Tom Mitchell's kicking...

[Tanami]

Maybe start with the facts.

 

[The hands of stone]

I get more frustrated that
A- he calls for the ball when he probably shouldnt
B- we give him the ball when we shouldnt

His kicking is what it is, we know it , he knows it and opposition know it . He shouldnt be completing possesion chains for us.

 

[HairyO]

At one stage yesterday that Pies had something like 53 points and 46 were from turnovers, most of which were our pretty simple mistakes rather than their brilliant play. It's losing us plenty.

And in the games we have won this year we smashed them on scores from turnovers. Sam is very keen for the team to keep pushing with the same approach whether it works or fails.

If people think back to 2005 Clarko did exactly the same thing. He had a plan for what the team would do and made them stick to that plan no matter what.

It ended up working brilliantly. We will see what happens with Sam's plan.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

And in the games we have won this year we smashed them on scores from turnovers. Sam is very keen for the team to keep pushing with the same approach whether it works or fails.

If people think back to 2005 Clarko did exactly the same thing. He had a plan for what the team would do and made them stick to that plan no matter what.

It ended up working brilliantly. We will see what happens with Sam's plan.

Agree but Sam has also said that far more than Clarko, who had a focus on improving your weakness, players should focus on and play to their strengths. Therefore, Tom should not be running past for a handball when we are 75 metres from goal, when guys Wingard, Sicily, Morrison and co have the ball in hand.

 

[MrPremiership]

Maybe start with the facts.

 

[Aramis]

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No ones taking history away from him - but times change.

I dont think he should be reserved for particular criticism (some of which on here is really harsh) but either, he isn't the same player, or if he is ,the game changed around him/oppo figured him out and made him less effective.

 

[perrdan86]

If you class Tom an "elite player"

What is P Cripps who has kicked 15 goals this season and dominated ?

Tom is NOT elite ....your kidding yourself.

Early days of Clarko you couldn't get a game unless you could kick and hit targets.

Mitchell came into the club when we were desperate for some Class.

Clarko's rulebook went out the window when we couldn't land any FA.

I think he was playing at an elite level..I mean he won a brownlow... All Aus...

But has not been this year... and probably the last one or two.

He is probably still an elite clearance player. But not by foot disposal. His ability to get the ball to the outside from the inside is most likely still elite, when given the opportunity to play that a primary inside mid.

I think players can be elite in different ways so to just compare him to Cripps and say he's not elite isn't quite right.

 

[cryptor]

He's still an elite player, but his kicking and running speed is a huge weakness of his. Something that wasn't an issue with the way Clarko had us playing when he first arrived. There was a lot of quick handballing (one of his biggest strengths) and slowing the game down by playing the boundary and locking the ball into the forward line which hid the fact that he didn't cover ground quickly.

Now we have Sam and he's clearly got a strategy that values fast ball movement by foot through the corridor, set up by counter attacks from intercepted balls in the back half. It's pretty much the complete opposite and it's no surprise the midfielder who is looking so good playing it is Newcombe who has a deceptive amount of running power (both speed and endurance) and can kick it 50+ off a step when needed.

In short, Mitchell is still very much an elite player, but the new game plan under Sam doesn't utilise his strengths very often and can often expose his weaknesses.

 

[MrPremiership]

No ones taking history away from him - but times change.

I dont think he should be reserved for particular criticism (some of which on here is really harsh) but either, he isn't the same player, or if he is ,the game changed around him/oppo figured him out and made him less effective.

He's spending a lot of time playing out of position to help with the new brigade. His role has changed. He is still an elite player. His strengths and weaknesses have not changed

 

[MrPremiership]

He's still an elite player, but his kicking and running speed is a huge weakness of his. Something that wasn't an issue with the way Clarko had us playing when he first arrived. There was a lot of quick handballing (one of his biggest strengths) and slowing the game down by playing the boundary and locking the ball into the forward line which hid the fact that he didn't cover ground quickly.

Now we have Sam and he's clearly got a strategy that values fast ball movement by foot through the corridor, set up by counter attacks from intercepted balls in the back half. It's pretty much the complete opposite and it's no surprise the midfielder who is looking so good playing it is Newcombe who has a deceptive amount of running power (both speed and endurance) and can kick it 50+ off a step when needed.

In short, Mitchell is still very much an elite player, but the new game plan under Sam doesn't utilise his strengths very often and can often expose his weaknesses.

Think how valuable he'd be in a Richmond or Brisbane midfield right now.

 

[TassieGrown]

Anyone else increasingly frustrated by Mitchell's inability to hit a low flat pass? Everything seems to be a 9 iron if longer than 35 metres, often sitting on the head of the player he is kicking to, resulting in an oppo mark and/or our player getting crunched.

I get it that all players have different strengths and weakness, but how many times would he have had to kick 40+ metres in training drills but is still unable to his a low flat pass that travels quickly.

Grrrrr.

This is why he doesn’t get tagged to often now, opponents are happy for him to get it 30 odd times as they can easily pressure him due to his lack of leg speed which forces the old dump kick.

When it’s given back more often not why stop him getting it to much, similar player to Dylan Shiel.

would be a far greater asset if we had skilful mids around him but sadly we don’t.

He is a keeper for me.

 

[cryptor]

Think how valuable he'd be in a Richmond or Brisbane midfield right now.

If they're smart they'd offer their first rounder for him and us covering part of his salary. Win-win-win. We get another first, they get an elite mid who fits their game style, and Tom gets his best chance at a flag since 2016.

 

[MrPremiership]

If they're smart they'd offer their first rounder for him and us covering part of his salary. Win-win-win. We get another first, they get an elite mid who fits their game style, and Tom gets his best chance at a flag since 2016.

Something they should have tried last trade period too.....

 

[burner1]

If they're smart they'd offer their first rounder for him and us covering part of his salary. Win-win-win. We get another first, they get an elite mid who fits their game style, and Tom gets his best chance at a flag since 2016.

If no one offered a first last year won’t happen this year.

 

[lyger]

He's still an elite player, but his kicking and running speed is a huge weakness of his. Something that wasn't an issue with the way Clarko had us playing when he first arrived. There was a lot of quick handballing (one of his biggest strengths) and slowing the game down by playing the boundary and locking the ball into the forward line which hid the fact that he didn't cover ground quickly.

Now we have Sam and he's clearly got a strategy that values fast ball movement by foot through the corridor, set up by counter attacks from intercepted balls in the back half. It's pretty much the complete opposite and it's no surprise the midfielder who is looking so good playing it is Newcombe who has a deceptive amount of running power (both speed and endurance) and can kick it 50+ off a step when needed.

In short, Mitchell is still very much an elite player, but the new game plan under Sam doesn't utilise his strengths very often and can often expose his weaknesses.

I don’t know if the stats would support this, but it seems his shorter kicks are increasingly ineffective and getting intercepted more as well.

Not because the actual kicks are bad (execution) but because they were ‘not on’ (decision making) which would be even more concerning.

 

[Brant]

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[Brant]

If no one offered a first last year won’t happen this year.

Last year was weird, man.

Clubs had reduced lists & tighter salary caps from covid-19; &, there was so much uncertainty as to how 2022 would look.

Conditions ruined the '1st Round Trade' market.

As MrPremiership & cryptor said, he's still elite - his game is just not 100% aligned to the style we're trying to build*. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be at other clubs.

*His inside game could be exactly what we're crying out for in 2-3 years, but right now it appears to hinder us more than it helps.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Think someone i was talking to said he has a physical inability to kick it low and flat and hard, and lacks penetration, but also physical (speed).

He's never gonna be that but i feel for the most part he's been good at either kicking it long (where a bail out or target would be) or being able to find short kicks, he's at his best when he's winning it in the middle driving it out and handballing to runners, he's got a good defensive game around the ball and his tank is pretty good.

People seem to overhate his kicking aswell, he's not someone who's a genuine butcher tho, think the stat from (2021) was that he has the 2nd best kicking efficiency in the comp among inside mids bar Macrae who spends upwards of 20% less time as a CBA midfielder.

The main ones that annoyed me yesterday were ones that weren't always his fault, he was kicking it long as he'd be instructed to and most people want him to, but it was more often than not a 1on3. Collingwood setup super well and we weren't there or close, all flooding back.

He only had 9 CBAs yesterday which is as low as i've ever seen from him aswell, still was solid but not at his best like he was against Brisbane.

But again on his kicking, it isn't a strength but he's managed it pretty well, at times it can get frustrating but i get as frustrated with Worpel trying to bullet pass it 60m trying to lace someone out and missing them by 20 metres.

It seems people can't ever be happy with him tho, if he's handballing and constantly keeping it going with runners going by he's "not damaging" and people are asking him to stop "******* around with the ball" and to "just kick it forward" and when he does, he gets s**t for that.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Don't let Dom see this thread. He won't allow anyone to criticise Tom.

I have to say, very good footballer who definitely helps us in areas we struggle with but his kicking and decisions at times does frustrate me quite a bit.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Haha, it's not about criticising someone. It's about actually criticising them. And not just bashing them without a point.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

If you class Tom an "elite player"

What is P Cripps who has kicked 15 goals this season and dominated ?

Tom is NOT elite ....your kidding yourself.

Early days of Clarko you couldn't get a game unless you could kick and hit targets.

Mitchell came into the club when we were desperate for some Class.

Clarko's rulebook went out the window when we couldn't land any FA.

Cripps isn't a good kick either LOL, Cripps is a 195cm bull tho and can go forward and take marks. He and Titch are completely different.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

No ones taking history away from him - but times change.

I dont think he should be reserved for particular criticism (some of which on here is really harsh) but either, he isn't the same player, or if he is ,the game changed around him/oppo figured him out and made him less effective.

He's playing a completely different role. People either don't realise this or people are oblivious to it. He had 9 CBAs yesterday, 9!! it's as low as i've seen for a while.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

He's still an elite player, but his kicking and running speed is a huge weakness of his. Something that wasn't an issue with the way Clarko had us playing when he first arrived. There was a lot of quick handballing (one of his biggest strengths) and slowing the game down by playing the boundary and locking the ball into the forward line which hid the fact that he didn't cover ground quickly.

Now we have Sam and he's clearly got a strategy that values fast ball movement by foot through the corridor, set up by counter attacks from intercepted balls in the back half. It's pretty much the complete opposite and it's no surprise the midfielder who is looking so good playing it is Newcombe who has a deceptive amount of running power (both speed and endurance) and can kick it 50+ off a step when needed.

In short, Mitchell is still very much an elite player, but the new game plan under Sam doesn't utilise his strengths very often and can often expose his weaknesses.

It's not just the gameplan, Mitchell isn't being used as a genuine midfielder anymore, so he's not only not able to use his strengths in clearances, contested ball, extracting. But he's having to play more to his weaknesses, idk if this is by design to improve Mitchell but we know when Toms at his best he's playing more than 9 CBAs in the midfield. Think Brisbane/Geelong games. Wasn't an issue in the wet and instead was the best (Geelong) but in the Brisbane game it was an end to end quick game and he was still one of the best, so it's not just "The gameplan".

 

[Dewyyyyy]

This is why he doesn’t get tagged to often now, opponents are happy for him to get it 30 odd times as they can easily pressure him due to his lack of leg speed which forces the old dump kick.

When it’s given back more often not why stop him getting it to much, similar player to Dylan Shiel.

would be a far greater asset if we had skilful mids around him but sadly we don’t.

He is a keeper for me.

Shiel? HAHAHAHA

 

[hawks1998]

Last year was weird, man.

Clubs had reduced lists & tighter salary caps from covid-19; &, there was so much uncertainty as to how 2022 would look.

Conditions ruined the '1st Round Trade' market.

As MrPremiership & cryptor said, he's still elite - his game is just not 100% aligned to the style we're trying to build*. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be at other clubs.

*His inside game could be exactly what we're crying out for in 2-3 years, but right now it appears to hinder us more than it helps.

Will be interesting to see if there is any interest from other clubs this year

 

[cryptor]

It's not just the gameplan, Mitchell isn't being used as a genuine midfielder anymore, so he's not only not able to use his strengths in clearances, contested ball, extracting. But he's having to play more to his weaknesses, idk if this is by design to improve Mitchell but we know when Toms at his best he's playing more than 9 CBAs in the midfield. Think Brisbane/Geelong games. Wasn't an issue in the wet and instead was the best (Geelong) but in the Brisbane game it was an end to end quick game and he was still one of the best, so it's not just "The gameplan".

I think it's part: his strengths don't align with how our midfield needs to play going forward - part: he's still here and too good not to play seniors - part: he's still a bloody good player and will find a way to be among the best performers even if it's perhaps sometimes at the expense of the way we should be playing.