Certified Legendary Thread The Random Non Footy Chat Thread - General Non Footy talk

[deltablues]

[QUOTE="JB1975, post: 45770088, member: 160288"]I find it hard to recall a Golden Age where two opposing major parties (Labor or Liberal, Democrat or Republican) all sat around agreed upon some single notion of 'the common good', an Age where petty politics was put aside for a higher purpose. Major wars have often prompted a temporary respite (although WWI in Australia was probably the most divisive period of Australian political history), but politicians always resumed politicking soon enough, before as well as after the 1950s.[/QUOTE]

The concept of "common good" is inherent in a society which shares the same common values. All you are talking about is detail - not fundamental change.

It is not so much a question of sitting around the fire agreeing with each other and singing Kumbaya, but more of acknowledging the fact that without a viable opposition you have by default a dictatorship. That acknowledgement is one of the philosophical underpinnings of Democracy.

Perhaps I can use this analogy - in the law, the prosecutor and the defense are professionally obliged to do all they can for their client (state and individual) but they also have a duty to the court (i.e. the State) not to mislead the Court as to the fact situation. The duty not to mislead is paramount.

If they do not accept this constraint, then there is no rule of law. And by extrapolation of that analogy, no democracy.

 

[JB1975]

[QUOTE="JB1975, post: 45770088, member: 160288"]I find it hard to recall a Golden Age where two opposing major parties (Labor or Liberal, Democrat or Republican) all sat around agreed upon some single notion of 'the common good', an Age where petty politics was put aside for a higher purpose. Major wars have often prompted a temporary respite (although WWI in Australia was probably the most divisive period of Australian political history), but politicians always resumed politicking soon enough, before as well as after the 1950s.

The concept of "common good" is inherent in a society which shares the same common values. All you are talking about is detail - not fundamental change.

It is not so much a question of sitting around the fire agreeing with each other and singing Kumbaya, but more of acknowledging the fact that without a viable opposition you have by default a dictatorship. That acknowledgement is one of the philosophical underpinnings of Democracy.

Perhaps I can use this analogy - in the law, the prosecutor and the defense are professionally obliged to do all they can for their client (state and individual) but they also have a duty to the court (i.e. the State) not to mislead the Court as to the fact situation. The duty not to mislead is paramount.

If they do not accept this constraint, then there is no rule of law. And by extrapolation of that analogy, no democracy.[/QUOTE]

I'll try and adhere to the original point, which was thinking about the current disaffection with party politics. I'm quite aware of the principles of democratic government, including the need for parliamentary accountability and the presence of an opposition (although few constitutions have contemplated the presence and strength of political parties), but my suggestion is that petty politicking and pointscoring have been going on for quite a while. It is for this reason that people's disillusion may have some wider and more immediate reasons.

Some people (on the left and right) are evidently concerned about the force of the global economy and the related weakening of state power and the increasing reluctance of the state to intervene in the market. Others are concerned about the rise of what might be termed rights-based politics, by which different groups have sought to stake a greater social claim since the 1960s. In any case, there is a climate of political and economic uncertainty and a sense that politicians can't or won't address the issues, and on top of that you have an ultra-competitive media culture which seems determined to create the story as it is to simply report the story. It all adds up to a cycle of perpetual hostility towards political groupings which (in people's minds, rightly or wrongly) exist to swap power with one another.

 

[deltablues]

The concept of "common good" is inherent in a society which shares the same common values. All you are talking about is detail - not fundamental change.

It is not so much a question of sitting around the fire agreeing with each other and singing Kumbaya, but more of acknowledging the fact that without a viable opposition you have by default a dictatorship. That acknowledgement is one of the philosophical underpinnings of Democracy.

Perhaps I can use this analogy - in the law, the prosecutor and the defense are professionally obliged to do all they can for their client (state and individual) but they also have a duty to the court (i.e. the State) not to mislead the Court as to the fact situation. The duty not to mislead is paramount.

If they do not accept this constraint, then there is no rule of law. And by extrapolation of that analogy, no democracy.

I'll try and adhere to the original point, which was thinking about the current disaffection with party politics. I'm quite aware of the principles of democratic government, including the need for parliamentary accountability and the presence of an opposition (although few constitutions have contemplated the presence and strength of political parties), but my suggestion is that petty politicking and pointscoring have been going on for quite a while. It is for this reason that people's disillusion may have some wider and more immediate reasons.

Some people (on the left and right) are evidently concerned about the force of the global economy and the related weakening of state power and the increasing reluctance of the state to intervene in the market. Others are concerned about the rise of what might be termed rights-based politics, by which different groups have sought to stake a greater social claim since the 1960s. In any case, there is a climate of political and economic uncertainty and a sense that politicians can't or won't address the issues, and on top of that you have an ultra-competitive media culture which seems determined to create the story as it is to simply report the story. It all adds up to a cycle of perpetual hostility towards political groupings which (in people's minds, rightly or wrongly) exist to swap power with one another.[/QUOTE]

You make some good points and I fully agree with you.

 

[Anzacday]

Son of Brett Chalmers wins gold...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/rio-2016-kyle-chalmers-wins-gold-in-100m-free/7719910

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Census site still down.

Who knew there would be great demand around the 9th of August & beyond.

Our government at work.

 

[jmac70]

Census site still down.

Who knew there would be great demand around the 9th of August & beyond.

Our government at work.

It's ironic that their failure to invest in a decent NBN network has resulted in them being unable to administer a simple government responsibility.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

It's ironic that their failure to invest in a decent NBN network has resulted in them being unable to administer a simple government responsibility.

Also probably why we have to be herded like cattle at voting time instead of using the interwebs.

Our government at work.

 

[Magpie Girl]

Thread is now too big and is breaking Big Footy.
The Random Non Footy Chat Thread Part 2 starts here