Analysis Tom Mitchell

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bungee said:
Mitchell's fan base runs way ahead of his abilities. He's a good in and under player, good with his hands (compared to his feet). Too slow to play outside and can't take a contested grab. I expect that's what Horse sees - plenty of room for improvement, and why he'll persist to develop his strengths and work on his weaknesses. In a few years Mitchell might even become as good as some on this thread think he is now.
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k
 
Spoke to a mate of mine at Etihad on Saturday, who is a Melbourne-based member.

Told me he saw Tommy standing in the rain after a Swans coaching clinic for kids following the Melbourne game a few weeks back. Tommy needed a lift to Lakeside Oval, so my mate offered him one. They got talking and revealed the following:

- He stated that there is no way he is going to give up his spot in the firsts
- He said he loves the group and the club and there is NO WAY he was even considering a move back to WA or to Carlton/another Melb club.

So whatever you think of him, he aint going anywhere!!
 

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bungee said:
Oh, that's a reliable source
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Its just fact statistically he is number 1

He obviously not our best midfielder at the moment and thats not what im saying.

But he is clearly an excellent player yet spoken about by an odd minority as though he is barely capable of being in the seniors, Horse has him on a bit or a trial.

He is one of our most important players right now
 
Number37 said:
Right now yeah, whilst we have the week off and he can't up & under it straight to the opposition. ;)

Next week when we play the Tiggy's he will be about our 15-20th most important.
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name the 15 players better than Tom Mitchell in the side right now then
 
Sir Swans said:
name the 15 players better than Tom Mitchell in the side right now then
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You said 'more important' not 'better'.
We have no backup for nearly every other player, a few of the kids can rotate sure, but Mitchell is almost the only one with a ready made replacement in the 2's.
 
Sir Swans said:
Its just fact statistically he is number 1

He obviously not our best midfielder at the moment and thats not what im saying.

But he is clearly an excellent player yet spoken about by an odd minority as though he is barely capable of being in the seniors, Horse has him on a bit or a trial.

He is one of our most important players right now
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Come on SS. Champion Data is not a reliable source. Stats mean little. Take for example Goodes in 3rd quarter v. Roos. 2 goals from i) positioning and burst speed & ii) defensive pressure. Just 2 touches but they occurred when North were coming back strongly, against the run of play and both goals superbly executed.

I think Mitchell's a v.good player (I don't go in for the denigrating players with the sort of s**t I hear for guys like Shaw) but remember he struggled for a long time to get a game in seniors (I know the less informed blame Horse for a 'conspiracy' but that's crap). He's in now as he worked hard and earned the spot. It's logical, natural, that Horse would have set him targets and would expect him to improve his game further. For a start, Mitchell needs to get first use of the ball at centre clearances. You like stats ? Well we've dropped right off in clearances since Mitchell came in. He needs to work on his pace, as a couple of times the ball was kicked to space in front of him to his advantage on the weekend but the opposition closed faster and he's not a good contested mark. He needs to pick up his kicking, use the time he has and hit targets. His tank has improved, his defensive work is good. I like the guy and I think he deserves the spot. I also recognise that Bird is playing well enough in the NEAFL to step straight in. It's not a bad thing. We have great depth in that position. In 2013 we would have killed to have a spare midfielder.

You're saying Mitchell is our number 1 ranked midfielder. I'm saying he's not our best, that he has things to improve in his game but if he does he could be the player that you and some others already think he is. How is that saying he's barely capable of being in the seniors ?
 
Number37 said:
You said 'more important' not 'better'.
We have no backup for nearly every other player, a few of the kids can rotate sure, but Mitchell is almost the only one with a ready made replacement in the 2's.
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Ok name the 15 more important then. Genuine interest on who ranks higher to you
 

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bungee said:
Come on SS. Champion Data is not a reliable source. Stats mean little. Take for example Goodes in 3rd quarter v. Roos. 2 goals from i) positioning and burst speed & ii) defensive pressure. Just 2 touches but they occurred when North were coming back strongly, against the run of play and both goals superbly executed.

I think Mitchell's a v.good player (I don't go in for the denigrating players with the sort of s**t I hear for guys like Shaw) but remember he struggled for a long time to get a game in seniors (I know the less informed blame Horse for a 'conspiracy' but that's crap). He's in now as he worked hard and earned the spot. It's logical, natural, that Horse would have set him targets and would expect him to improve his game further. For a start, Mitchell needs to get first use of the ball at centre clearances. You like stats ? Well we've dropped right off in clearances since Mitchell came in. He needs to work on his pace, as a couple of times the ball was kicked to space in front of him to his advantage on the weekend but the opposition closed faster and he's not a good contested mark. He needs to pick up his kicking, use the time he has and hit targets. His tank has improved, his defensive work is good. I like the guy and I think he deserves the spot. I also recognise that Bird is playing well enough in the NEAFL to step straight in. It's not a bad thing. We have great depth in that position. In 2013 we would have killed to have a spare midfielder.

You're saying Mitchell is our number 1 ranked midfielder. I'm saying he's not our best, that he has things to improve in his game but if he does he could be the player that you and some others already think he is. How is that saying he's barely capable of being in the seniors ?
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Champion data is not a reliable source? Then what is? Stats are not everything but cmon they mean something especially for a midfielder and i think being the number one ranked mid in a strong midfield, in a side sitting second is a big tick. When it suits you, you present Shaws stats and efficiency and so on, but now stats hold little to no weight? You are more inconsistent than Shawries kicking

I agree re horse, its fun to joke and kid as to why Mitchell was not selected, it did seem a bit too long and odd at times, but Horse has been good at making calls as a rule, even his bigger critics would have to concede this point.

I dont like stats, they are handy and they were relevant as i explained above. Our movement in clearance differential is actually insignificant since Mitchell came into the side. Furthermore why is a drop off in clearances on the youngster into the side? Would it not be more on a guy like Kennedy who has dropped a but of form recently?

Bird is simply not as good as player as Mitchell, not sure why he comes up so often

On the last point there is no way Mitchell is our best midfielder currently
 
Sir Swans said:
Ok name the 15 more important then. Genuine interest on who ranks higher to you
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Importance based on the impact on the team of them going down injured (not necessarily on their ability)

Our back 7 as a unit (incl. Reid) - any change could affect the balance of a fantastic defensive unit
Macca - irreplacable
JPK - irreplaceable
Parker - 'nuff said
Tippet - we have no other key forward/2nd ruck option
Pyke - our number one ruck by a good length
Buddy - derrr
Jetta - X factor
Hanners - our top midfielder
Jack/Goodes - could replace one but not both
Rohan - added X factor

Mitchell - Bird not exactly like for like but on balance would fill the hole with less negative impact
 
bungee said:
Importance based on the impact on the team of them going down injured (not necessarily on their ability)

Our back 7 as a unit (incl. Reid) - any change could affect the balance of a fantastic defensive unit
Macca - irreplacable
JPK - irreplaceable
Parker - 'nuff said
Tippet - we have no other key forward/2nd ruck option
Pyke - our number one ruck by a good length
Buddy - derrr
Jetta - X factor
Hanners - our top midfielder
Jack/Goodes - could replace one but not both
Rohan - added X factor

Mitchell - Bird not exactly like for like but on balance would fill the hole with less negative impact
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Hope buddy is not in order he is clearly one

Interesting ive never actually considered the list, i was genuinely interested in the answer
 
Sir Swans said:
Hope buddy is not in order he is clearly one

Interesting ive never actually considered the list, i was genuinely interested in the answer
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No particular order. Probably a bit simplistic too as the impact may be for only a couple of weeks. We could for example move McGlynn forward and give Parker more time in mids, throw Lloyd in the mix and so on. I get why Horse has put so much pressure on the team to be flexible but if he has to do a significant shuffle of the cards then we're exposed until he can bed the team down. That's why I don't think he'd touch Mitchell unless he had a serious drop in form (unlikely) or injury. The balance is good at the moment. Bird is stiff as he's a much better player than some give him credit for but the reality is he's not getting a game in that position until something changes to create an opening. He won't be able to force one but it looks like he's working hard to make the most of any opportunity.
 
bungee said:
No particular order. Probably a bit simplistic too as the impact may be for only a couple of weeks. We could for example move McGlynn forward and give Parker more time in mids, throw Lloyd in the mix and so on. I get why Horse has put so much pressure on the team to be flexible but if he has to do a significant shuffle of the cards then we're exposed until he can bed the team down. That's why I don't think he'd touch Mitchell unless he had a serious drop in form (unlikely) or injury. The balance is good at the moment. Bird is stiff as he's a much better player than some give him credit for but the reality is he's not getting a game in that position until something changes to create an opening. He won't be able to force one but it looks like he's working hard to make the most of any opportunity.
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Should drop anyone with a sudden drop in form ideally

Are you on holidays or something?
 
bungee said:
No particular order. Probably a bit simplistic too as the impact may be for only a couple of weeks. We could for example move McGlynn forward and give Parker more time in mids, throw Lloyd in the mix and so on. I get why Horse has put so much pressure on the team to be flexible but if he has to do a significant shuffle of the cards then we're exposed until he can bed the team down. That's why I don't think he'd touch Mitchell unless he had a serious drop in form (unlikely) or injury. The balance is good at the moment. Bird is stiff as he's a much better player than some give him credit for but the reality is he's not getting a game in that position until something changes to create an opening. He won't be able to force one but it looks like he's working hard to make the most of any opportunity.
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Do you think Bird will look elsewhere if he doesn't crack into the team by the end of the year?
 
Sir Swans said:
Ok name the 15 more important then. Genuine interest on who ranks higher to you
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Might be easier to name the others (Less important)
Reid. Replaceable but has been really good since he found form.
Any of the kids (Harry, Robbo, Lloyd) because they can essentially replace each other.

For me our most important player is Reg. We can win without Buddy & Tippo ( like 2012), we can throw anyone in the ruck (Drex) but our backline ( & back-ups) is too small to cover the loss of Reg. Someone would need to take a big step to fill his shoes.
 
Number37 said:
Might be easier to name the others (Less important)
Reid. Replaceable but has been really good since he found form.
Any of the kids (Harry, Robbo, Lloyd) because they can essentially replace each other.

For me our most important player is Reg. We can win without Buddy & Tippo ( like 2012), we can throw anyone in the ruck (Drex) but our backline ( & back-ups) is too small to cover the loss of Reg. Someone would need to take a big step to fill his shoes.
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Most important player probably deserves its own thread
 
Sir Swans said:
Champion data is not a reliable source? Then what is? Stats are not everything but cmon they mean something especially for a midfielder and i think being the number one ranked mid in a strong midfield, in a side sitting second is a big tick. When it suits you, you present Shaws stats and efficiency and so on, but now stats hold little to no weight? You are more inconsistent than Shawries kicking

I agree re horse, its fun to joke and kid as to why Mitchell was not selected, it did seem a bit too long and odd at times, but Horse has been good at making calls as a rule, even his bigger critics would have to concede this point.

I dont like stats, they are handy and they were relevant as i explained above. Our movement in clearance differential is actually insignificant since Mitchell came into the side. Furthermore why is a drop off in clearances on the youngster into the side? Would it not be more on a guy like Kennedy who has dropped a but of form recently?

Bird is simply not as good as player as Mitchell, not sure why he comes up so often

On the last point there is no way Mitchell is our best midfielder currently
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You're not gonna win this argument, it's impossible when your words are twisted around by others. The reason? They have no argument! Stats don't lie mate, use Champion Data (it's based on, wait for it...stats!). Good luck son!
 
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