massively debilitating for the AFL.

Anyway, that's just my take.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Doesn't matter, Armstrong never tested positive.

and they initially offered Armstrong only a short ban and losing just 2 of his TdF

 

[DrMike]

Only reason the NRL verdicts were backdated was because of the limited ASADA resources that were being forced to deal with Essendon. NRL provided the information and admitted guilt as soon as the opportunity was made available to them, and therefore couldn't have been suspended earlier due to the unavailability of ASADA, so they backdated the suspensions.

Essendon have done nothing but delay, and resources were completely available to them at all times, so the suspension will not be backdated.

 

[strav]

Doubt that Essendon would accept any bans without (a form of) back dating them - especially on the back of the Cronulla Sharks players getting similar treatment.

For what its worth I agree with you - they should be held accountable for the exact duration of the ban. But the reality is, the AFL need to get this issue out of the mainstream (a presentation the Good ole Gil did illustrated that 50% of the ill general feeling of fans in relation to the AFL was due to the Essendon supplements scandal) and look to move on.

Furthermore, the AFL do not want a season without Essendon in the AFL. The revenue the Bombers generate due to average attendance, merchandise and membership sales etc. is fairly significant - greater than that of North Melbourne, Melbourne, St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs.

I think we should all prepare ourselves for deals which severely favour Essendon (in comparison to the charges) to just put this issue behind them. I am personally expecting it to be around a maximum of 10 games.

In saying all that though, the current form of Essendon may make that more difficult.

Essendon in reality will not be asked whether they will agree to a particular sentence, it will be imposed like all other determinations.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Only reason the NRL verdicts were backdated was because of the limited ASADA resources that were being forced to deal with Essendon. NRL provided the information and admitted guilt as soon as the opportunity was made available to them, and therefore couldn't have been suspended earlier due to the unavailability of ASADA, so they backdated the suspensions.

Essendon have done nothing but delay, and resources were completely available to them at all times, so the suspension will not be backdated.

You have a couple of things here wrong

Firstly asada has come out and categorically said that the Cronulla case was not suspended at any time in order to proceed with the Essendon one

Secondly, the Cronulla players initially refused to respond to questions in the early interviews, so these were stopped while asada worked about the necessary arrangements to get the cooperation that was needed

 

[DrMike]

You have a couple of things here wrong

Firstly asada has come out and categorically said that the Cronulla case was not suspended at any time in order to proceed with the Essendon one

Secondly, the Cronulla players initially refused to respond to questions in the early interviews, so these were stopped while asada worked about the necessary arrangements to get the cooperation that was needed

I might have the Essendon part wrong, I don't have a source for it and can't be bothered looking, more making an assumption based on this:

The suspensions relate to ‘show cause’ notices issued by ASADA on 20 August 2014 for the use of prohibited substances, CJC-1295 and GHRP-6, between March and April 2011.
The suspension imposed on the players was backdated by the NRL to 23 November 2013 to take into account delays in the progress of the matter which were not attributable to the players.

http://www.asada.gov.au/media/organised_crime_and_drugs_in_sport.html#asada_statements

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I might have the Essendon part wrong, I don't have a source for it and can't be bothered looking, more making an assumption based on this:

http://www.asada.gov.au/media/organised_crime_and_drugs_in_sport.html#asada_statements

Yes, delays it took to investigate, but not specifically related to efc. Remember the delays that have occurred with the efc case are all post the investigation being concluded, and that was only a few months ago - same time frame as the Cronulla case

And unlike Cronulla, no efc players refused to answer questions in their interviews.

 

[Tigerforlife78]

I was just on the phone to a mate from my school days who is an Essendon supporter, I was suprised to hear from him that he and most of his Essendon mates are just plain ashamed of the club. He told me his son and other kids son wont wear there Essondon jumpers anymore and has said his son now supports the Hawks while other kids are jumping ship to other clubs! It made me think whether or not Essendon has thought about the long term damage this will do to there current 6-12 year old supporter base which will be buying memberships in 6-12 years time. Even after its all said and done i dont think they fully realise the damage they have done to the club yet by behaving this way through the whole process.

 

[DrMike]

Yes, delays it took to investigate, but not specifically related to efc. Remember the delays that have occurred with the efc case are all post the investigation being concluded, and that was only a few months ago - same time frame as the Cronulla case

And unlike Cronulla, no efc players refused to answer questions in their interviews.

No, they just took ASADA to court over it instead.

I haven't seen anything that states the NRL investigations weren't delayed due to Essendon, but I believe I have seen where it was, do you have a source?

 

[tigertaskforce]

does anyone know when ryders baby is due ? lord forbid anything wrong with the innocent child BUT if there's anything at all wrong with the baby lord help essendope

 

[Ned_Flanders]

No, they just took ASADA to court over it instead.

I haven't seen anything that states the NRL investigations weren't delayed due to Essendon, but I believe I have seen where it was, do you have a source?

again, after it was finished, not during it. As such, your theory doesn't work. For ASADA to be diverting resources to EFC's investigation due to delaying tactics by EFC, the delaying tactics need to occur during the actual investigation, not after it.

I don't have the link (google spews up way too many articles), but ASADA actually stated it publicly a few days after the deal was announced with Cronulla to respond to claims it was due to a focus on EFC. It was recently reposted on the HTB, but I cant remember the thread (if i find it i'll repost here)

 

[Grockadoc]

If they do not face any form of non-compete sanction, the AFL is going to struggle to promote the game, as well as keep most fans interested. Not to mention opposition fans boycott Essendon games and not turn up, impacting on revenue for both Essendon and the AFL.

If a sanction isn't handed down that bans players from competing, a penalty such as no first our second rounders in the next couple of drafts, no points awarded for Essendon wins for two years and every Essendon home game the gate receipts are split with the club they are facing for one season.

Implement punishments to their draft picks, points and revenue.

 

[DrMike]

again, after it was finished, not during it. As such, your theory doesn't work. For ASADA to be diverting resources to EFC's investigation due to delaying tactics by EFC, the delaying tactics need to occur during the actual investigation, not after it.

I don't have the link (google spews up way too many articles), but ASADA actually stated it publicly a few days after the deal was announced with Cronulla to respond to claims it was due to a focus on EFC. It was recently reposted on the HTB, but I cant remember the thread (if i find it i'll repost here)

You might want to read what I said again.

I never said the players delayed the ASADA investigation. I said ASADA resources were limited, which means they were unable to allocate resources to both Essendon and Cronulla in order to expedite the Cronulla investigation, hence the backdated suspensions. The Esssendon scenario is different as the resources have always been available for them and the investigation was only completed when it was able to be, hence their suspension should not be backdated.

I did say Essendon, the club [read: Hird/Little], have tried to drag this out as long as possible for their own benefit. This has happened during and after the investigation. This is my opinion and I stand by it.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

again, after it was finished, not during it. As such, your theory doesn't work. For ASADA to be diverting resources to EFC's investigation due to delaying tactics by EFC, the delaying tactics need to occur during the actual investigation, not after it.

I don't have the link (google spews up way too many articles), but ASADA actually stated it publicly a few days after the deal was announced with Cronulla to respond to claims it was due to a focus on EFC. It was recently reposted on the HTB, but I cant remember the thread (if i find it i'll repost here)

Its not the article I was thinking of (which addressed the issue more specifically), but McD references the delays in this interview:

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/offsiders/content/2014/s4073354.htm


BM: I took this role on 90 days ago and I've got to say it had been running under a public spotlight for many many months. I said I would work at this with urgency but that I wouldn't sacrifice certainty for that urgency. The ASADA team has worked hard and diligently and under constant pressure from the media and others to actually get this resolved but I've got to do it properly. On day 25 I issued the notices to Essendon after due consideration, after strong legal advice which I've had every step of the way, we've continued the work simultaneously in relation to the Cronulla matters. They weren't set aside, we've been working on them both continuously but it took longer, we got to where we were and again after legal advice when I felt I was comfortable and I'd reached a state of mind that I need to, and I don't issue show cause notices on a willy nilly basis, I issue them after due consideration, and on Tuesday I felt I had reached that point.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You might want to read what I said again.

I never said the players delayed the ASADA investigation. I said ASADA resources were limited, which means they were unable to allocate resources to both Essendon and Cronulla in order to expedite the Cronulla investigation, hence the backdated suspensions. The Esssendon scenario is different as the resources have always been available for them and the investigation was only completed when it was able to be, hence their suspension should not be backdated.

I did say Essendon, the club [read: Hird/Little], have tried to drag this out as long as possible for their own benefit. This has happened during and after the investigation. This is my opinion and I stand by it.

Refer to the interview I posted above, the Cronulla investigation wasn't stopped, and resources were not diverted from it to have a 100% funded EFC investigation

You put it on me (and I responded), so now I put it on you. Show an article where ASADA say they diverted resources from the Cronulla investigation to the Essendon one.

 

[SunshineBoy]

and they initially offered Armstrong only a short ban and losing just 2 of his TdF

and he rejected it, sounds familiar here doesn't it.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

and he rejected it, sounds familiar here doesn't it.

Only thing I would say about that is we are yet to hear the players response to the ASADA case - based upon their advice they rejected any offer without seeing the case against them, now that info is being provided we will see what the players response will be. On EFC management and Hird, thats entirely different (but ultimately they would have any involvement in the players decision).

Lance was a fool though, he was even injecting in front of people and discussing what he was on at one point. HTF did he think it would never get out??

 

[Dusty Cotch]

I was just on the phone to a mate from my school days who is an Essendon supporter, I was suprised to hear from him that he and most of his Essendon mates are just plain ashamed of the club. He told me his son and other kids son wont wear there Essondon jumpers anymore and has said his son now supports the Hawks while other kids are jumping ship to other clubs! It made me think whether or not Essendon has thought about the long term damage this will do to there current 6-12 year old supporter base which will be buying memberships in 6-12 years time. Even after its all said and done i dont think they fully realise the damage they have done to the club yet by behaving this way through the whole process.

And just think Hird could have stopped most of the fallout & damage!.. If he did what he said he would do at the first press conference & take full responsibility. The selfish man has done anything but & become a terminal cancer to his once great club!

 

[captain blood 17]

Keep fighting it James. It's only the AFL and a government body, you're bigger than they are.


Sent from my iPad using righteous man power.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Tania would like to say that as well....

 

[CrashComic]

Richard Ings tweeted this earlier.

WADA aren't happy about the Cronulla penalties but won't be appealing.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2014-09/wada-statement-on-nrl-sanctions#.VCqXwL6kLzN

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Richard Ings tweeted this earlier.

WADA aren't happy about the Cronulla penalties but won't be appealing.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2014-09/wada-statement-on-nrl-sanctions#.VCqXwL6kLzN

This stuck out like dogs balls to me and doesn't bode well for the players of Essendon or players that are elsewhere.

D: The 12 month sanctions were deemed to commence on November 2013, such " backdating " being justified by the delays in the process which could not be and were not attributable to any action or lack of action on the part of the players ( or their representatives ). It is this last aspect of the sanctioning that requires close review.

Essendon were representatives of the players and took ASADA to court thus delaying the process, the only delay the players can claim IMO is from the time the investigation was completed to the time of when the SCN were issued, this was only a matter of a few weeks. A dater to keep in mind here will be October 10 when the appeal window shuts and new SCN are issued.

Another thing to note is the Cronulla players were still given 12 month bans, based on this it is safe to assume the Essendon players will also be getting 12 month bans at the least and this will at least take us to October 10 2015, backdate maybe a month and it is still game over for season 2015 for Essendon and any players found to be in breach or accepting a deal. Forget about 6 months, that wont be happening unless the players pretty much throw the club under the bus.

 

[tigertaskforce]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ well they should club threw them under did it not ?

 

[_RT_]

Finally Essendon makes a good decision and decides not to appeal the Fed Court decision. That means that SCN can now be issued and the players will have 2 weeks to argue their case.

 

[_RT_]

Meanwhile James Hird decides that he will appeal the decision. They need to do whatever it takes(pun intended) to get him out of there ASAP.