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I thought GWS already were in the AFL?
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Mega Thread The "Will GWS make it" megathread (NO similar threads will be allowed)
- Thread starter MightyPies1
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Day games in the Alice, Night games in Darwin.
Loved that scenery outside the Traegar Park in that Port-Melbourne game... literally felt like outback footy.
Analysis is a little bit off there OP. Swans are going fine in the growth department, your anecdotal belief otherwise not withstanding.
In 2013 we reached our highest every recorded membership tally.
In 2014 so far we have beaten that tally easily.
Our last peak was in 99, and we're ahead of that mark by approx. 7k members and counting. I like to pay attention to crowd figures on wet days, and we appear to have 23k rusted on members who turn up even when it's hailing and when we're missing the eight. This is an increase of of over 200% on the rusted on supporter base who turned up religiously when we were cellar dwellers in the 90's.
GWS have started about where we were in 95/96. All they have are rusted on supporters now, as no one else is tempted to watch them flounder about in last place. Much like it was for the Swans.
But I have little doubt they'll have 20k members in short order (5-10 years). How many of them are rusted on is all part of the 20 year project.
In 2013 we reached our highest every recorded membership tally.
In 2014 so far we have beaten that tally easily.
Our last peak was in 99, and we're ahead of that mark by approx. 7k members and counting. I like to pay attention to crowd figures on wet days, and we appear to have 23k rusted on members who turn up even when it's hailing and when we're missing the eight. This is an increase of of over 200% on the rusted on supporter base who turned up religiously when we were cellar dwellers in the 90's.
GWS have started about where we were in 95/96. All they have are rusted on supporters now, as no one else is tempted to watch them flounder about in last place. Much like it was for the Swans.
But I have little doubt they'll have 20k members in short order (5-10 years). How many of them are rusted on is all part of the 20 year project.
The AFL will make sure that the Giants are around for the long term, whatever it takes. If that means pouring billions of dollars and giving them extra draft picks, then so be it. If it means a couple of Melbourne based clubs are lost along the way, then that will be seen as collateral damage to the long term goal of Australia wide AFL dominance.
However I believe that the AFL "jumped the shark" when they added a 17th and 18th expansion team. Adding 2 more teams has seriously diluted the talent level. There are too many players that are not ready for senior AFL football, or do not have the talent to play at such an elite level.
I have no problem having a team based on the Gold Coast as there is an existing Australian Rules culture in that area, and there are enough ex-pat Victorians living there to help the team survive and flourish. I still think that my team, the Bulldogs, should have grabbed the opportunity for long term survival and relocated to Metricon Stadium.
I don't think the AFL got it right locating an AFL team in the western suburbs of Sydney. I know a few people from that area (ex-pat Victorians) and they all say the same thing, and that is the locals love their league and their soccer, and their general attitude towards the AFL is as the punch line to a bad joke.
However I believe that the AFL "jumped the shark" when they added a 17th and 18th expansion team. Adding 2 more teams has seriously diluted the talent level. There are too many players that are not ready for senior AFL football, or do not have the talent to play at such an elite level.
I have no problem having a team based on the Gold Coast as there is an existing Australian Rules culture in that area, and there are enough ex-pat Victorians living there to help the team survive and flourish. I still think that my team, the Bulldogs, should have grabbed the opportunity for long term survival and relocated to Metricon Stadium.
I don't think the AFL got it right locating an AFL team in the western suburbs of Sydney. I know a few people from that area (ex-pat Victorians) and they all say the same thing, and that is the locals love their league and their soccer, and their general attitude towards the AFL is as the punch line to a bad joke.
Those extra two teams rather than costing billions, have actually added hundreds of millions to the League - most visible in the current tv rights deal alone. And rather than signalling the death knell of a couple of Victorian clubs as you imply, they've actually helped the cash flow of the League and allowed the Future Fund which is keeping those very clubs afloat to be possible.
The idea that the only AFL supporters in NSW are the scatterings of some old boys network of of ex-Victorians is a very outdated untruth BTW. Total myth.
It is true that there are a number of AFL supporters in Sydney that cannot stand the Swans and that many of them have attended the Giants games, though.
Perhaps that was the plan back when you changed name, and around the time North Melbourne also renamed themselves the Kangaroos.
But that time has passed.
But that time has passed.
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They'll be supported by the AFL until after their premiership flurry. The big test will come in the mid to late 20's when the bandwagoners jump off.
MightyPies1
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I'd say GWS are where you were at in 92/93/94 and that's being generous. I remember during those years against the big clubs like Collingwood and Essendon, crowds would still reach 15,000. So GWS don't even have a comparison to Sydney's darkest days. I'm still optimistic though.
92/93/94 as opposed to 95/96? Sure. Much of a muchness TBH. I was only talking memberships, not attendances.
We only had 6000 members in 95. GWS started with 10k and still are hovering around that mark.
Bandwagoners don't buy memberships. They get their mates to comp them free tickets. Then again I've been a bandwagoner since 96.
Theres threads do get tiresome but for the sake of context we already have 12, 928 members which is larger then what the suns had in total in there 3rd year. And as we have done for every year so far we are averaging 10,000 per home game, while the suns in there 3rd year averaged 13,000 which clearly isn't a big difference.
So as much as the doomsayers want to stick the boot in the truth is for team in non-traditional footy market we are meeting our targets and growing the game with regular school visits and networking with the community.
So as much as the doomsayers want to stick the boot in the truth is for team in non-traditional footy market we are meeting our targets and growing the game with regular school visits and networking with the community.
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The same was said about Freo, many times.
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Can we just merge all these identical threads which pop up every week or two?
A bloke who runs the new chemical company at my work, who is turns out a former Geelong and Sydney player, is the director for the concord giants in Western Sydney. He said when the club started there were only 3 players in the junior ranks. That was only 2 years ago. Now, since the giants came in and they changed the team name and colours, the team has grown 100%. Before they couldn't get any lads now they have ***** loads. It will take maybe 20-50 years but the market is huge.
Let's be honest rugby league is a crap sport
Let's be honest rugby league is a crap sport
JohnnyFontane90
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Richmond and Melbourne have had just as many. only port have rebuilt from the draft up the ladder. but even with them it was more about getting things right off the field first. the environment players are drafted into is far more important than how much raw talent they have..
HBF
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We were coming from a long long way back and I reckon we peaked with our current list back in 2011 when we were a kick away from a PF.
A few bad years at the draft table (Lucas, Watson, Bootsma) and we're struggling again.
Environment is important.
Richmond have not had as many very high draft picks as Carlton and Melbourne. In fact they are often criticised for finishing 9th which backs this up.
In any event, by referencing teams that have had high draft picks but that have not succeeded you back up my argument. The difference with Carlton is that winning a flag in 1995 is relatively recent but it is now getting further and further away (20 years this year - a whole generation) and that winning environment is slipping into oblivion.
The current day AFL is the juggernaut of Australian sport. They will keep GWS afloat as long as they need to before they can do it for themselves. If they can't ever do it for themselves the AFL may let them go, but that wouldn't be for 20 years at least. The Giants are here to stay.
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Hawthorn did. Anyway you can't compare any side to GWS bar Gold Coast because no team has had anything close to the access of taLent as these teams have
True. But no teams have faced the structural hurdles to start up like they've had. Wouldn't be too many sides on history that had to start from literally nothing. Not even a paper clip.
The talent factor is a pretty ephemeral benefit though. An established club could easily win a Premiership with a fraction of that talent coming into an existing system. But for them with literally NO pre-existing club structures, it might only guarrantee them a medium term competitiveness. Nothing more.
Top picks are great on paper. But this advantage will pass like a hot flash as Free Agency, Equalisation, and the impossibility of holding an entire list of stars together will inevitably begin to bite.
They might have drafted well but nothing will prevent a number of those players being lost to established clubs anyway as their value on the open market builds.
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I would argue that the Swans have not really developed the Riverina, the Riverina was developed in the 1880/1890's, some of the clubs playing around Wagga are that old.
FWIW the Giants ( in 3 or 4 years) have pulled more players out of the Riverina than what the Swans have in 30 years.
I would say IMO that the Giants have done more to develop the Riverina in 4 years than the Swans did in 30.
The Giants have a playing deal with the Wagga council, to play a game in Wagga every year.
The Giants sponsored and started another junior club in Griffith, in oppostion to the Griffith Swans.
The Giants have a deal to play 3 games a year with the ACT Government.
The Giants have a number of Riverina junior development squads
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And that's the exact arrogant attitude that GWS have displayed in Western Sydney that has rubbed the locals the wrong way.
Come on man. They haven't displayed any semblance of arrogance. Sydney's league loving media might call it a war and piss in their readers pockets, but Australian rules footy will always be better.
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