I enjoyed it far more than this year's farcical, 'Anyone know when incorrect disposal, in the back, chopping arms etc were removed from the rulebook?'So you enjoyed last years over umpiring?
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I enjoyed it far more than this year's farcical, 'Anyone know when incorrect disposal, in the back, chopping arms etc were removed from the rulebook?'So you enjoyed last years over umpiring?
Problem is too many are getting pinged without prior op. So often I mutter, 'Now why would you go and get the ball?' - and quite often it's MY team receiving the free kick. I'm as biased as they come but I hate seeing a bloke penalised when he's had no chance whatsoever to dispose of the ball. And I especially hate that one where a player is so pinned that he can't even wriggle his little finger yet the ump pauses (as though giving him more time in his 'strait jacket' will help) pings him and then tells him he needed to make a genuine attempt - in this situation this could only mean miraculously boring a hole in his torso (and the torsos of the three opponents on top of him) and making the ball go through them.You can't start pinging people who haven't had prior for HTB. That would be an awful rule change.
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Exactly. It reminds me of the old 'dodgy handball free' they sometimes pay. I get a shocker of a handball from my teammate which means I am instantly tackled. I get pinged for HTB or incorrect disposal seemingly because, well, 'that was a terrible decision by your teammate to give you the ball in that situation' - yeah but I still need to have had prior op.A free kick should be about punishing an infringement, not rewarding good play. The "reward the tackler" attitude is why people are always up in arms over HTB decisions. A good tackle is great, but it's only worth a free kick if the guy getting tackled has had opportunity to dispose of the ball and has failed to do so.
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I'm happy for 50+ free kicks a game. If they simply implement the rules the players will adapt and then they won't have to pay 50+ frees a match. No point having a rule book if the rules are ignored by the match officials.
What rule is in the book and is currently not being implemented that you would like to be implemented? "Dropping the ball" isn't a free kick.
The only time you'll have a free kick paid against you for dropping the ball is if you're being tackled and you've dropped the ball after having prior opportunity to dispose of the ball and have failed to attempt to do so.
And rightly so.
Problem is too many are getting pinged without prior op. So often I mutter, 'Now why would you go and get the ball?' - and quite often it's MY team receiving the free kick. I'm as biased as they come but I hate seeing a bloke penalised when he's had no chance whatsoever to dispose of the ball. And I especially hate that one where a player is so pinned that he can't even wriggle his little finger yet the ump pauses (as though giving him more time in his 'strait jacket' will help) pings him and then tells him he needed to make a genuine attempt - in this situation this could only mean miraculously boring a hole in his torso (and the torsos of the three opponents on top of him) and making the ball go through them.
Are you saying that if you're tackled without prior opportunity to dispose of the ball you are simply allowed to drop it?
Yes, unless the umpire determines that in dropping the ball you could have made an attempt to dispose of the ball correctly (which, let's face it, is almost every time. You can always drop the ball and make an attempt to kick it. If you drop it on the ground and fall on it under a pack, you have to make an attempt to knock it out).
All i'm saying is that whether you drop the ball or not is not a factor in whether a free kick is paid. It's entirely down to whether you had prior opportunity and whether you disposed of the ball legally or, if you didn't have prior, made a genuine attempt to do so.
Well, you simply can't let the ball go whilst being tackled, prior opportunity or not.
That happens all the time.
The problem here IMO is PR. The AFL almost need to get Channel 7 to run a segment at halftime on Friday night footy explaining the rule, because as is plain to see in this thread, even die hard footy followers don't understand the rule at all at the moment. Every time there is a tackle and the ball spills out, half of my bay will scream out "HE DROPPED IT" as if that matters, because they aren't aware that they game has changed since 1995.
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Don't you think that if die hard footy followers don't understand the rule that is in itself an indication that thee rule needs to be altered? It seems most people in this thread, and the majority of fans I encounter, want the rules to:
1: Protect the ball player.
2: Penalise obvious infringements.
3: Make sense - as in they can understand why one infringement was paid and another was not.
It shouldn't matter if a player makes an attempt if he wrapped up immediately.
It should matter that a player can't just let go of the ball.
It should matter that no matter how much prior opportunity a player has that the tackle still needs to be legal and not infringe high, low or in the back.
You've quoted the wrong law. Also, it's not illegal to deliberately drop the ball on the ground, when not being tackled...From the current AFL lawbook, the Incorrect Disposal law:
15.3 FREE KICKS RELATING TO DISPOSAL OF THE FOOTBALL
15.3.1 Correct Disposal
A Player Correctly Disposes of the football if the Player Kicks
or Handballs the football.
15.3.2 Incorrect Disposal and Payment of Free Kick
When the football is in play, a Free Kick shall be awarded
against a Player who hands the football to another Player
or throws the football.
This is just badly written - what is dropping the ball? It is neither a correct or an incorrect disposal. IARC the rule used to list explicitly the various types of incorrect disposals (throwing, handing to a teammate, scooping, rolling, etc).
I can remember only one free kick paid against a player dropping the ball deliberately when not in a tackle - against Darren Milburn against Richmond in the mid-2000s. Milburn, about to fall out of bounds, dropped the ball inside the boundary line, came back inside the boundary and picked up the ball.
You've quoted the wrong law. Also, it's not illegal to deliberately drop the ball on the ground, when not being tackled...
Yes, "by definition", the ball being dropped deliberately or forced out in the tackle is not classified as a "correct disposal" or an "incorrect disposal", because it is covered by the laws elsewhere. The free kicks under the HTB laws are for HTB, not for incorrect disposal under 15.3.2. The HTB laws don't refer to the term "incorrect disposal".
15.3.1 is only a definition of what a "correct disposal" is, for the purposes of the HTB law. This isn't the whole HTB law. HTB includes 15.3.1, but is mainly covered by 15.2.3, 15.2.4, 15.2.5 and 15.2.6. The laws 15.2.1, 15.2.2 and 15.4.1 are also relevant.
15.3.2 is for the purposes of paying a free kick for a throw, illegal handball or handing to another player.
You also need to read the definitions law, which is law 1.1.
Throw: shall be given its ordinary meaning, but also includes the act
of propelling the football with one or both hands in a scooping motion.
A Player does not throw the football if the Player hits, punches or taps
the football without taking possession of the football.
Handball: the act of holding the football in one hand and disposing of
the football by hitting it with the clenched fist of the other hand.
situations that don't make sense.
i) prior op, gets tackled, drops ball, play on
vs: ii) prior op, gets tackled with one hand pinned in tackle, drops ball, holding the ball
a) prior op, gets tackled, drops ball, play on
vs, (b) prior op, gets tackled, attempts to kick but it misses foot due to tackle, HTB
el scorcho - I think most footy fans want to see a situation where:
prior op, gets tackled, does not correctly dispose of ball = HTB, whether dropped, jarred out in tackle, failed effort to handpass or kick.
Knocking an arm or bumping is not a tackle.the (no prior op) should apply to (a) and (b). you've had prior opportunity, you've got tackled... should not matter if the ball gets knocked out you're already holding the ball.