Moved Thread Holding the ball

[gungho]

Ok. Been done to death but anyway…..the current holding the ball rule is absurd.
It is the hardest to adjudicate in footy and just needs to change. Too much murkiness with prior opportunity, insufficient attempt, incorrect disposal bla bla bla.
As much as we all want to give it to the umpires- nobody here could make the right decision all the time at speed and during a live game.
The answer is simple - if you are tackled and you have not kicked or handballed you are holding the ball.
Simple, and stops all confusion.

 

[Toump Ass]

I really love how the guy tackled shakes his legs and his arms like he's a big fat salmon that just landed on a pier, demonstrably punching the ball while staring at the umpire like "LOOK AT ALL THE EFFORT I'M MAKING TO DISPOSE OF THIS THING CORRECTLY! I'M TRYING I REALLY AM, GET IT AWAY FROM ME PLEASE!!!!"

So dumb.

I agree, the solution is pretty simple and it would probably speed up the game too.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Ok. Been done to death but anyway…..the current holding the ball rule is absurd.
It is the hardest to adjudicate in footy and just needs to change. Too much murkiness with prior opportunity, insufficient attempt, incorrect disposal bla bla bla.
As much as we all want to give it to the umpires- nobody here could make the right decision all the time at speed and during a live game.
The answer is simple - if you are tackled and you have not kicked or handballed you are holding the ball.
Simple, and stops all confusion.

So I'm trying to win the hard pill.. trying to make the play.. I'm flying in there.. brass balling it right.. surrounded by players.. immediately tackled.. buckley's chance of disposing of it.. free kick?

C'mon man.

 

[g_TRAIN]

So I'm trying to win the hard pill.. trying to make the play.. I'm flying in there.. brass balling it right.. surrounded by players.. immediately tackled.. buckley's chance of disposing of it.. free kick?

C'mon man.

Agreed completely it would penalize players who go for that ball and we don't want that. We also don't want to see more calls like this where he hasn't even had time to take possession properly let alone dispose of it and he is pinged.

WATCH: This could seriously be the worst 'holding the ball' ever paid

Dan Butler couldn't believe it- and neither could the Saints fans!

www.theroar.com.au

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Agreed completely it would penalize players who go for that ball and we don't want that. We also don't want to see more calls like this where he hasn't even had time to take possession properly let alone dispose of it and he is pinged.

WATCH: This could seriously be the worst 'holding the ball' ever paid

Dan Butler couldn't believe it- and neither could the Saints fans!

www.theroar.com.au

A player who thrives on winning the hard pill has got to think twice about brass balling it.. that's not fair at all. You're not only confusing him.. you're basically turning him into a gutless wonder. Destroying the game.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Actually paying incorrect disposal solves the HTB issue without reinventing the wheel

 

[The 747]

Balllllllllllllllll

 

[gungho]

Actually paying incorrect disposal solves the HTB issue without reinventing the wheel

Exactly!!! There should only be 1 rule and it is incorrect disposal. If you take possession and do not kick or handball you are pinged - regardless of prior opportunity. Good players will adapt, they know how to get their arms free to make a handball in congestion. If you can’t do this then don’t play midfield.

 

[gungho]

So I'm trying to win the hard pill.. trying to make the play.. I'm flying in there.. brass balling it right.. surrounded by players.. immediately tackled.. buckley's chance of disposing of it.. free kick?

C'mon man.

Exactly. It would be a free kick. Getting your arms free in congestion to make a handball is a skill that good players have. If you don’t have it - don’t play as an inside mid.

 

[Purple Suit]

Exactly!!! There should only be 1 rule and it is incorrect disposal. If you take possession and do not kick or handball you are pinged - regardless of prior opportunity. Good players will adapt, they know how to get their arms free to make a handball in congestion. If you can’t do this then don’t play midfield.

They changed it slightly, if you have one arm free then you need to dispose of it. Sort of hard as you can't hand pass it with one arm. That's why the umpire decided to ping Butler in that clip, although I think he didn't have possession to do it but it was very close.

Players are so quick these days, the opposition need to anticipate and start to tackle as possession is taking place or they will lose their opponent. It's bloody hard, simplifying the HTB rule just means no one try's to takes possession so there are more taps and punches until it clears congestion. I think it's fine and modifying it won't stop umpire mistakes.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Exactly. It would be a free kick. Getting your arms free in congestion to make a handball is a skill that good players have. If you don’t have it - don’t play as an inside mid.

What do you think the game will look like?

 

[Boxhead_31]

When did it change from the revised interpretation at the start of the season?

 

[theyellowsash]

So I'm trying to win the hard pill.. trying to make the play.. I'm flying in there.. brass balling it right.. surrounded by players.. immediately tackled.. buckley's chance of disposing of it.. free kick?

C'mon man.

then tap it out into space to a team mates advantage

 

[Shane Heard]

So I'm trying to win the hard pill.. trying to make the play.. I'm flying in there.. brass balling it right.. surrounded by players.. immediately tackled.. buckley's chance of disposing of it.. free kick?

C'mon man.

That’s called “ caught with the ball”

Otherwise known as “ holding the ball”

 

[ManInWhite]

Ok. Been done to death but anyway…..the current holding the ball rule is absurd.
It is the hardest to adjudicate in footy and just needs to change. Too much murkiness with prior opportunity, insufficient attempt, incorrect disposal bla bla bla.
As much as we all want to give it to the umpires- nobody here could make the right decision all the time at speed and during a live game.
The answer is simple - if you are tackled and you have not kicked or handballed you are holding the ball.
Simple, and stops all confusion.

I warned against this in another thread. You're running the risk of encouraging players to be second to the ball. Let some other nuffy try and make the play while you take the soft option and grab him and get a free kick. Could get uglier and need to be careful with rule tweaks that you don't make it worse by trying to improve it. Rules Committee do this all the time...

 

[gungho]

I warned against this in another thread. You're running the risk of encouraging players to be second to the ball. Let some other nuffy try and make the play while you take the soft option and grab him and get a free kick. Could get uglier and need to be careful with rule tweaks that you don't make it worse by trying to improve it. Rules Committee do this all the time...

Sorry but I don't buy this narrative. Players adapt. Some players (Will Brodie for example at Freo) have never been caught holding the ball - regardless of their prior opportunity. If you are a good player you learn to get your hands free. If a team of players want to be second to the ball they will lose more games than they win. (Aka, it won't be encouraged by coaches)

 

[radiojake]

This is from yesterday's St Kilda v Fremantle game

I do not understand how Jordan Clark

6

Jordan Clark

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.2

3star

K

10.4

4star

HB

1.8

2star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.4

4star

wasn't pinned for HTB - I don't care if he got a snick of the ball onto his boot, you can't tell me that he disposed that ball correctly

Some people have defended the umpire's decision - I don't get it - The next two calls, while there, are made to be absolute howler's considering the first one was missed - If the umpire was technically correct in not calling HTB because of the slightest touch of his foot, the rule has to be changed there

 

[eastfreo75]

This is from yesterday's St Kilda v Fremantle game

I do not understand how Jordan Clark wasn't pinned for HTB - I don't care if he got a snick of the ball onto his boot, you can't tell me that he disposed that ball correctly

Some people have defended the umpire's decision - I don't get it - The next two calls, while there, are made to be absolute howler's considering the first one was missed - If the umpire was technically correct in not calling HTB because of the slightest touch of his foot, the rule has to be changed there

 

[radiojake]

c'mon you can't tell me that constituted a kick - did he get a kick credited on his stat sheet?

 

[eastfreo75]

c'mon you can't tell me that constituted a kick - did he get a kick credited on his stat sheet?

You are saying it's 100% clear that it didn't hit the foot.

By the way, its an ineffective kick. If it hits the foot its a kick.

 

[radiojake]

I'm saying even if that touched the boot in that circumstance, you call HTB - it didn't even go 5 metres - I've seen players ride a tackle and get clear handballs away called for HTB because they took too long to do it - I just don't see how anyone can defend that Non-Call based on the tiniest possible amount of leather boot on ball you could ever get

I had no skin in this game, i was barracking for Freo, but you can't defend that call, and it coupled with the next 5 seconds completely ended the last bit of a contest that Saints were trying to mount

 

[DT_35]

That s*** is paid 99/100 even if it snicks the boot or leg and you all know it

 

[radiojake]

the more i re-watch it, the angrier I get, and that Stevic loser holy * you know he jerked off to that when he got home last night

 

[Gaspard]

It was outrageous that the umpire doubled down on his mistakes and paid 50 m for abuse. He caused the problem. Holding the ball was much better adjudicated in the Melbourne Geelong game. Nice and strict for the most part. The home crowd factor meant Geelong got the better of the error margins, but overall this is how I would like to see the rule enforced. Contrast the shambles of the Collingwood North Melbourne game, where there was endless leeway given.
Off topic, but what happened to the assurance we were given at the start of the year that players deliberately holding up play at marks and free kicks would be penalized? It is getting worse, not better.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Exactly!!! There should only be 1 rule and it is incorrect disposal. If you take possession and do not kick or handball you are pinged - regardless of prior opportunity. Good players will adapt, they know how to get their arms free to make a handball in congestion. If you can’t do this then don’t play midfield.

Back when I started playing (early 1970's - still had the diamond then!) , there was a rule called 'dropping the ball'.

As I remember, if you didn't get rid of it by either kicking or handballing the ball, you were pinged. This included if it got knocked out of your hands.

I don't recall the umpires ever saying 'holding the ball', it was always 'dropping the ball'.

So if you didn't kick or handball it, you were gone...