Mega Thread The "Will GWS make it" megathread (NO similar threads will be allowed)
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I smell troll, after a grand total of 2 posts.
The only people insulted were the ones who wanted to be.
30 years later, the Swans have a core of fans who attend in numbers no greater than a middle Melbourne club, finances which always need assistance and hang on a knife's edge, and absolutely bugger all in the way of player development, if the fact that no NSW players were drafted at the end of 2012 (I think) is anything to go by...
So NSW is no mecca of footy, or even a remotely fertile ground to grow anything worthwhile on. There are millions of people in West Sydney - so what? Hardly any do, or ever will, follow the AFL in our lifetimes (well mine, anyway!)...anyone thinking this place will outstrip Tasmania in interest in the sport is an idiot...
However, it's all about tv. This is the value of Sydney and Brisbane, because while you can't get northerners to swap codes, and it's a stretch on many counts to get them to games (cost for families, competing codes far more intrinsic and entrenched, fickle attendance which dips below critical if the team doesn't win, revenue difficulties), it's much easier to get them watching on tv or at the very least channel surfing to the game. This is why there are two teams in each state, this is why their games monopolise certain timeslots (e.g. Saturday night), and this is why the networks pay zillions to get them. They know what brings in advertising revenue, even if the clubs themselves can't entice northerners to drag their lazy arses off the couch to go to games they struggle to afford entry to anyway...
This is their value to the AFL. The game isn't strong enough Australia wide to enjoy the luxury of every team in every state having equal abundance in support and resources (like the Yanks), so each team brings a different attraction to the table....some more than others, but no team is readily dispensable. The bucks that the northern teams bring via tv, however, keeps everyone else in business, so in answer to the question, GWS most certainly have a future in the AFL. It will be subsidised forever, and the likelihood of a home grown Western Sydney playing list winning a flag is zero, but noone's letting them die anytime soon...
So NSW is no mecca of footy, or even a remotely fertile ground to grow anything worthwhile on. There are millions of people in West Sydney - so what? Hardly any do, or ever will, follow the AFL in our lifetimes (well mine, anyway!)...anyone thinking this place will outstrip Tasmania in interest in the sport is an idiot...
However, it's all about tv. This is the value of Sydney and Brisbane, because while you can't get northerners to swap codes, and it's a stretch on many counts to get them to games (cost for families, competing codes far more intrinsic and entrenched, fickle attendance which dips below critical if the team doesn't win, revenue difficulties), it's much easier to get them watching on tv or at the very least channel surfing to the game. This is why there are two teams in each state, this is why their games monopolise certain timeslots (e.g. Saturday night), and this is why the networks pay zillions to get them. They know what brings in advertising revenue, even if the clubs themselves can't entice northerners to drag their lazy arses off the couch to go to games they struggle to afford entry to anyway...
This is their value to the AFL. The game isn't strong enough Australia wide to enjoy the luxury of every team in every state having equal abundance in support and resources (like the Yanks), so each team brings a different attraction to the table....some more than others, but no team is readily dispensable. The bucks that the northern teams bring via tv, however, keeps everyone else in business, so in answer to the question, GWS most certainly have a future in the AFL. It will be subsidised forever, and the likelihood of a home grown Western Sydney playing list winning a flag is zero, but noone's letting them die anytime soon...
Actually in the 2012 draft period 7 nsw players were picked up including the likes of Rampe, B Jack & Zac William who also picked up a rising star nom last year.
But nice try all the same.
I think GWS picked up 4 (?) Riverina boys...... Townsend, Barratt, WIlliams, Schulz
Typical thinking by many fans of the Melbourne based teams, trotting out excuses, excuses unable to see a positive for the game because they see the game by looking backwards, not forward.
Fickle crowds, that's an insult ... teams in Melbourne cant pull 20k crowds after 100+ years & they complain about a team in the toughest market in the country that is yet to play 100 games .... that cant be fair dinkum !
An independent club capable of standing on their own feet ... another muddle headed thought from a fan of a club that needed an AFL guarantee for the first time, and so many clubs around more than 100 years in financial difficulty in the context of GWS.
COLA is mentioned: try green eyed envy from a fan of a club on the slide as was demonstrated last weekend.
No problem at GWS IMHO, it will be a building block in the national comp in future years with the albatross around the AFLs neck being too many teams in Melbourne being denied by Melbourne based fans.
GO GIANTS !!
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There all from different draft periods with Barrett being our lastest draft pick up and coming from a good gene pool in being a cousin of both Breust and Trent Barrett.
I am unsure for the need for this threads to continue.
GWS are an easy target. There may very well be a strong case that Tasmania are very unfortunate to not have a team, given it is AFL belt and has had a few teams auction out games for a while now. The draft concessions they have received have seriously for the time being compromised the competition.
But the AFL has decided to target a large part of the Sydney region and good on those Sydney folk who have adopted them.
It is a real fallacy to look at a recent belting and say "see this team is never going to cut and look there are only 7,500 at the ground (actually I reckon its 5000 and many of them were given free tickets)." The media are lame in this regard. I am not dismissing their right to criticise a team performing badly but the story changes every week (so compare to round 1 when GWS beat Sydney).
GC have had their fare share of beltings too. And GWS will have some more beltings. But you have to be a real naive to write off their talent and potential based on some massive losses, which should be expected.
People say they will never have any members. This again is a premature perspective. The AFL have in no uncertain terms said this is a long term strategy. The crowd numbers are what you would expect at this time. It will take time for the brand to be promoted and the team will have to have a measure of success to grow its membership base but to write them off on and off the field is foolish.
GWS are also criticised for their recruiting. I think there is validity to the criticism, but it is over stated. They say CG targeted ready made stars and mature players GWS had too many youngsters plus guys in their twilight post 30s. But GC took on Power and Fraser. GWS took Palmer, Ward (their best get) and Davis (who I also think was an excellent pick up by them). Maybe GC did much better with Ablett, Harbrow, Rischitelli - but why is it surprising GC had the better of recruiting these kind of players when they had the first go to raid clubs? Clubs spent thousands researching ways to keep their players. Beside that Bock doesn't even get a game and that other former Brisbane player is gone. There is not the massive gap in recruiting mature players as is made out. I think they could have recruited a few more mature age players from the state leagues but apart from that their strategy is not that different to GC. And I think there are more than enough signs this team will be good.
The main challenge I see for GWS is not in the next 20 years. They will be ok in that time, with support from AFL and a strong list going forward. It will be after that time that we will see how they go. So after they have peaked, you'd expect they will have a down period like every club does, how will they fare in an area which is not traditional AFL belt? There will be some grinding times I believe for the club in years to come, but that doesn't necessarily mean the club will ever outright fail. If we really believe this is a certain fail, then maybe we don't actually believe AFL really is an awesome sport after all.
GWS are an easy target. There may very well be a strong case that Tasmania are very unfortunate to not have a team, given it is AFL belt and has had a few teams auction out games for a while now. The draft concessions they have received have seriously for the time being compromised the competition.
But the AFL has decided to target a large part of the Sydney region and good on those Sydney folk who have adopted them.
It is a real fallacy to look at a recent belting and say "see this team is never going to cut and look there are only 7,500 at the ground (actually I reckon its 5000 and many of them were given free tickets)." The media are lame in this regard. I am not dismissing their right to criticise a team performing badly but the story changes every week (so compare to round 1 when GWS beat Sydney).
GC have had their fare share of beltings too. And GWS will have some more beltings. But you have to be a real naive to write off their talent and potential based on some massive losses, which should be expected.
People say they will never have any members. This again is a premature perspective. The AFL have in no uncertain terms said this is a long term strategy. The crowd numbers are what you would expect at this time. It will take time for the brand to be promoted and the team will have to have a measure of success to grow its membership base but to write them off on and off the field is foolish.
GWS are also criticised for their recruiting. I think there is validity to the criticism, but it is over stated. They say CG targeted ready made stars and mature players GWS had too many youngsters plus guys in their twilight post 30s. But GC took on Power and Fraser. GWS took Palmer, Ward (their best get) and Davis (who I also think was an excellent pick up by them). Maybe GC did much better with Ablett, Harbrow, Rischitelli - but why is it surprising GC had the better of recruiting these kind of players when they had the first go to raid clubs? Clubs spent thousands researching ways to keep their players. Beside that Bock doesn't even get a game and that other former Brisbane player is gone. There is not the massive gap in recruiting mature players as is made out. I think they could have recruited a few more mature age players from the state leagues but apart from that their strategy is not that different to GC. And I think there are more than enough signs this team will be good.
The main challenge I see for GWS is not in the next 20 years. They will be ok in that time, with support from AFL and a strong list going forward. It will be after that time that we will see how they go. So after they have peaked, you'd expect they will have a down period like every club does, how will they fare in an area which is not traditional AFL belt? There will be some grinding times I believe for the club in years to come, but that doesn't necessarily mean the club will ever outright fail. If we really believe this is a certain fail, then maybe we don't actually believe AFL really is an awesome sport after all.
**** GWS! Look at those Panthers go!
GO PANFERS!!!
GO PANFERS!!!
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The only thing more pathetic than GWS is the opposition fans that take pleasure out of kicking them when they're down.
MightyPies1
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No-ones kicking them when they're down and certainly not me. As for the thread, some great posts, I can emphasize with the satisfaction of supporting a club from when it was established. I am a Melbourne Victory fan and watching them grow and develop is great fun!
Not sure you emphasize at all ....
... google it?You might note there is one view held in Melbourne that is not shared Australia wide.
Riccardo11
Cancelled
Only because the AFL actually wants them in the league!
There would be those at HQ who can't wait until certain Melbourne based clubs fall over so they can throw even more money and resources into a fluro orange colored rat hole in the name of "expansion".
As poorly managed as the NRL is, at least they respect and support their origins instead of activity trying to destroy them.
Riccardo11
Cancelled
Id rather be at the Lakeside watching South Melbourne and Fitzroy, but unlike the above none of things even exist any more.
Riccardo11
Cancelled
The Jets were excluded from the premiership due to their own financial problems and inability to attract players back when the league was nothing but Sydney based teams. If that had happened in 2003, and not 1983, when the league was national you might have a point.
If you are looking for someone to blame about North Sydney, look at Manly rather than the NRL, they were the ones who ended the merger and left the Bears out in the cold, not the league.
Riccardo,
You need to find the bloke who wrote "As poorly managed as the NRL is, at least they respect and support their origins instead of activity trying to destroy them." then.
I wouldn't really claim anyone drafted from the Riverina as successes for the AFL in Sydney/Western Sydney. Sure it's great for the area and good for the kids who stay in NSW particularly but their has been Aussie Rules footy clubs in those areas for 100 years.
The GWS preseason game in Wagga looked a real hit but it's not really growing the game just more boosting that area as one where AFL has always been an option.
TV viewers is the main priority with GWS. Boosting junior participation problem comes second with kids getting drafted being a massive success if it happens. Attendance third.
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membership figures have gone on a big upward spike across the competition since then so the comparison is not entirely valid.
GWS will be fine as they have AFL backing, but I'm not sure their playing list as as strong as the Suns. the biggest reason is the recruitment of Ablett and GWS' inability to land a big fish.
But the ratings in the northern states are still terrible. More people in Adelaide watch a SANFL game on TV than people watch an AFL game in Sydney. Why would advertisers keep paying when nobody is watching? In theory the TV revenue stuff makes sense, but the fact that people still aren't watching makes me wonder.
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Ablett may be the best player of the last 15 years, but one man doesn't make a side and Geelong winning the flag in 2011 proved that. Even if GC didn't have Ablett they were ahead of GWS this time last season.
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